Breaking Free of the Cave

Words are not information, they are representations of it. By assigning representations to information (defining) you are restricting that information (confining). I've spent a long time trying to put into words how I can do math and other analysis without conscious thought, and this is it. When you reject the representations the information moves on it's own. The way you define the world is what holds you down, blind to all but the shadows on the wall. Your shackles are your own creation and only you have the power to release them. Once those restraints are removed the questions answer themselves. All you have to do is let go.

Or, to put it a bit more poetically:

"Give away the stone, let the waters kiss and trans-mutate these leaden grudges into gold."

Often words are the opposite or restrictions.

Words infuse the imagination with the seeds of invention and insight.

Words give freedom with their transference of idea and wisdom, the teaching of information and inspiring the mind.

Words are more than mere sounds from the mouths of physical beings.

Language is primary communication and is essential to the evolution of humanity.

And as imagination bodies forth
The forms of things unknown, the poet’s pen
Turns them to shapes and gives to airy nothing
A local habitation and a name.
- William Shakespeare (from A Midsummer Night’s Dream)

reply to post by CretumOrbis


This actually seems to go hand-in-hand with my names thread. Both postulate that something may exist, that's intrinsic to form through representations. You ask folks to 'free' themselves by rejecting the current forms we all use. Not a bad idea, but to that I would respond; All things in moderation my friend. I would try to use the formlessness you describe in certain aspects. I find free-flowing thought to be a spur to creativity. However, when I use my other brain, I feel like I need the boundaries that words provide. I believe in the duality of the universe, and I think that this is no different. One must not be too much of one thing. At least that's what I believe.

reply to post by CretumOrbis


You may be able to sense it, but I do not think you can understand it until you have conceptualized it. Thus, what you are most probable referring to is not the "information" or knowledge within the data, but the sense of understanding that comes with the understanding that the information is there, within the data.

That is, you sense the data, but you do not understand it to be information until you have conceptualized/made it into words/images.

So, you are calling data information before it is actually made into information -- simply because you feel/know that it is information unrealized.

Did I write this post simply enough?

You all got it right, because you already understood. I'm talking about how to initiate the process. When you let them go and reform, what you come back with is the answer from your intuition. I've done it naturally my whole life without being able to explain it. A lot of people are learning how to take those shackles off right now, I'm learning how to wear them comfortably. Where they have trouble letting go, I have trouble grasping.

No matter how I arrange the shadows, those who already understand will immediately recognize them for what they are. I'm trying to arrange them so that those that don't understand, will. You have the only key that works, nobody can give it to you. I'm just one of many trying to tell you how to use it, as evidenced above.

If you understand and can explain it in your own words, I encourage you to do so.

Edit: Suppose I should've included the source material I'm referring too... *eyeroll*

The Cave

The song I referenced was "The Grudge", by Tool. The song is about the cave, what keeps you there and what it does to you.

"The Grudge" lyrics

reply to post by CretumOrbis


What is the point? To acknowledge that something produced the shadow or that the shadow is more than a shadow (there is more to the shadow than its image)?

reply to post by Bleeeeep


Both. Once you see what created it, it doesn't matter what form it takes - you will always recognize it.

Just to be clear here, we're both speaking in metaphor, right?

reply to post by CretumOrbis


The shadow, as a metaphor, is an image unto our concepts about images and their concepts -- just as a shadow, in real life, is an image of God's concepts of shadows.

I think you're 2 levels deep within metaphors, and I am 3 levels deep, working my way back out.

I was going to hit you with this last post:

If we didn't define or create an image/concept/shadow for the shadow, would we be able to see the shadow? That is, if you did not define the shadow as something distinct from the cave wall, would you see it/be able to distinguish it from the wall? The answer is no - you would only see a wall.

The point being, the information must be defined (given a word/image) to be known, just as the images/shadows/words we see must contain information. (They rely upon one another to manifest.)

So, drawing back to my first post, as long as you understand that the information needs a word in order to be known, all is well if you want to seek further information from the images.

e.g. A tree looks as a tree does but its concepts(information) are literally represented in its appearance and actions. So, a tree, to the image creator (God), probably represents seasons, fruit from growth, shade giving, etc in addition to its simple image of a tree.

Theretofore, the word is but a symbol of the information(data).

The interpretation of what may be observed with various lenses may cause different perspective views. The constant being something "is" being observed thru various lenses and attempted to be processed though subjective as objective as possible. The something being observed being the data the lenses interpretation being the information...

Im a sucker for Plato, so I had to respond.

You people are talking about the shadows? My god. Why are you still in the cave?

Your supposed to understand that the sun is right outside the cave entrance. Go outside.

Two things that are outside the cave.

Generalization. Very bad. A chair is something you sit on. Sure, but no. You stand on, eat off, etc.


4 dimensional thinking. Great. When you see a car does your mind see its internal structure? All of its components? When you look at a building can you imagine its framing, plumbing and electrical wiring?

I also call 4d thinking "right click thinking". When you right click on a file you can open "properties" telling you important details about said file. You should apply that to everything you see.

Much more, but Im too busy playing in the sun.

theabsolutetruth
Often words are the opposite or restrictions.

Words infuse the imagination with the seeds of invention and insight.

Words give freedom with their transference of idea and wisdom, the teaching of information and inspiring the mind.

Words are more than mere sounds from the mouths of physical beings.

Language is primary communication and is essential to the evolution of humanity.

And as imagination bodies forth
The forms of things unknown, the poet’s pen
Turns them to shapes and gives to airy nothing
A local habitation and a name.
- William Shakespeare (from A Midsummer Night’s Dream)

edit on 4-1-2014 by theabsolutetruth because: (no reason given)

I agree. Words are not limiting. Its your conception of a word that matters. I hear people use words with a negative connotation in a positive way all the time. People dont delve into the actual world of thought and transference each word is capable of. Most people dont study etymology. I do, therefore i know exactly what Im saying.

Between the active understanding of a words meaning and my obsessive desire to add to my vocabulary, I consciously know what Im saying at all times. Something I find rare in people.

You can only relate and or shape the world with words. Only way to translate thought into reality. Some will say art. Yeah maybe 1% of all art ever created. But for most of us its words. Study them.

I have a huge grin on my face right now, thank you all.

Thought up another example while lying in bed last night. So here goes my third explanation, my third representation.

1+1=2

Both "1+1" and "2" are representations of the same information, as denoted by the equal sign. If you understand the information that created those 2 representations then you immediately recognize both for what they are, and conceivably any of the infinite variations of representation that the information can take.

I'm not expressing any new information here, I'm looking for more ways to represent it. Just as numbers and words are representations, so too are the things around you in the physical world. They are representations of what created them. Not separate, but not the same, only part.

What Plato said is what Buddha said is what Christ said is what many others have said. The message is not our creation, it is our interpretation of the information. We are many, and we are not special or unique in any way other than how we choose to represent ourselves and our understanding. We came here because we were called. We had our reward, our bliss, our Nirvana. We set it aside to come here and help you find yours, because you asked us to. Whether or not those voices find what they are looking for, we will leave here knowing we tried. We did our best to help.

My point here is to show just how many of us there are, now and throughout history, and how our message can be represented in an infinite number of ways.