Obama administration tries to stop judge from ruling on constitutionality of NSA surveillance

The White House filed papers late Friday to stop a federal judge from deciding whether the warrantless surveillance operations were legal or not.

The government said that, despite leaks by former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, full disclosure of the surveillance data would put government secrets at risk. Divulging these secrets in a court would cause “extremely grave damage to the national security of the United States,” wrote James Clapper Jr., the director of national intelligence, in the filing.

Obama administration tries to stop judge from ruling on constitutionality of NSA surveillance

It's not illegal if you are not allowed to prove it's illegal!

But hey, national security and all that…

So, he said, he was continuing to assert the state secrets privilege, which allows the government to seek to block information from being used in court even if that means the case must be dismissed. The Justice Department wants the judge to dismiss the matter without ruling on whether the programs violated the First or Fourth Amendment.

www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by boncho


Mr. Clapper has lost all credibility.

He lied to Congress and will be real lucky if he is not charged.

"Not wittingly".... Please

reply to post by boncho

I seem to recall something about a lawsuit by former employees of "Area 51" who claimed they were harmed by exposure to some of the materials used there or something like that. There were national security issues involved in bringing that case to court.

I don't know all the details but I found this in a search:

ddsdtv.blogspot.com...

Today, the parties in the Area 51 case were formally notified that the federal court had denied the government's motion to dismiss the action on grounds of national security. In a thirty-page opinion, Judge Philip Pro ruled that the national security argument of the government was "illusory" and "unpersuasive."

Sometimes national security is a poor excuse, but in the case of things like secret coatings on aircraft to make them less visible to radar, I can see how your enemies might use such tech against you if they learned the secret coating composition, so some secrecy might make sense in that case.

But I'm not sure about the surveillance issue...it doesn't seem so clear cut. Besides, can't they have sealed court proceedings if it was really necessary? That could at least involve the courts even if some information was never made public.

I knew spying was going on, but I didn't think it was as prevalent as the Snowden leaks indicate. It's worse than I thought and I thought it was pretty bad.

It's all so very tragic. It's not unlike a married couple and one knows the other is cheating, in fact, they can smell it on him/her. You can't prove it but you do love him/her or at least love the comfortable situation you're in so you tell yourself it isn't true.

A friend of the family confides in him/her about the actions of the other half. Although you knew it, you had no idea the scope of the rottenness. All creditability is lost and trust took the midnight train to Georgia. You can't reconcile with someone that is as dishonest as they are.

The real twist here is whatever we think we know is only the tip of the iceberg, trust me. So for context, our cheating boyfriend/girlfriend turns out to be a long standing careered gigilo/prostitute.

I want a divorce!

I remember a few short years ago seeing a vid of Gadaffi touring around the streets of libya with the top half of his body out the sunroof of a car as he waved to the crowds. Just goes to show how loved he was by his people. Do you think Obama could get away with that? Didn't Obama just spend millions making his holiday location safe?
It kinda tells you something when a leader cant walk his own streets without fear of being blown away, and he has to gag the courts so you dont find out what he's been getting up to!

reply to post by boncho


I hope that you would agree that something like this all but spells out the illegitimacy of our current federal government. I care not about Bush or Obama debates, I'm aiming at the scope of our government in general.

I think this is just another nail in the coffin of what America is still thought to be by some out there who are just not paying attention. If the federal government can just say, hey.... The judicial branch has no authority to rule over whether something is legal or not because it may compromise national security and just happens to violate 300 million Americans Constitutional guarantees, well, that's just too bad!

When that same administration of the Executive branch chooses to alter law outside of their enumerated powers to selectively choose what laws passed they are going to follow, we no longer have a republic, we have something else, maybe others here at ATS know what that is?

reply to post by boncho


The government doesn't want any courts in their spying business, because the corruption behind the surveillance, what will the tax payers and voters do if they knew the truth, but given the reactions of the people with all the crap coming from the present administration scandals and deceptions probably will do just what they are doing now, no a darn thing.

VoidHawk
I remember a few short years ago seeing a vid of Gadaffi touring around the streets of libya with the top half of his body out the sunroof of a car as he waved to the crowds. Just goes to show how loved he was by his people. Do you think Obama could get away with that? Didn't Obama just spend millions making his holiday location safe?
It kinda tells you something when a leader cant walk his own streets without fear of being blown away, and he has to gag the courts so you dont find out what he's been getting up to!

Gadaffi, my old friend (and former avatar)… It's funny, every African I spoke to from that region had good things to say about Gadaffi Duck. Sure he was an ass, eccentric, off his rocker…dictator… But, he actually pushed quite a few policies that were good for his people. And something about a water pipeline and an oil pipeline he was planning which was going to be good for the people there…

Well, but he was just an evil dictator.

One that could show up to the UN and act like a five year old hopped up on red bull! Man I miss that guy…

Who wants to bet that this a political maneuver and the Obama Administration is trying to take advantage of a loophole to get what they want? I bet it has nothing to do with releasing classified documents.

Obama's administration is getting way too scary for me. I don't think Democrats should be supporting it. Do you guys think that someone is going to be elected who is gonna give us some of our freedoms back?

Wow reading the OP, its quite obvious the US government (OB administration) is aware the NSA have broken many constitutional and statutory laws and wants to play the National security card as a get out of jail free card. If that happens then I will say its likley the Justice Dept will have no credibility with the majority of people.

reply to post by boncho


So now the Federal government is above the law? Our constitution doesn't apply to them? For all the BS Obama spouted about "transparency" the media and congress should be grilling him and holding him accountable for the blatant abuse of power being used to control our governmental system of checks and balances. We expect our Judges to be neutral and up hold our constitutional rights and rule on cases accordingly. To try to pressure a Judge to change or sway his or her position and rulings when the people's constitutional rights have been clearly violated is criminal! If Judges can be pressured by government to change their rulings, our system of Justice is rigged and can no longer be trusted by the American people in which they're supposed to serve.

this administration has followed tradition with the bush administration.......disappointment after disappointment. talk about pissing on the constitution...

reply to post by Arbitrageur


I think I viewed a docu about that case once. They had burned toxic and radioactive waste on the base to keep the contents of the waste secret. Clever as they are, they burned in a place where the wind would blow the fumes back into the base. Several of the employees got sick, including cancer, so they sued. The government kept denying the existence of the base, while the employees attourney offered to take the judge to a certain hill near it to show him the base. The restricted area was much smaller then, and in reaction the government purchased a lot more land around it. I don't remember how the case went though.

reply to post by boncho


If I remember correctly, Gadaffi won a price from the UN for his engagement for human rights. About half a year later he turned into Satan himself and tortured his citizens for fun, or at least that's what the MSM wants you to believe...

Also there is this nice story about a guy who is a fighter plane nerd and thus spends every vacation close to an airbase in Italy. He is well known around there and friends with lots of the base personell, so they often let him in. About half a year before there was even a peep from Lybia, much less the 'revolution' that happened later, he was there again and spotted Danish fighterbombers on the base. When he asked what they were doing there, he was told they were training for Lybia.

On topic, I guess the government is very much aware that what they do is illegal despite their effords to get around the laws or make it look okay with that secret court that hands out warrants like candy to everyone who asks for whatever reason. Brave new world. It has been going on for a while though, much like them saying that some torture isn't real torture and as such perfectly fine with human rights and whatnot.

This reminds me of those dolls where you pull the string in the back and after three sentences, it starts repeating itself.

The government argued that disclosure of these secrets would put the country at risk if they were publicized.

For the record, I am not my country, I am myself. Government's don't attack other countries, they attack other governments. We the people are collateral damage. We are not the spoils of war. This government has backed itself into a corner, opposite of what their own paranoia was designed to achieve. Security turned into manipulation. They fear the beast they have created, constantly creating a stronger tranquilizer to sedate us when it's time to clean our cages (bank accounts).


And just for laughs.....


Some will make a connection.

reply to post by boncho


How hilarious would it be if the NSA turned out a few years down the road to be spying on the government and all the mega corporations that run it. Then it would make sense it's a national security risk, if it is just civilians in general i do not get it. I think about myself and the majority of civilians and think, what secrets do they know about me that are a national security risk?

The amount of porn we watch? how long we waste playing video games? the random mindless garbage I watch on TV? The places I buy beer ? The friends I visit who lead basically a duplicate image of my life. My 9-5 job. The complaints i make about the misses to close friends? The close friends who make complaints about their misses? The close friends I complain about to the misses?

Sure if it were all on the table it may make life a little weird for a bit, but there isn't one damn thing in my life that's a national security risk.

What is the NSA possibly listening in on, that even the most basic law enforcement doesn't look into?

There has to be some pretty serious goings on, for this to exist in the first place let alone for it to be OH SO DETRIMENTAL TO THE WELL BEING OF THE COUNTRY!

I don't like the idea of the NSA prying into my day to day life, but if it's happening i don't really know what i can do about it. I don't do anything illegal, so who the heck are they worried about. I really believe they have stumbled upon something major, and it's something internal and my conspiracy meter says it's something higher than civilian level.

I will stay neutral on this one. The Administration may have info that we do not have that would indeed prove that the agencies are correct that if communications are not all analyzed our nation could be in grave danger.

whyamIhere
reply to post by boncho

 

Mr. Clapper has lost all credibility.

He lied to Congress and will be real lucky if he is not charged.

"Not wittingly".... Please

Clapper. How ironic. They lost my applause a long time ago, and now all the data is coming in and home to roost.

It looks good on them.

That's an abuse of power, right there, plain as day.

The judge can rule without disclosing everything.

Abuse of power to hide an abuse of power.

No applause for Clapper.

reply to post by boncho


It's only a National Security issue because if Americans knew the true extent that their government spies on them, they would flip the # out...

And people thought Bush W was bad. Obama takes it to a whole new level of fascist control. There must be a lot of dirty things going on within the federal government that Obama and many others don`t want to see the light of day. More information about the recent wars would be nice to take a look at for example.

reply to post by boncho


As usual . . . the Narcissist-in-Chief/Destroyer-in-Chief

is above the rabble of the serfs and slaves and their interests.

LOLOLOL. though not really.

It's just that laughter about our sorry state is more fun than despairing tears.