Rich Catholics Threaten Pope Francis—Because He Frightens Them

This pope amazes me day by day... he has my blessing and support. .

reply to post by FlyersFan


So we shouldn't try to help the poor with a taxed fund because the money would corrupt whoever administered it? Then why try anything if there's the slightest chance of failure?

I, for one, am sick of this whole system and can see how a mild reallocation of resources could change everything for the better for the vast majority of people.

Having some open system of handling the money does not seem impossible.

We could have food, shelter, clothing and health care for everyone in a year if we really wanted to.

A socialist Pope... I love it. The super wealthy won't listen to him, though... they listen to the "other team."

reply to post by FlyersFan


So we shouldn't try to help the poor with a tax fund because the money would corrupt whoever administered it? Then why try anything if there's the slightest chance of failure?

I, for one, am sick of this whole system and can see how a mild reallocation of resources could change everything for the better for the vast majority of people.

Having some open system of handling the money does not seem impossible.

We could have food, shelter, clothing and health care for everyone in a year if we really wanted to.

A socialist Pope... I love it. The super wealthy won't listen to him, though... they listen to the "other team."

reply to post by AfterInfinity

AfterInfinity

Jesus told him, "If you want to be perfect, go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." Matthew 19:21

Need I say more?

edit on 3-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I think they are Catholics in name only, most likely for the benefits and status...
they don't know what being a Catholic really means..

Matthew 19:23-24
New International Version (NIV)
23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

reply to post by iRoyalty


They truly believe they can buy salvation. Indulgences they were once called and Martin Luther took exception to the practise.

reply to post by wildtimes


The bigger question is why does any Pope get involved in worldly politics, when Jesus stated His Kingdom is not of this world?

Whether country A is capitalist or not should not be the concern of a Pope.

Nor should whether person A gives their 10% or not. That is between them and God.

reply to post by wildtimes


Yup, it's time to turn the tables of the money changers again!
Much is given much is expected!

Baddogma
So we shouldn't try to help the poor with a taxed fund because the money would corrupt whoever administered it?

Nope. We shouldn't. Because the system would be corrupt to begin with.
and the donations wouldn't get to the people it needs to go to.
and because you can't FORCE people to be charitable via a tax.
When you do that, then you are turning people into slaves to the state.
And that's dangerous.

The only way it works is free will donations via charitable institutions that are
heavily regulated/investigated. That way it remains 'free will' and there is a
strong checks and balances system.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

I agree with OccamsRazor. I like Pope Francis but he's over reaching and out of his area on this ...

In the UK if one donates to Charity, or makes certain 'bequests' etc, that proportion of one's income is exempt from taxation. So rather than see it disappear into the mire of Government expenses etc one can choose where to put that money for the best benefit.

To give to one's so-called altruistic fancies is great, but it usually gets leaked etc so the donor obviously gains respect and that opens doors to other benefits - it can even lead to introductions to Royalty then obviously bestowing titles and other only too useful contacts especially for business and publicity.

That might sound nastily sceptic, but look at today's really wealthy and you get the idea that they are only too aware of how much kudos they can acquire through giving money to 'good causes' es[pecially when they 'save' money on tax. Sure there are genuine wealthy people around but with today's cut and thrust in wealth making and earning business, there are few genuinely decent people who have survived to reach the elite.

I am surprised that the Pope has not yet been assassinated from within, unless the Vatican has suddenly met up with its own conscience and started to believe what it actually preaches to the poor

reply to post by wildtimes


Mark 19:24
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

As far as the Pope getting involved in finances and politics. I feel that he is doing what he sees as his Christian duty. He is not saying that everyone should sell all of their things and give all the profits to charity, he is saying that the worlds focus on gaining wealth and unrestrained capitalism is what is causing the unrestrained growth of poverty. He is calling for a more caring, more equitable system.

Help your brothers and sisters rather than trampling them underfoot in pursuit of personal wealth.

In reality, how much money does any one person need. Think about it.

reply to post by gamesmaster63


One of my favorite verses when talking to people in favor of wealth ministries and claiming God wants us all to be wealthy and rich.

FlyersFan
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

I agree with OccamsRazor. I like Pope Francis but he's over reaching and out of his area on this ...

No he isn't overreaching his area. His job is to preach the gospel. People seem to overlook that Jesus was real big on the help the poor advice. The Pope is just doing his job and people don't like it because they don't like the truth.

I'm not Catholic either, but what is this guy's damage?

If there is a God, he should smite that guy and make sure all his money go to Pope Francis, who in turn should distribute the majority to the poor, and save a good chunk for the church.

buster2010

FlyersFan
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

I agree with OccamsRazor. I like Pope Francis but he's over reaching and out of his area on this ...

No he isn't overreaching his area. His job is to preach the gospel. People seem to overlook that Jesus was real big on the help the poor advice. The Pope is just doing his job and people don't like it because they don't like the truth.

100% wrong, like almost everything you say. Please show me verses in the Bible where Jesus talked about world governments and their style of government and that they should change. I'll wait.

Jhn 18:36
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Mat 22:21
“Caesar's,” they replied. Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.”

OccamsRazor04

100% wrong, like almost everything you say. Please show me verses in the Bible where Jesus talked about world governments and their style of government and that they should change. I'll wait.

Jhn 18:36
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Mat 22:21
“Caesar's,” they replied. Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.”

Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

The OP was about an individual and not a country, and the Pope's place is to guide everyone, a country and its government are made of individuals.

DoUTrustTheLight

OccamsRazor04

100% wrong, like almost everything you say. Please show me verses in the Bible where Jesus talked about world governments and their style of government and that they should change. I'll wait.

Jhn 18:36
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”

Mat 22:21
“Caesar's,” they replied. Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's.”

Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

The OP was about an individual and not a country, and the Pope's place is to guide everyone, a country and its government are made of individuals.

edit on 5-1-2014 by DoUTrustTheLight because: grammar

And what did your verse attempt to prove, I fail to see any relevance whatsoever in that verse. As to your other assertion, 100% false. Perhaps you need to read again.

unless the pontiff stops preaching against the excesses and cruelty of unleashed capitalism

The person said that because the Pope has been bashing capitalism and demanding GOVERNMENTS (not people, not Christians, not the Catholic church) give more.

Please don't respond until you get a firm grasp of the topic.

OccamsRazor04
And what did your verse attempt to prove, I fail to see any relevance whatsoever in that verse. As to your other assertion, 100% false. Perhaps you need to read again.

unless the pontiff stops preaching against the excesses and cruelty of unleashed capitalism

The person said that because the Pope has been bashing capitalism and demanding GOVERNMENTS (not people, not Christians, not the Catholic church) give more.

Please don't respond until you get a firm grasp of the topic.

The verse proved that %100 of what buster2010 was saying is not wrong, that Jesus is big on helping the poor. It also proves the the Jesus talks about world governments and how they should change. You don't think Jesus also wanted to change how Rome handles their money and treats Jews and Christians? Or even how Jew's/Rome handled their taxes in church?

Capitalism is an economic system and like all systems Economic, or worldly politics, anything that is ran by individuals no matter what label you want to put on how a government handles their financial decisions or politics you can not take the individual out of the system. The system does not work, form, or evolve with out the individual or a group of individuals decisions.

The verse has relevance in relation to what the OP and Linked Article is talking about. The very first quote in the OP and the first paragraph of the linked news article states its about billionaires (individuals) and a specific individual, Kenneth Langone, and his problem with the Pope giving him moral guidelines on wealth.

So I do not need to read the article again, and pretty sure I have a OK grasp on the topic.

But either way I see no reason for your snide/rude remarks, belittling, and %100 certainty in all things you say.

I think that Pope Francis does'nt, care what that guy says and will continue to preach good morals.
I'm not religious in that way, or any way really, but I do agree, and cheer him on for what he is doing.
In the end, good will over come evil, and the catholic church does not need billions of dollars to survive.
Fat will be trimmed, but that will be for the best.

I think buster is correct also.

Some people are determined to hang on to their wealth no matter what. Just this morning while I was waking up, thankful that I have a home that is warm, and feeling almost embarrassed about it because I KNOW people died of exposure overnight. Tonight it will be -7F, and more people will die.

Next to my house is a church that stands empty 300 days out of the year (including Christmas as one of those - a large, brick building, that used to at least be our polling place (which was handy-dandy) and a Baptist church attended by the elderly - only a few of them. They sold it to a new group, who I imagine just use it as a tax deduction; it certainly isn't doing anything productive except providing a large windblock.

(Sorry if I've already mentioned that in this thread - I can't recall what thread I did say it in recently ...)
But the point still stands.

Then I was thinking about McDonald's, and how their employees don't earn enough to survive; and guess who pulls up the slack?? TAXPAYERS, because those employees are eligible for FOOD STAMPS. Clever, eh?
McD's is a GLOBAL corporation, and no doubt they have plenty of dough in the Caymans or other off-shore tax havens. Nice formula, eh? "Pay our employees crap to sell crap food, they'll be healthier if we do, because the government will see to it that they get food stamps to buy REAL food with. Done. Now, stash our billions in profits off-shore, and that's another load off! Brilliant!!"

How is that "okay", people?


IT ISN'T!