Mirage Men is out.

Thought it was going to be boring, but actually enjoyed watching it. Thanks for making the thread and letting us know about it.

reply to post by vbstrvct

Btw, I note here for the record that there's A LOT of Pandolfi in that one-sided exchange from StarPod, vbstrvact, and little-to-no Green, eh? Kit asked in the one email of his printed at StarPod that his responses be excised and they were.

For Clarity: Those emails referenced by yourself from Pandolfi--as reproduced on StarPod--are NOT to be confused with the Team of 5 emails.

Excellent thread and I'm quite enjoying lurking in the shadows!

vbstrvct
This is my interpretation of the To5: Doty, Green and Puthoff were/are government agents with a private interest in UFOs and have been in contact, discussing/sharing/pursuing information related to those interests for decades.

I understand why you think that...but personally don't believe it a credible conclusion. "Government agents" simply don't profess "private interest" in UFOs. It is a complete no-go place of investigation for active government agents. The bad that can often result from their public interest in the field is career ending. Personally I look at anyone in the UFO field with serious government connections as highly suspect. They are either gathering/spreading info or disinfo. They MUST have cleared their 'UFO interest' well before publicly getting involved and the only reason they would get authorization is some value the Government felt their involvement would bring.

Green, as a scientist involved in some 'far out' areas, surely doesn't fall automatically under the 'Government Agent' label. However his wide access to a variety of projects clearly puts him 'at risk' when talking about UFOs. If he was read into anything UFO related his 'private interest' would immediately become VERY private. So the two proven facts about Green (high level scientist in many secret projects AND public interest in UFOs) points very strongly to his active spreading of disinfo. The only other logical conclusion to me is he was never read into anything UFO related and feels comfortable openly talking about it as a scientist who happens to work for the government. As a government scientist if he ever DID stumble on some UFO truth he would have been muzzled so fast his head would have spun clean off.

vbstrvct
I can imagine a few scenarios for SERPO's existence but based on the available information I can't choose one over the others. (1) Doty/Green/Puthoff (& Co. ?) created SERPO in hopes of acquiring more information for themselves about the "truth" as it relates to what the government knows about UFOs. (2) One or more members of the group created it but didn't inform everyone about it. (3) It's official disinformation.

About #1 I simply can't imagine a world where ACTIVE government agents or scientists create a story to 'smoke out the truth'. These are guys that know the consequences of upsetting someone very high up on the food chain. It doesn't bring any truth smoke, it only brings career threats or career ending. While an unconnected UFO researcher can attempt to smoke out the truth and see what kind of reaction a story brings, a person working for the government can't.

For me #2 seems to be where the info leads, but only if Green is a scientist with no UFO government involvement. The evidence of Serpo creation leads directly to Doty's computers in multiple ways and times. Green goes on the record saying 90% is BS like most other credible researchers.

If Green is a disinfo agent (my personal preference, #3) then he denied the Serpo story after Doty was exposed to simply limit the damage of a poorly executed operation by Doty and save Green's 'cover' as a credible UFO researcher.

vbstrvct
I don't really have the patience or energy to pursue SERPO or the To5 anymore. It's a huge question mark and one that ultimately I don't think matters that much.

I don't think Serpo is that far from the Bennowitz story to be honest. Confirming what happened to Bennowitz helps understand Serpo and adds in a few more potential government players. It's a trail of bread crumbs that we need to track down as best we can.

Great post vbstrvct and I hope adding my thoughts on your framework isn't insulting in any way. Quoting you was a simple way for me to get my ideas out in a coherent manner.

reply to post by noeltrotsky

Wow, noel, you're a "sleeper." Nicely stated and well-versed on the particulars of this subject. You wouldn't consider taking my place at High Noon would ya?!

noeltrotsky

"Government agents" simply don't profess "private interest" in UFOs. It is a complete no-go place of investigation for active government agents. The bad that can often result from their public interest in the field is career ending. Personally I look at anyone in the UFO field with serious government connections as highly suspect.

That's eaisly one of the biggest fundamental truths regarding this topic and also the easiest to lose sight of. Being in my mid-30's and growing up watching the countless UFO investigations, it becomes almost second nature to seek out witness testimony from active military in hopes of discerning the truth. Yet, through all the facts we have learned about government secrets, disinformation and black projects the average majority still hang on the words of this from government. Can't really blame them though, if every TV doc on UFO's position the story in that manner time and again it builds a certain muscle memory and has us chasing the wrong rabbit.

noeltrotsky
Great post vbstrvct and I hope adding my thoughts on your framework isn't insulting in any way. Quoting you was a simple way for me to get my ideas out in a coherent manner.

Of course not. Everything I've posted is just my opinion. I'm fine with others disagreeing or thinking I'm completely off base. That's completely normal and to be expected when intelligent people exchange ideas.

But I'm a little confused as to where exactly you disagree with me. I understood your perspective but then you said "[t]he only other logical conclusion to me is he was never read into anything UFO related and feels comfortable openly talking about it as a scientist who happens to work for the government." And that's pretty much my position.

I don't think Serpo is that far from the Bennowitz story to be honest. Confirming what happened to Bennowitz helps understand Serpo and adds in a few more potential government players.

I don't dismiss the possibility but I can't say with any certainty that SERPO is official disinformation. It might be the creation of private parties - for any number of conceivable reasons - and that would make it significantly different from Bennewitz's case.

It's a trail of bread crumbs that we need to track down as best we can.

If it is official disinformation then I have a suspicion where that trail leads, and it's one I don't think anyone has previously explored at length. Partly because it might be very difficult to even get started on that trail.

The GUT
Btw, I note here for the record that there's A LOT of Pandolfi in that one-sided exchange from StarPod, vbstrvact, and little-to-no Green, eh? Kit asked in the one email of his printed at StarPod that his responses be excised and they were.

Bekkum's articles are filled with Kit Green's quotes and interactions with Bekkum. Even in articles where he doesn't name Kit Green you can see the quotes from Bekkum's alleged source are attributed to Kit in other (perhaps more recent) articles.

But yes, those emails have nothing to do with the Team of 5. My apologies if I didn't make that obvious.

vbstrvct

But I'm a little confused as to where exactly you disagree with me. I understood your perspective but then you said "[t]he only other logical conclusion to me is he was never read into anything UFO related and feels comfortable openly talking about it as a scientist who happens to work for the government." And that's pretty much my position.

Although its possible, when I think of that scenario my mind races to an old bar game i used to play when I was younger. "6 degrees of Kevin Bacon" given Green's background, it would take far less than 6 angles to connect him with some aspect of this topic without his personal interests. Far too much a liability, but perhaps also more critical to it all than we could know. Forces him into a position where he might have to get his boots muddy, lay with the dogs. Just a thought.

Mankind Research Unlimited.

These cats sound interesting.

reply to post by 1ofthe9

I spent some time with one of them recently (now a defunt org of course.) Was fascinating. And trippy. Once we get some of this other bidness out of the way, I look forward to discussing that, and the other items you and Willtell have brought up with anyone who might be interested in those aspects.

1ofthe9
Mankind Research Unlimited.

These cats sound interesting.

Anything MKultra'esk is fun to wrap your head around just hope you don't go crazy. Some crazy connections in MRU.

vbstrvct
If it is official disinformation then I have a suspicion where that trail leads, and it's one I don't think anyone has previously explored at length. Partly because it might be very difficult to even get started on that trail.

You have my complete attention with that statement. It sounds absolutely yummy.

Would you elaborate on that here? If not, by u2u?

Bekkum's articles are filled with Kit Green's quotes and interactions with Bekkum. Even in articles where he doesn't name Kit Green you can see the quotes from Bekkum's alleged source are attributed to Kit in other (perhaps more recent) articles.

Not to mention that the quotes from Kit often seem obvious. Can you point to any you find pertinent?

Rosinitiate
Anything MKultra'esk is fun to wrap your head around just hope you don't go crazy. Some crazy connections in MRU.

6 degrees of Kevin Bacon you said?

MK-ULTRA manager Sidney Gottlieb funds initial Remote Viewing research. Remote Viewing cadre are deemed "human-use experimentation." Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green takes over CIA oversight of remote viewing program.

Dang...that was only 3...

Let's try another one. Category: Ufological Disinformation: Doty to MJ-12. MJ-12 to SERPO. SERPO to Kit Green. WOW, this is both fun and educational! Bet there's more.

reply to post by The GUT


Imagine how drunk we'd get at the pub on the first attempt.

Edit to add: if you can do it in 2, shots all around, if you do it in 1 you have solved the riddle.

Rosinitiate

1ofthe9
Mankind Research Unlimited.

These cats sound interesting.

Anything MKultra'esk is fun to wrap your head around just hope you don't go crazy. Some crazy connections in MRU.

I'm more interested in any UFO work they did. Very little about that aspect online though.

As for MOD:

-The 2008 edition has Vallee talking about how ET existence is taken for granted now.
-Vallee calls for using UFO data to "initiate an interaction with the phenomena itself."

The GUT
You have my complete attention with that statement. It sounds absolutely yummy.

Would you elaborate on that here? If not, by u2u?

Sure, I have no problem saying where I think the trail, at least from the Bennewitz op, leads to: the AFOSI's PJ unit.

Not to mention that the quotes from Kit often seem obvious. Can you point to any you find pertinent?

On this article, from April 2011, has an excerpt from an email from a source who Bekkum says "was later reported by British author Mark Pilkington as a source for the CORE STORY, wrote ...". We know this to be Kit Green.

Interestingly on that article Doty's name was redacted from the quoted excerpt, but on this article, from February 2013, the same passage includes Doty's name.

Relevant excerpts:

I will think about this seriously, as long as our three-person team (you, me, and [redacted]) remains protected. I will cut and run the first instant I get a whiff that some list or [redacted], or whomever gets interested in me.

I fully agree with Ron’s mystification about [former DCI Richard] Helms. Why he contacted me, wanted to meet with me privately at the National Research Council, and was so unambiguous confuses me. I did not get the impression he did so because he was using me, indeed, he was insistent on privacy.

Shortly before he died, he wrote me and one other person, saying he had learned that despite his counsel to us, he had “heard” (incorrectly, it turned out) that we had agreed [redacted] [vbstrvct note: from the 2013 article you see the redacted name here is Doty's] had been a “bad person” and he said he would never talk to us again, and he did not. A letter, then another, and another from me to him saying he had heard a distorted and wrong story went unanswered.

I am not prepared to repeat what he said to me before that, because I am uncertain as to his mental state (he seemed intact, but the subject was, after all quite crazy) , he required secrecy, and he never said I would be released from it, the core story he claimed was true is the same we have heard, and because I am too busy.

Like you, I will take my counsel from Ron [Pandolfi, a former CIA analyst later with the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, according to US government documents]. I want no more involvement in the soap opera.

On this article, from February 2013, we get an additional clue:

... and one team member offering, “I will think about this seriously, as long as our three-person team (you, me and Ron) remains protected.”

Since Bekkum admits it was Dan Smith who leaked these emails, and the email talks about the a "three-person team", and the other one named is Ron (Pandolfi), it means the "me" was Kit Green.

And this email by Kit Green was in response to, as Bekkum puts it:

Allegations of a a U.S. government CORE STORY of contact with an intelligence ‘not of this Earth’ resurfaced a few years ago when Dan T. Smith, son of the former Presidential advisor to Dwight D. Eisenhower, pressed for disclosure from his intelligence contacts.

reply to post by vbstrvct

Thanks for the elaboration and info.

So, that email says something to the effect of, "I won't tell you what Helms said, but he said the core story was true." That's a pretty neat trick.

Dropping the name of the late Richard Helms and suggesting he confirmed the "core story"
is mind-blowing----ly convenient. That could keep Bekkum--and others--chasing his tail (tale) for years!

The GUT
So, that email says something to the effect of, "I won't tell you what Helms said, but he said the core story was true." That's a pretty neat trick. Dropping the name of the late Richard Helms and suggesting he confirmed the "core story is mind-blowing----ly convenient That could keep Bekkum--and others--chasing his tail (tale) for years!

My understanding is that this was a private conversation between Ron Pandolfi, Kit Green and Dan Smith. Dan Smith for some reason then leaked the emails to Bekkum. So when Kit Green mentions the Richard Helms story he believes he is talking to Smith and Pandolfi and only them. These are from 2005, pre-SERPO, as per my understanding.

Then in 2006 Ron Pandolfi gives Caryn Anscomb ("STARstream Research contributing source") another set of e mails, from 2006, where Pandolfi seems to be asking Kit Green a series of questions about Doty. They only publish Pandolfi's emails and not Kit Green's responses, presumably at Kit's request.

Bekkum claims, if I remember correctly, that Pandolfi did this to force Doty's hand because Pandolfi was convinced Doty was behind SERPO.

vbstrvct
My understanding is that this was a private conversation between Ron Pandolfi, Kit Green and Dan Smith. Dan Smith for some reason then leaked the emails to Bekkum. So when Kit Green mentions the Richard Helms story he believes he is talking to Smith and Pandolfi and only them. These are from 2005, pre-SERPO, as per my understanding.

You are aware that Dan Smith is often used for his propensity and willingness to leak, right? He's pretty "safe" for that job, because he doesn't question the obvious antics since he's entirely focused on--and sure--that it's all about some end of the world Armageddon-type stuff. It really is a stretch to imagine that if Kit had some blockbuster--and private--information from Richard Helms that he would share it with Dan. It don't compute, unless a "leak" is the desired outcome.

Dan thinks Ron thinks that Dan is the forthcoming "Christ" figure. (Safe to say Pandolfi thinks no such thing) Since Dan is obviously somewhat "touched" as they say around these here parts, he also provides the ultimate in plausible deniability.

Having the core story acknowledged--ahem--by Helms, would be a great way to bolster whatever you were selling.

Hilariously GUT, I was just pondering Dan Smith and the Collin's Elite stuff.