A polite clarification regarding singularities and the common mistake repeated by creationists.....

crazyewok

Laykilla

You can't prove something DOESN'T exist; you can only prove something DOES exist, and until it's been proven to exist, it's not a fact. That's how facts work.

And last time I checked you can prove anything thing Pre universe therefore all theorys are valid until someone comes up with more data.

edit on 13-1-2014 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Ok we can prove the big bang did happen we can see that through background radiation.We know this occurred no question. Though i hate the term big bang because there wasnt an explosion it was an expansion of space. Ans we also know space is expanding we observe this by red shift in the universe. So now we are at the point of the singularity but in itself people see this wrong by reading through here people seem to think it was a very compressed mass of matter. It wasnt because you really cant have matter compressed into a point without space. Three scientists by the names Steven Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose expanded on Einstein's theory of relativity and included measurements of space time. The singularity didnt appear in space but space was created inside of it. This is why it wasn't a singularity like people tend to think of them.Sorry just seen some of the stuff and i got irritated anyway back to the topic now lets be honest any discussion of the Big Bang theory would be incomplete without asking the question, what about God? As a scientist you want to explore all possibilities. For example if we traveled to an alien world and we found something we couldnt identify the first thing we would want to know is did something create this or is it natural.

That being said Lets explore this for a second we know the universe had a beginning or we wouldnt be here. We also know it took place outside of the natural realm.Seeing as i explained earlier space didnt exist. This fact begs the question is there anything else which exists outside of the natural realm? We know there was a beginning what was first cause? Could it be god? See we have evidence something exists outside the natural realm or we wouldnt be here. Now people are going to scream and yell this isnt science well thats not true it is and we call it cosmogony. Cosmogony is specifically the study of the origins of the universe and that means nothing can be ruled out if there is a possibility it occurred that is science. Now you can argue we havnt seen god we havnt heard him but that wouldnt be unusual if he was outside our known universe would it? I hate when people try to deal in absolutes there is no absolutes life isnt black and white in any situation there are multiple paths.

Now we cant say god created the universe but on the flip side we cant say he didnt either. So the argument is silly until more evidence presents itself like we can figure out what does exist outside our universe for example.Im the first one to say we dont need god to explain how the stuff around us works being an atheist. But i also try to maintain an open mind and at least try to stay intellectually honest. Until the questions i asked which by the way i have no answer to are answered then yes God could exist.

reply to post by crazyewok


So the Big Bang may be an acceptable beginning for people who do not believe in God, but there are other details that can be considered to make a leap to faith-
Morality, spirituality, prophecy, perfection, and all other unseen forces. Basically the knowledge of good and evil.

reply to post by PerfectAnomoly


I think the problem most nay-Sayers have, is that we assume we know. When all it is, is best guess. I would just like some intellectual honestly, and an open minded congregation.

reply to post by dragonridr


Star for you, for putting it into terms most can understand, people often use their math competency as a bludgeon, or a tool to massage their own ego. Not everyone 'gets' it. Some people simply feel more intuitively. That being said, it seems to me that science and theology are both trying to describe the same things. It's the hostility displayed by some of the more scientifically minded members that really get old. Not that both sides don't display ignorance.

To those not-theists, I ask; What made the singularity? Would you not describe the singularity as all that was, and all that would ever be? Is that not God then? I simply want to know where so much anger comes from... I think it stems from not knowing. The frustration felt when people realize they don't have all the answers, and a lot of ego. Lots and lots.

PerfectAnomoly
reply to post by swanne

 

Well... logic would suggest that another universe existed prior to the forming of the singularity that spewed forth our own universe.


PA

No it wouldn't.

Chronogoblin
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Star for you, for putting it into terms most can understand, people often use their math competency as a bludgeon, or a tool to massage their own ego. Not everyone 'gets' it. Some people simply feel more intuitively. That being said, it seems to me that science and theology are both trying to describe the same things. It's the hostility displayed by some of the more scientifically minded members that really get old. Not that both sides don't display ignorance.

To those not-theists, I ask; What made the singularity? Would you not describe the singularity as all that was, and all that would ever be? Is that not God then? I simply want to know where so much anger comes from... I think it stems from not knowing. The frustration felt when people realize they don't have all the answers, and a lot of ego. Lots and lots.

All we know is something really strange is outside of our universe existing in a dimension of both sight and sound. Oh wait wrong show any way there is something existing outside space which is fascinating when you think about it.