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The End of the Lead Bullets. Replacements Green Bullets
page: 2share:
thisguyrighthere
reply to post by boncho
Melting lead into bullet forms at home is a little different than refining fuel at home.
I imagine if there was some demand for leaded gasoline it would be available somewhere somehow but for what little benefit there was to leaded gasoline it obviously isnt enough to warrant a home refinery operation to supply it.
On the other hand I can form lead into bullets with a Bic lighter and spoon.
You can get leaded gasoline at your nearest marina as many boats and small engines need higher lead, and cannot handle Ethanol.
edit on 18-12-2013 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)
FlyersFan
I wonder if this is how the government is going to arrest people who have stocked up on bullets?
Suddenly, the bullets we have are going to be illegal.
'Turn in your bullets or you will be breaking the law'.
Betchya.
Now your catching on. They can't get your guns so go after the ammo. That is part of arming yourself against a tyrannical govt but it is easy if you say there is an ecological hazard so you need to ban lead.
They don't have to go after anyone. But if the cops come to your home say for a domestic issue or some nosy neighbor reports that they saw you with you gun in your living room front window and search your home and find lead ammo you could be charged with possession of a banned material which will mount to a felony.
And guess what once convicted of a felony your right to bear arms goes out the win dow. But as a felon you will have the right to a web page and porn in prison.
edit on 18-12-2013 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)
reply to post by ChesterJohn
We are talking about consumer use that's non-specific. I don't see the differences. Just like if lead ammo was banned but military and police still got to use it, it can still be taken out of the consumer marketplace which will drop the numbers of use and purchase to a huge degree.
You can get leaded gasoline at your nearest marina as many boats and small engines need higher lead, and cannot handle Ethanol.
We are talking about consumer use that's non-specific. I don't see the differences. Just like if lead ammo was banned but military and police still got to use it, it can still be taken out of the consumer marketplace which will drop the numbers of use and purchase to a huge degree.
boncho
reply to post by ChesterJohn
You can get leaded gasoline at your nearest marina as many boats and small engines need higher lead, and cannot handle Ethanol.
We are talking about consumer use that's non-specific. I don't see the differences. Just like if lead ammo was banned but military and police still got to use it, it can still be taken out of the consumer marketplace which will drop the numbers of use and purchase to a huge degree.
I fully agree.
Limit the citizen's ability to arm and protect himself you effectively cause him to trust govt more for his protection.
ChesterJohn
boncho
reply to post by ChesterJohn
You can get leaded gasoline at your nearest marina as many boats and small engines need higher lead, and cannot handle Ethanol.
We are talking about consumer use that's non-specific. I don't see the differences. Just like if lead ammo was banned but military and police still got to use it, it can still be taken out of the consumer marketplace which will drop the numbers of use and purchase to a huge degree.
I fully agree.
Limit the citizen's ability to arm and protect himself you effectively cause him to trust govt more for his protection.
Isn't that the heart of the matter?
Government protects you.
Not yourself.
Government provides for you.
Not yourself.
thisguyrighthere
reply to post by boncho
Melting lead into bullet forms at home is a little different than refining fuel at home.
I imagine if there was some demand for leaded gasoline it would be available somewhere somehow but for what little benefit there was to leaded gasoline it obviously isnt enough to warrant a home refinery operation to supply it.
On the other hand I can form lead into bullets with a Bic lighter and spoon.
Leaded gas is available, check with your local airport or performance shop. Lead was a performance additive for gasoline. It lined the valve seats, and prevented the valves from beating into the cylinder head. The problem has been solved with hardened valve seats.
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
I basically second this. This should have no effect on ammo at all. From what I understand, 99.9999% of all the lead in bullets are from the recycled stuff, mostly imported.
Most ammo only has a lead core. (Atleast most Western made ammo.) Most bullets are not 100% lead, just their core. There are solid lead bullets, but those are definitely not as common as the regular lead core with copper jacket. If somehow lead core bullets are banned, then just switch to mild steel core ammo. Almost all of the Russian and Eastern European milsurp ammo has a mild steel core, and that stuff is extremely cheap compared to the US made lead core stuff. (Steel is generally much cheaper than lead).
ETA - As for "green bullets", I wonder how well a hard plastic/polymer core would function? Wouldn't a polymer/plastic core bullet jacketed with copper be somewhat cheaper to make?
Apparently this smelter specialized in high purity product used in electronics. Not at all like the junk lead used in ammunition that comes nearly all from recycled sources.
I basically second this. This should have no effect on ammo at all. From what I understand, 99.9999% of all the lead in bullets are from the recycled stuff, mostly imported.
Most ammo only has a lead core. (Atleast most Western made ammo.) Most bullets are not 100% lead, just their core. There are solid lead bullets, but those are definitely not as common as the regular lead core with copper jacket. If somehow lead core bullets are banned, then just switch to mild steel core ammo. Almost all of the Russian and Eastern European milsurp ammo has a mild steel core, and that stuff is extremely cheap compared to the US made lead core stuff. (Steel is generally much cheaper than lead).
ETA - As for "green bullets", I wonder how well a hard plastic/polymer core would function? Wouldn't a polymer/plastic core bullet jacketed with copper be somewhat cheaper to make?
edit on 19-12-2013 by buni11687 because: (no reason given)
buni11687
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
ETA - As for "green bullets", I wonder how well a hard plastic/polymer core would function? Wouldn't a polymer/plastic core bullet jacketed with copper be somewhat cheaper to make?
Bullets get their stopping power from the weight x velocity of the lead impacting it's target.
I do not thing you could get a 230g poly/plastic core to have the same "punch" as a ball of lead wrapped in copper. As the copper is not the main weight of the round being fired. It's more of a container / shredding effect, and I do believe aerodynamic effect on the projectile.
Thus, poly-core ammo would be akin to getting hit with a copper-coated (thinly I might add) nerf dart fired at 850fps.
Might leave a welt, even break skin.. Kill... doubt it..
I could be wrong, and no I am not volunteering to be the test dummy for a copper-coated nerf dart impact test.
-Cygedit on 2013-12-19T06:00:07-06:00136120007 by Cygnis because: (no reason given)edit on 2013-12-19T06:01:11-06:00136120111 by Cygnis because: (no reason given)extra DIV
reply to post by ChesterJohn
Anyone who says that lead is being banned because the lead smelting process by definition causes ground water contaimination and air pollution is a luddite. There are no environmental effects that any industry creates, which could not be mitigated by more stringent environmental protection systems being installed at the location. There are scrubbers which can filter pollutants from exhaust chimneys, and if liquids or particulates are getting to the water table from the smelting process, then merely cutting that route off by properly containing the contaminant would be far from impossible.
The plant closure in the article, was not necessary in order to safe guard the environment, in the least. Utter rubbish. There have been cases (more widely discussed during the Obamacare debates) where company closures were nothing more than politically motivated levers, applied to make the government look like bastards. Bastards they may be, but the fact is that smelting in this day and age is nothing like as difficult as it used to be, and could be made much safer for the environment if the speed of uptake of new technology was as it should be.
As for the ban itself, if the industries which create lead bullets had taken up greener initiatives and environmental protection systems earlier on, then this ban would never have been enforceable. It is the blatant greed and stupidity of those who doggedly carried on crapping all over thier locality, who are to blame for this sham, and no one the hell else.
Anyone who says that lead is being banned because the lead smelting process by definition causes ground water contaimination and air pollution is a luddite. There are no environmental effects that any industry creates, which could not be mitigated by more stringent environmental protection systems being installed at the location. There are scrubbers which can filter pollutants from exhaust chimneys, and if liquids or particulates are getting to the water table from the smelting process, then merely cutting that route off by properly containing the contaminant would be far from impossible.
The plant closure in the article, was not necessary in order to safe guard the environment, in the least. Utter rubbish. There have been cases (more widely discussed during the Obamacare debates) where company closures were nothing more than politically motivated levers, applied to make the government look like bastards. Bastards they may be, but the fact is that smelting in this day and age is nothing like as difficult as it used to be, and could be made much safer for the environment if the speed of uptake of new technology was as it should be.
As for the ban itself, if the industries which create lead bullets had taken up greener initiatives and environmental protection systems earlier on, then this ban would never have been enforceable. It is the blatant greed and stupidity of those who doggedly carried on crapping all over thier locality, who are to blame for this sham, and no one the hell else.
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