Calling all atheists

Xtrozero


Society in the past has not done very well when religion was removed from the equation.

when has society ever had the internet before?

the reason why people are so bad to one another is because we are fighting over resources. With a little help from our ET friends we can upgrade our technology, get off fossil fuels and nukes and hopefully be able to clean up the mess all that has made. We would be able to improve living standards around the world and that would eliminate the entire mechanism of war and evil deeds.

you may say "well you are just substituting religion for aliens" and I would argue the difference is the aliens are real.

boymonkey74
reply to post by tsingtao

 

Human characteristics? like Jesus...he was also not a God but just a decent fella.
What about other faiths Gods? Hindus for example a billion people believe in them but wait because it isn't your brand they must be wrong eh?.

ya, that's your take on Him.

what other gods? the monkey king?

steven chow does a great monkey king.

reply to post by tsingtao


Hanuman the Hindu monkey god has a great tale, great reading but I don't believe in it at all, just as Jesus is a great story (not original taken from other gods tales) and does have a good message but that message would be better If we just accepted that it came from a man like you or me.
Religion blames humanity for everything and tells us Good comes from God when it comes from humanity.

Text Purplereply to post by ColeYounger


I'm sort of Pagan, I believe in the oldest GODDESSES & GODS & even Angels & Demons. NOT ONE alleged God & Devil. I even believe a lot of Myth more than ONE alleged God & Devil & Christianity.
Point is; I believe in SOMETHING .
To my understanding of Theology which I studied in University quite extensively, is that EVEN Atheists & Agnostics ARE indeed religions in that ii IS a belief.
Everyone needs to believe in SOMETHING .
Religion is just a belief.
I ask; Why do most people think ONLY Christianity & Satanism are usually the main 2 religious beliefs when the contain so many contradiction within themselves? The HOLY & SATANIC Bibles?
THAT is what I personally feel is so illogical.
We believe what we believe. That SHOULD be enough.....Whatever/Whoever we are & what our jobs are should not matter yet there have been so many wars stemmed, rooted & in the name of religion.
Who truly follows what they themselves PREACH? Completely? Fanatically?
I choose to believe in what is most logical & real to myself & others should have the rights to do the same only that is not the case is it? It's ALWAYS been dictated that the 1 & only true good religion is Christianity despite comments such as you own.....Knights Templars raped, pillaged & murdered thousands in the name of CHRISTIANITY.
Just food for thought

tsingtao

Krazysh0t
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Yes, they make room in torture chambers or at the end of a sword trying to convert them by force and failing that condemning them to hell. I'm not really sure what you are getting at, but history shows that Abrahamic religions make little room for the non-believers. So much so that many ancient skeptics and atheists had to publicly say they were Christian, but one can deduce their real beliefs through their writings and some of their quotes.

there were atheists back then? for all the gods?

really? lol. roman empire?

maybe in the OT, or muslims now.
but no christians are in the OT.

christian was pejorative, it meant "little christs"

Fun fact: Christians aren't the only Abrahamic Religions. Islam is just as guilty of conversion by the sword as Christianity. The last line of my post was more referring to European atheists, but it wasn't like atheism was a celebrated line of thought in the ancient Middle East either.

Yes, there have always been atheists. It isn't like critical thinking about religious topics sprung up overnight. You just don't hear about too many of them, because of Abrahamic religions' tendency to suppress them.

tsingtao

Pinke
reply to post by Bone75

 

Bone75
reply to post by ColeYounger

 

I couldn't agree with you more. Today's atheists are the most disrespectful people on the planet. They're on the same level as racists in my opinion.

You're making the same mistake that the 'atheists' you're talking about often make ...

There are a legion more quiet, dignified atheists than there are out spoken anti-theists. In a way I'm pretty sure you know this, and might say 'I'm not referring to X or Y type of person', but you should qualify it. Like I don't like holier than thou Christians. Most Christians don't bother me.

tsingtao
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

agnostic atheist? seriously?

wtf is that? sounds silly.

you believe or don't or are too chicken# to make a decision.

It's actually one of the basic concepts behind New Atheism for the most part.

It's generally accepted on an academic level that even dedicated anti-theists are agnostic, and in most conversations it goes without saying as metaphysics 101. It's a straw man when someone walks in and says 'well I'm agnostic, and you're all arrogant' because they're not having the same conversation as everyone else in the room usually. It would get tiresome to start every conversation with 'well I'm not 100% sure but...'

Dawkins and other prominent Atheists hold this position, and I can see why in a non-academic setting someone would feel the need to point it out.

Side note: I'd suggest OP that there are wide and varied reasons for distrusting and hating religion, but there are some pretty good Atheists on ATS to have conversations with if you look in the right places. Biggest issue is often people respond to the most offensive person in each thread instead of the most curious or thoughtful.

edit on 6-1-2014 by Pinke because: Side Note

maybe in an academic setting? but what's it say for here at ATS?

they are fake or what? does it count what they say?
what does academics have to do with it, anyway? why would it be different for the common chump?

naw, there are believers, agnostics and non-believers. most against christianity.
rarely against norse or roman or greek or even sumarians, egyptian, or any other believers.
(add whatever gods in here) and that's only in a small part of the whole world and time.

This needs to be posted here since some people don't understand what agnosticism is:

Krazysh0t
This needs to be posted here since some people don't understand what agnosticism is:

edit on 6-1-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

I can see how this might work from a Cartesian point of view, in as much as it is nice and definite;

I Think: Therefore I am. Ergo - I know I exist.

It's all neat and tidy in the garden of belief. But in the spirit of Socratic debate (and because I enjoy a postmodern brain freeze more than a bucket of ice cream) how about;

I think: Therefore I must be an entity capable of convincing myself I can think. Ergo - I do not know I exist and you can't prove it either way.

How do we get around the thought that knowledge is an abstract concept and no one can possibly know what I think I might or might not know, let alone anyone else? If we exclude 'knowing' from the nice picture you posted then we are all floating round the borders looking for a way in and life in the garden of belief is not so rosy, I suppose.

boymonkey74
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

Another is that they try and instil fear into us for being what we are..human, I accept the light side and the dark side of humanity but I know which feels right and which doesn't I don't need threats of eternal torment to be a decent chap...Other people use religion as a tool to make others do what they want...my example of this is in the bible like I said...giving your money to the priests or you will not goto heaven.

The bits about eternal torment aren't there to make you a decent chap (you're probably that already.) And where in the Bible does it say that a follower of Christ won't go to heaven if you don't give your money to the priests? (I really must have missed that part!)

reply to post by ColeYounger


Anger is not the way of Christ, Forgiveness is...
All I see in this forum from the majority of Christians, is a constant offensive and militant attitude when we discuss religious subjects.
Like they are preparing for the next crusade.

We have every right to talk about and question Christianity since it has inspired and promote the acts of Christians and the churches that have changed our world the last 1700 years bringing the dark ages and countless killings and sufferings and misery and fear and imo it is the largest brainwashing ''machine'' ever existed. Which still affect the societies that also we atheists live in. (In political and social ways).

Since this healthy site, isn't a christian church I don't see why we can't also have an opinion on the subject without being a blasphemy for the religious.

When christians had the ultimate political power (christian dictatorship as I call it), It was this very same attitude that led to ''stone the sinner'', and ''burn the witch'' or in the less harming aphorism from social activities.

reply to post by ColeYounger

Some atheists get really offended when someone believes in God, like it’s an affront to their dignity.

Some atheists are really offended when they're insulted very publicly by people that believe in God

Let's start with your OP:

I’d like to put forth the following propositions to our resident atheists:

First and foremost… Rejecting anything and everything that you consider theological, religious, or spiritual doesn’t automatically make you “scientific-minded”. On the contrary, it makes you close-minded.

Second…. There are people much smarter than you who believe in God.

Finally… Feel free to believe that “spiritual” = “unscientific”. Go ahead and believe that when you die, it’s The End, and you’re worm food. Go ahead and believe, essentially, in nothing beyond our limited consciousness and awareness.

It was a very easy way to attack everyone at once as opposed to taking on individual posters one at a time to discuss - or argue - in the moment

There's a lot of meanness in this post. I'm sure you feel it falls under turnabout is fair play. Too bad this is how you chose to handle your anger - you might have had a chance to get to know some of the resident atheists and understand their thinking a little better

They're not all the same - and if some of them are a little testy, well - they're just as human as the Christians I guess. They've also been getting this kind of direct judgement and grief for at least as long as you guys have. Not to mention the whole my way or the highway state of affairs that's been in place for...centuries is it? :-)

That might explain some of it

Why can't we have a category titled "Indifferent Atheists"? Atheists who don't know for a fact that gods don't exist, but would still reject a god if it were proven to exist?

I believe that panspermia is but one way in which life is carried throughout the universe...

We are not alone...

Science itself is a manifestation of the conscious self-aware mind...

Science seeks to place labels and handles upon every aspect of reality....

Given enough time, the science of conscious thought will place labels and handles on every aspect of our reality...
Things like immortality... unlimited energy...removal of all scarcity...and it will inevitably place handles upon time itself...
And then we will have all the time in the world to find the secrets of the universe....and all things will be known....

It is my intuitive belief that this has already happened long ago in the cosmos...

There are beings in this universe of godly statures...angelic as well... But there is only one Creator...

When you know all the keys for manipulating reality...."man in the sky" starts to become a little more understandable...

reply to post by HanoiLullaby


In order to define agnosticism or gnosticism you need to discuss knowing. If you take knowing out of the equation you are just left with the descriptor atheist or theist.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Does knowing have to be established by fact to be "knowing"? Could knowing simply be a state of emotional regard for a concept? A complete absence of doubt or reserve?

ColeYounger
A comment left by an atheist prompted me to create this thread. Usually, I wouldn't care and would just move on, but the comment angered me just a tad. It 'cut me to the quick', as it were.

The comment was left on a thread that was created by a Christian, and a follower of Jesus. It was a fairly lengthy thread and I read a good deal of it. The Original Poster was, imo, intelligent, logical and rational. A thinker.

Of course, within an hour's time, one of the local atheists posted the obligatory comment about how anyone who believes in "an invisible man in the sky" is an unscientific moron. The comment was just childish, and poorly worded to boot. Someone who can barely string a sentence together was chastising someone who had an obviously well-developed faculty for thinking.

Looking around the "religious" forums, I noticed about a half-dozen of these "atheist attacks" on "unscientific" Christians. Some atheists get really offended when someone believes in God, like it’s an affront to their dignity.

This might be lengthy reply, and this is my third try to write on this. Interestingly, every time I read, more I see who is that childish and poorly worded atheist that mentions 'an invisible man in the sky', great quote from late George. At first I was not so sure, but later, well, we come to that point.

ColeYounger
I’d like to put forth the following propositions to our resident atheists:

Interesting, go on...

ColeYounger
First and foremost…
Rejecting anything and everything that you consider theological, religious, or spiritual
doesn’t automatically make you “scientific-minded”. On the contrary, it makes you close-minded. It actually makes you unscientific. Real scientists seek the truth, and don’t reject something out of hand because it isn’t plainly visible or proven. A real scientist could look at a tree and at least entertain the idea that there could be a designer, an intelligence, a creator behind it.

Of course, rejecting all those things does not make you scientific-minded. Research and willingness to learn and discover - does. On the other hand, rejecting all scientific advancement in favor of the book that was written before science, and trying to explain science with the same book - now you got full grasp what close-minded means. A real scientist will never doubt where tree comes from.

ColeYounger
Second….
There are people much smarter than you who believe in God. There are physicists, mathematicians and biologists with stellar I.Q.s who believe in a creator. Are they being scientific and unscientific at the same time? There are some deep thinkers out there who have pushed their very sanity to its limits, grappling with concepts that are beyond the realm of human understanding. They have stared into the abyss, and many have come away concluding there must be a God. How can these unscientific simpletons match intellects with the likes of Penn & Teller, the Las Vegas magicians who have avowed there’s no God?

This is part where I was sure it was me and my comments, as I use them quite often to show how absurd idea about personal 'man in the sky' is. Let me first agree with you, there are lots of smarter people than me, who believe in God, but unfortunately for you, statistics show that with education, number goes down. Let Mr. Tyson explain this to you:



I know, he is not comedian, but I am sure that he would be great, if he ever decide to do it. So, number goes down to around 7 percent of top scientists. Give couple more decades and I am sure number will go down close to 0. (also visible form statistics, if you need, let me know, I can (re)post info)

ColeYounger
Finally…
Feel free to believe that “spiritual” = “unscientific”. Go ahead and believe that when you die, it’s The End, and you’re worm food. Go ahead and believe, essentially, in nothing beyond our limited consciousness and awareness.
In your defense, it’s human nature to doubt. Even Mother Teresa had a ‘dark night of the soul’ where her faith was weakened. Many saints have experienced ‘spiritual dryness.’ The Apostle Thomas, the doubter, was the one who got to touch the wounds of Christ.

I’ll leave you with a quote from “The Count of Monte Cristo”

Edmond Dantes: I don't believe in God.
Abbe Faria (the priest): It doesn't matter. He believes in you.

Funny how when you read this, you get full feeling what worries you - being worms food, part of the life on earth, nothing different then rest of animal world. Believing in afterlife will make it real?

But what, just for sake of argument, Egyptians are the one who had it right? What if your body has to be preserved in the order for soul to exist? Or what if Tibetans had it right... and soul will only go where it supposed if monks repeat verses from Holy Book of Dead. What if you are wrong? As Dawkins often used to say, what if only reason you believe what you believe is by pure accident of being born here?

And for end, here is quote form one of great minds...

For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Does knowing have to be established by fact to be "knowing"? Could knowing simply be a state of emotional regard for a concept? A complete absence of doubt or reserve?

Of course not. That is why there is this thing called intuition. Intuition doesn't require the facts to be known to know something.

I remember reading on here about a lady in america who was asked in the news if she thanked God because she survived a Tornado i think it was, and she said she was an Atheist, and there was howls of indignation that this meant some church was unhappy with her and refused her help. They never mentioned that the Atheist community got together and raised over £100,000 for her just because she was Atheist, that was money just for her, not to be shared among her godfearing neighbours.
There are 2 sides to every story, and most of the time neither side comes out ahead.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


This story?

www.patheos.com... actually-an-atheist/