Monster of Glamis Castle

hello all.

I'm sure that eeryone knows the legend about the monster of glamis castle, so I won't elaborate. It is possible that the deformed child actually existed? What about its supposed life span (about 140 years) and its chamber being walled off from the rest of the castle? This is because, if you count the no. of windows on the outside and inside, there are always four more on the inside than outside.

I heard that the 'creature' was the son of one of the earls back in the 1800's.

Scientifically, I suppose its possible for such a child to exist, after all Joseph/John Merrick (the Elephant Man) was a real person. The only way for the Glamis creature to have lived for so long would be due to a genetic abnormality - I believe that the stages of a foetus from egg to human include a kind of 'amphibian stage' - if the child's body stopped for whatever reason at that time, he would appear 'monstrous' to the people around him. It may well have resulted in unnatural longevity.

Some years ago a cousin (I believe) of the Queen was discovered in an asylum having been believed dead since childhood, so it is quite possible for the creature of Glamis to have been hidden away for all of his life.

And then we have Albert Victor, Duke of Clarence - believed by some people to have been Jack the Ripper.

Yes - its quite possible for the establisment to cover up such things as they wish kept away from the prying eyes of the public.


[edit on 18-11-2004 by Pisky]

This sounds interesting. Is there a place where i could read the story?
I like to spook myself

This is the basic story ...

The legend of the Monster of Glamis relates to somewhere around the turn of the 18th/19th centuries, when a grotesque and bloated monster was born to be Heir of Glamis. Completely misshapen, he had no neck, very small arms and legs, and looked like "a flabby egg", half-human, half-monster. In spite of such deformities he is said to have been immensely strong and is reputed to have lived for nearly 150 years, some people thinking that he finally died in 1921. He lived in a special room at the castle, where he was kept from everybody's eye. His existence was known to only four men at one time, the Earl of Strathmore, his heir, the family lawyer and the factor of the estate. At the age of 21 each succeeding heir was told the secret and shown the rightful Earl. Succeeding family lawyers and factors were also told of the secret, but at any one time no more than four knew of the existence of the Monster. As no Countess of Strathmore was ever told the story, one Lady Strathmore, having heard rumours approach the then factor, Mr Ralston, who flatly refused to reveal the secret saying "it is fortunate you do not know the truth for if you did you would never be happy", a reference presumably to the unhappy state of several Earls of Strathmore during the suspected lifetime of the Monster. Even now it is suspected that the remains of the Monster are still retained in the secret room. Mr Ralston, who was described as a shrewd, hard-headed Scot, would never sleep in the castle under any circumstances. One night, when he had worked late, a sudden snowstorm came on. Pressed to stay for the night he refused to do so and insisted that a path be dug in the snow to his house nearly a mile away. Offering strength to the belief of a hideous monster being born into the family, is a portrait hung in the drawing-room. It depicts a previous Earl of Strathmore with his two sons and an indescribably ugly deformed dwarf.

www.fife.50megs.com...

OOF****That is what nightmares are made out of...

Thanks,Pisky

The story reminds me of a family member...

Its very likely to be true. Some of my family live in the areas surrounding Glamis castle and there are some kinda spooky old wives tales about how this 'abnormal human' would be seen every so often in the wooded areas and waterways. The thing about him having deformed limbs would fit, as many of the accounts ive heard talk of this poor being not being able to walk, only swim very fast, and of being looked after or led along by one or two people whenever it was seen. I'll try and find out more if I can, but some people talk of local prostitutes being payed richly to tend to a very unusually deformed man at around this same time period, some even say he may have fathered not 1, but a whole brood of children, tho its believed that none survived more than a few months after birth.

of all the stories of this nature, involving plots and cover-ups of the nobility, this is the most likely to be true. Either way, it sure is interesting!

Speaking from a strictly scientific standpoints, this particular "monster" sound very plasuible. The description of no neck, no arms, etc sound very much like a description of not all that unheard of birth defects. One in particular, quadramembral limbs deficiency, results in shortened arms and legs. This would produce an "ugly dwarf" as was referenced above. The lack of an obvious neck has also been witnessed as a modern birth defect.

As for the lifespan of 140 years, this is scientifically unplausable but not impossible. Theoretically there are mutations that could allow for lifespan enhancements and there is work being conducted in the field of genetics, particularly with telomerase, to ehncance human lifespans. It could of course also just be an exageration or inaccuracy of the tale.

As for the 'amphibian stage' of human development, a fetus that was born at this stage, or with the physical characteristics of this stage would be unable to survive.

Sounds like we can chalk one up to a sad case of too much imbreeding.

contraa, is quadramembral limbs deficiency hereditary, or does it occur through some unrelated random mutations of genes? If it is hereditary, then for sure it is due to inbreeding.

Glamis Castle is the ancestral home the Bowes-Lyon family, from which the Earls of Strathmore come. For all of you who are not interested in royal families' genealogy, that's the late Queen Mother's and Princess Margareth's family. That means that the Bowes-Lyon's blood runs in the British Royal family. I remember reading an interview to the Queen Mother (she was an outstanding, outgoing woman, very different from the usual "British Royals" clich� and much beloved by her subjects), and she talked about this secret. She said that the women of the family were forbidden even to talk about it and, if a guest tried asking her father or her brother about it, they became very nervous and changed subject immediately. Now this is serious: Scottish castles proudly boast their ghost and mystery traditions, and Glamis is not immune to this. If you go there on tour, like I did, you are told by the guides every kind of fantastic and bizzare stories about ghosts, deals with the Devil and so on. I was even pointed to the rest of the group as sitting on a ghost's favorite chair! But not a word about the "dark secret", and talking about it is not encouraged. So something's clearly amiss here.

The reference above mentioned a painting of the family, including this unfortunate fellow. I looked and could not find an image of this painting. Can anyone help me out?

Is this where the hunchback of Notre Dame came from? Sorry I just can't stop thinking of quasimoto (sp) when i read this story. Very interesting indeed. As far as this secret room goes, has anyone ever been inside of the place? Is the room just surrounded by walls and no door? Someone said that the creature was seen outside so that would imply there was a door. So i guess my question is has anyone ever seen this secret room? If it has a door then it must not be too secret. Sorry if this doesn't make any sense I've bee up for like 23 hours. God Bless the military

[edit on 22-11-2004 by USAFSF]

I know the picture you talk about: I have it in one of my books. It's a classical 18th century painting of an aristocratic family, with the Earl wearing an armour and a whig, his spouse sitting on a chair and their children all around. One of these children has a very ill and weak appearance, but there's nothing grotesque or bizzare about him. It's just a boy. I don't know how this painting could spawn such a belief of a freak being born in the family. Noble families suffered a lot from "poor breeding" (to use a vulgar but effective word), and numerous suzerains had birth defects or genetic problems which plagued them for the rest of their lives: the most famous was Philip IV, the last Hapsburg king of Spain, nicknamed "the dying king". He suffered from a number of diseases since he was born (he was epilepthic and could barely walk, being forced to live in bed for very long periods), but nobody ever questioned his legitimate claim to the throne and nobody ever dreamed about hiding him in some God-forsaken room. Anyway, I'll look if a can find a link to this famous paintining and will post here later.

Nope, I haven't been able to find any link to the picture on Net. Hope I have more time tomorrow. In the meanwhile, hear this. The "monster" is supposed to be born in 1821, but I haven't been able to find any information about the Bowes-Lyon family for that period, so I don't know during which Earl's life it was supposed to happen. But there is a confirmed fact: in 1898 some guests staying at the castle decided to get to the bottom of the story. While the Earl and his heir were away for business, they bribed the butlers to have every single door opened. Then they proceeded to tie an handkerchief to every window. Afterward, they went outside and looked if any windows didn't have their mark. Four windows didn't have an handkerchief on. When the Earl returned and found out what had happened he was really, really mad (who wouldn't?). Also, at about the same time, the estate's factor (described by many as a stout Scotsman) firmly refused to sleep in the castle under no circustances. One winter day he was forced to stay behind till late and a snowstorm began to rage. He declined the Earl's invitation to stay over and braved the storm to get back to his house. When the Earl's wife asked him why he wouldn't sleep at the castle he replied "Ma'am I can't tell: you wouldn't sleep anymore". There are also rumours that, in the 20s, during some renovation works , a worker accidentaly uncovered an hidden passage going... nobody knows where. He was given a very large sum on condition that he repaired the damage alone and left the country to live abroad, never to return. Now, don't tell me this didn't spur your imagination...

I'd love to go to Glamis, the castle looks stunningly beautiful, but I don't think I'll be staying there at night.

... a strange creature with thin arms and legs and a beast-like head, described by one percipient as "a hellish combination of all things foul and animal.". This young lady, sleeping in a "haunted tower room" in the castle in the 19th century, was awakened by the strange apparition or creature, which vanished when someone else rattled the bolt on the door before entering the room. Was an underworld or non-human rapist interrupted or frightened away?

Changelings, halflings, and human monsters

As I had nothing else to do for a couple of hours tonight I decided to google on the phrase 'monster of glamis'. Good god the facts vary on this one!
one of the more detailed accounts I found was here:

Moster of Glamis

Everything about this story seems to have been changed at some point. Alot of it has a certain 'urban myth' smell to it don't you think?
Google the phrase and you'll see what i mean.
Would make a damn good movie though

Wayne...

reply to post by Kakugo


Can you scan the image from your book and post it on the net? I have been searching for this picture online for two years now.

Canadian Man

I think it might have been one of those problems during pregnancy that created the monster of Glamis.
It's possible that the 'monster' existed. They'd probably find the remains in the secret room, if they can find that.

I think it might have been one of those problems during pregnancy that created the monster of Glamis.
It's possible that the 'monster' existed. They'd probably find the remains in the secret room, if they can find that.