Bertha is blocked by a steel pipe

reply to post by schuyler


that's actually great news...cut the pipe and move on digger

Bringing people back to reason is always a good and admirable job!
Well done!

Bowing in respect.

What if the following scenario is the truth?

They put in a steel pipe years ago, it hit something, wouldn't go any further. Maybe they conducted tests and found an anomaly. They then put together this "project" using Bertha to meet the end of the steel pipe to see what was blocking it.

Elathan
What if the following scenario is the truth?

They put in a steel pipe years ago, it hit something, wouldn't go any further. Maybe they conducted tests and found an anomaly. They then put together this "project" using Bertha to meet the end of the steel pipe to see what was blocking it.

I don't know whether this is worth responding to or not. The origin of the steel pipe and its purpose are not in question here. We know when, why, and where the pipe was put down--to measure groundwater in an attempt to assess the stability of the Alaskan Way Viaduct after the earthquake. Given the proximity of the Viaduct to the salt-water Elliott Bay, plus the existence of a century old sea-wall put in place to--you know--hold back the sea, it would seem a prudent course of action. The results of the measuring of the groundwater plus other work led to the conclusion that although the Viaduct, built in 1950, might stand up another few years, it really was inherently unstable and another major earthquake might collapse it with inevitable loss of life. Therefore the decision was made to strengthen it for the time being, but to get rid of it eventually, one way or another.

Bear in mind that the "tunnel solution" was far from a given. Many other alternatives were considered, including a suspension bridge, which was actually quite a viable option, to surface streets. The political battle was intense, with the Mayor of Seattle dead-set against a tunnel and the State of Washington for it. (It's a state highway and right-of-way, not a city-owned street.) There was even an election of the people which showed 60% support for the tunnel and even with the election's decisive victory the mayor continued to oppose it where he could. In his defiant "my way or the highway" leadership approach (quite literally), he lost the next election.

You are suggesting that the pipe drilled in 2002 hit an "anomaly," THEREFORE TPTB put together a massive tunnel boring machine, which has no provision for "seeing" anything, as we've found out, at the cost of billions of dollars with the cover story that it was to replace the Viaduct just to see what a well may have hit?

Well, that's quite a fanciful suggestion and an expensive solution to satisfy curiosity. After all, we know there is a ship down there and probably a locomotive engine, so spending a few billion to find that out would have been very cool. Congratulations for "denying ignorance." Meanwhile subsequent news stories, however misleading they may be, have reported nothing but the steel well casing as the culprit, though they, as well as all the many knowledgeable civil engineers here, are still holding out for the possibility of something more exotic.

Good luck with that.

reply to post by schuyler


I would say it's a question of "Applying Imagination" as opposed to "Denying Ignorance" as no one here, yourself included, actually has eyes on this pipe or the cold, hard facts to prove it is there one way or the other. The article admits that the pipe is "partially to blame" and as we have pointed out, they knew it was there the whole time but waited this long to acknowledge it.

Why would they do that?

More importantly, for a group of people who go on and on about not trusting the MSM we sure seem to go out of our way to completely shut down anyone who doesn't buy the official story.

So, sorry, but where I come from mistakes of the magnitude we are told these intelligent and well trained people have made would lead to their termination.

reply to post by Thorneblood


I believe there is a vast difference between "denying ignorance" by questioning what the MSM says, particularly if you can find ANY evidence AT ALL contradicting their pronouncements. But postulating fanciful conjectures with absolutely no basis in reality at all, from UFOs, to some "anomaly" that justifies billions of dollars in expenditures for a tunnel boring machine. (Couldn't they have just dug a hole?) seems to me to be completely off the mark and fanciful.

Just what evidence of any kind about this situation points to anything other than the steel pipe? Only those folks who can't wrap their head around the possibility, including the MSM, on whose shaky just-in-case equivocating ("at least partially to blame," etc,) the flimsiest of hopes are hung that this might be, maybe, HOPEFULLY, something really much, much more interesting, and shaded with conspiracy, than a silly 8" steel pipe.

So we manufacture conspiracy and exotic answers from literally nothing at all, from wishful thinking by folks who would really like life to be much more entertaining than the mundane explanations responsible for their existence. I think ATS makes a collective fool of itself on a regular basis, and this is a perfect example. UFOs? Evidence of a lost civilization? You can't be serious, and nowhere else would you ever be taken seriously. Only on ATS can you indulge yourself with such utter nonsense.

In terms of people being terminated? I absolutely 100% agree with that. No question. This was NOT an "unknown unknown." It was right in the specifications furnished to the contractor, available in PDF format courtesy of the WS-DOT (in a classic CYA move: "It wasn't us, therefore you can't blame us.") So heads should certainly roll here, and the contractor should be liable for any costs involved.

reply to post by schuyler


So instead the city and the taxpayers will fit the bill and all those involved will just wipe their hands and walk away with more coin.

Isn't that, in itself, a conspiracy?


Anyway.....

They hit another pipe 3 days before, even broke off parts and drove it up through the street, but when they hit this pipe they get no grip. How is that possible?

Wouldn't the sound of metal on metal and their previous experience dictate it's another pipe?

reply to post by schuyler

Utter nonsense is thinking that in the last month nobody checked the pdf

I can't even believe we are taking this pipe thing seriously .

No way did they waste millions of dollars and a month because of a known issue

No way. To even suggest such a thing NOT denying ignornce

The fact is, you don't have anything. Nothing. Nada. Zip. The only fact that has come up is an 8" steel pipe. That's it. All the rest is speculation that someone isn't behaving the way some people here think they ought to behave, therefore they jump to the conclusion that this is suspicious, not even acknowledging that their idea of "odd behavior" came from them first.

When you come up with something substantial, by all means enlighten us and bask in the glory of your sleuthing skills and precognitive abilities. Meanwhile, until someone somewhere comes up with something better than hiding behind a murky, un-provable "Hmmm! It must be a conspiracy!" excuse, the most viable and likely story, supported by scraps from the pipe itself, which you can see pictures of, and even from the written specifications, which you can read yourself, is that a pipe caused the initial problem and damaged the cutting edges to the point they would no longer cut, basically a proverbial wrench stuck in the works. It's no more complicated than that. It fits the known facts. It does not depend on imaginary facts not in evidence.

MY prediction is that they'll get this thing fixed, zoom on forward through the till, and get done on time by the original schedule. No UFOs. No paranormal stuff. No hidden conspiracies. Nothing. And this is a prediction you can actually test, not one hidden by vague notions of "something strange beneath the streets of Seattle!"

reply to post by schuyler


That pipe is not a fact.

Just what we were told

reply to post by schuyler


So the drill that can't cut through steel actually managed to cut through steel but when it hit more steel it couldn't cut that steel.

Makes perfect sense.

BTW, all evidence offered so far could easily be faked.

reply to post by amurphy245


Seattle's underground is well known for containing all sorts of things. I believe that they have discovered 6? Mammoths in that area, as well as Mastodons, a suspected meteorite, forgotten ships/trains/etc. And that is just the stuff they know and talk about. Now factor in how many ships just dumped their cargo in that area, how much debris and random crap was pushed down and built over.

However, when you explore the local native american lore around that area you turn up references to dragons, giants, fairies, shape shifters and the center of all creation. My vote is for something pertaining to that.

Oh, and the best part, Bigfoot is a guardian of a portal between worlds, so maybe they found the door.

Thorneblood
reply to post by schuyler

 

So instead the city and the taxpayers will fit the bill and all those involved will just wipe their hands and walk away with more coin.

Isn't that, in itself, a conspiracy?

edit on 5-1-2014 by Thorneblood because: (no reason given)

Anyway.....

They hit another pipe 3 days before, even broke off parts and drove it up through the street, but when they hit this pipe they get no grip. How is that possible?

Wouldn't the sound of metal on metal and their previous experience dictate it's another pipe?

edit on 5-1-2014 by Thorneblood because: (no reason given)

Well how about the first pipe may a have on the very outer edge of the cutting head that's how part of the pipe broke and some was forced up , and the second pipe may have been further in within the dia of the cutting head and of a larger dia and possibly a thicker wall thickness and that may be why it couldn't be cut.

That's just some ideas, may be people on here that just ASSUME conspiracy for everything that happens should actually THINK of POSSIBLE scenarios