Belgium Senate Approves Measure Allowing Doctors to Euthanize Children

I know how everybody loves to talk about freedom of choice.
I remember when health insurance was a choice.
Won't be too many more years and there will be mandatory euthanasia for economically unviable people.

They keep removing the human from humanity a tiny piece at a time.

Bassago,
I saw this story and almost started a thread about it, but decided I wasn't up to a huge fight that day.

I do recall, though, that the article I saw said that families would receive psychological counseling before their choices were approved. It discussed that young kids aren't truly able to make decisions regarding life/death for themselves...

I felt reassured that there would be checks and interviews and thorough investigation as to options before any choice made by the child and/or his family were acknowledged.

I don't know where the article was...
I'll see if I can find it.

But, I'm not opposed to euthanasia, nor to sterilization of certain individuals - for example, the family they found in Australia with the inbred, genetically defective kids; 4 generations of incestuous reproduction. A nuclear family extended outward from incestuous coupling of the great-great-grandparents, a brother and sister.

How can society help those people, truly? They certainly should not be allowed to continue to reproduce, in my opinion.

Flame away, ATS - but some people SHOULD NOT be allowed to BREED. And others who have been injured or are terminally ill are suffering so much that Euthanasia is a mercy.

reply to post by wildtimes


In fairness I believe that countries that allow this are well intentioned and doing a good job with oversight partly due to the controversial nature of the issue. There is probably going to be some hysteria from the folks who are against it, especially those who fear "euthanasia creep."

My only concern is that there are abuses they will now spread to the kids as well. Particularly the issues with using euthanasia to 1) cover up medical mistakes because all doctors make those and 2) implementation without the explicit request of the person.

I have no problems with it otherwise including those suffering from severe depression. Sometimes things like that cannot be fixed by doctors or medicines, I know this from first hand experience.

Hadn't heard of the inbred Australian family, gross. Yeah, multiple sterilizations for them.

reply to post by Bassago


Yeah, there's a thread on it here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

littled16
reply to post by Bassago

 

I can understand the need for euthanasia as a choice for families of terminal patients or those who are doomed to suffer for the rest of their lives, but where do you draw the line? What you posted says that it is already being abused. I wonder how long it will be before euthanasia is offered as an option for our elderly loved one's right along with home health care and nursing home care? Disgusting if it ever comes to that! Kid born not to your liking? Put them to sleep like a lame horse and try again! Despicable, but not beyond the realm of what society is capable of.

3 states already allow for euthanasia for the elderly.

Wait till the 'vast majority' actually read and understand what all is in the ACA laws concerning end of life care and cost benefit care.
Even better for the progressive states that are already set up for all this.[sarcasm]

Give it a bit for other states to catch up, but all I can say is just wait and see what happens when a person is poor and on medicaid/care. With euthanasia laws in tact and Doctor choice laws. [latter one meaning a doctor can override a family's decision about ending someones life or denying care based on cost effectiveness. I belive that law was passed in 2012 in Washington and was on the books to be passed here in Oregon. Funny how much this crap never makes the news or if it does, barely gets noticed.

reply to post by palmalBlue2

Wait till the 'vast majority' actually read and understand what all is in the ACA laws concerning end of life care and cost benefit care.

Oh please. You are not talking about the mythical "Death Panel" are you?

reply to post by wildtimes

No, Im not.
Laws on the books here in Oregon that already back up mandates in the ACA and are already being implemented and I am not sure if there is a court challenge yet or not.

I think choices like this should be with the families and their doctors , not mandates with no choice and or say.
I can understand when a person reaches a certain age and has a terminal illness, not prolonging through treatment, but when we give up the right to have a say then it sets all of us up for a slippery slope. Just my own opinion on that.

reply to post by palmalBlue2

We totally have a "right to say", now.

You can refuse - or demand - ANY treatment at ANY medical facility. Many people are unaware of this, but it is the truth.

"Non-compliance" is what they call it when treatment is refused. (Like me, I refuse to have mammograms; and only infrequently go with blood tests, which usually I ask for when I want them. I have yet to be turned down, and don't expect to be in the future.)

But demanding additional treatment when there is no hope is not only a waste of the doctors' time, and an unnecessary and EXPENSIVE way to go, but cruel to the dying. My dad died a bit over 3 years ago.
The doctors told us, there is nothing more we can do. My dad, meanwhile, was pleading to be discharged, to go home for his final days.

It was totally a family/doctor decision, based on my dad's previously filed "DNR."

I'm glad, though, to hear that you are not a Palin-tool.

ETA:
There are times when additional treatment is useless. A family fighting to keep a person's body alive when the person is no longer able to function is wasting bed space, money, and being selfish.
How doctors choose to die

Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call "futile care" being performed on people. That's when doctors bring the cutting edge of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life. The patient will be cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the intensive care unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day. What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist.

I cannot count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words that vary only slightly: "Promise me that if you find me like this you'll kill me." They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions stamped "NO CODE" to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I have even seen it as a tattoo.

To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing. Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they'll vent. "How can anyone do that to their family members?" they'll ask. I suspect it's one reason physicians have higher rates of alcohol abuse and depression than professionals in most other fields. I know it's one reason I stopped participating in hospital care for the last 10 years of my practice.

SLAYER69
reply to post by Bassago

 

I've been on the fence about some euthanasia cases/stories. I can see why some fully cognitive adults may choose that option. Now the children on the other hand. I as a parent would be tortured having to make that call. I know parents have to make the infamous 'Pull the plug' call everyday all over the world but man that would just kill me as a pop.

Seems like a slippery slope. Don't get me wrong, if one of my two were brain dead or were suffering needlessly with no hope of ever recovering or finding a cessation of pain and suffering I would make the call grudgingly.

But I would, even though it would tear my heart out to do so....

edit on 12-12-2013 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Fantastic answer. I was reluctant to post a reply because I ouldnt quite word it right. You did. Nice one.

Bassago

NoNameNeeded

depression?? where are you getting this?

From the original article. Is this incorrect?

Dr Paul Saba of Physicians for Social Justice, is very concerned about the situation in Belgium. “They are already euthanising people who are depressed or tired of life because they have taken the interpretations of saying physical and/or psychological suffering

This does not apply to children, which you falsely concluded it did. it has nothing to do with the new law. of course im not going to argue the facts, there are obviously problems there, but again, thats not how the new law works, which is the only thing im here to defend with correct information.

extreme cases should have the legal option.

reply to post by NoNameNeeded

thats not how the new law works, which is the only thing im here to defend with correct information. extreme cases should have the legal option.

No one is saying extreme cases don't exist for adults or children. What you appear to be saying is that doctors are beyond question, don't cover up mistakes and always follow the letter of the law. They have gone over the line with adults but that could never happen with the kids, right?

Okaaay. Your faith astounds me.

reply to post by Bassago

Since this can be administered to someone suffering from depression even it seems quite a dangerous expansion of the current law.

Lets look at some interesting abhorent notes and perhaps see a picture forming

www.nytimes.com...

Belgium Pedophilia Scandal /Did Authorities Cover Up Its Scope?: Book Revives Fear of Grand Conspiracy:

The five women and the male transvestite who testified anonymously in Belgium under the code-name "X" described an underworld of snuff movies and sadomasochist torture that was almost impossible to believe. And they said that politicians and other highly placed members of society were involved. The conventional wisdom is that the witnesses were either deranged or were recounting fantasies. It was, in the jargon of psychiatrists, a bad case of false-memory syndrome.

www.vaticancrimes.us...
Catholig Clergy Pedophilia: Vatican Immunity prevents Belgian act to justice for thousands of victims

The Ghent court, overseeing the lawsuit filed by 39 alleged victims of sexual abuse, has stated that the Holy See should be "considered a protected by international law state that can not be tried by a foreign court ". The court thus sided with the argument posed by Vatican lawyers, which held that "the immunity of the Holy See is not subject to discussion."

further:

A huge scandal of pedophilia within the Catholic church erupted in Belgium in 2010. The bishop of Bruges, Roger Vangheluwe, admitted abuses two of his nephews and was forced to resign. After this case was made know, thousands of testimonies of sexual abuse by religious began to come to light. Belgian Catholic hierarchy, accused of having kept silence, is the subject of a major judicial investigation.

en.wikipedia.org...-up
Criticism of police investigations

"Authorities were criticised for various aspects of the case. Several incidents suggest that despite several warnings to the authorities, Dutroux's intentions were not properly followed-up. Dutroux had offered money to a police informant to provide him with girls, and told him that he was constructing a cell in his basement. His mother also wrote a second letter to the police, claiming that he held girls captive in his houses. While Dutroux was actually under police camera surveillance the night he kidnapped Marchal and Lambrecks; the police had only programmed the camera to operate during the daylight hours of 8 a.m. to 6 p.m.[5]"

Now you dont have to be too bright to see that there is much more at play here. Remember that doctors sometimes have indescretions. How hard would it be to pressure a doctor in Belgium to administer the right psychotropics, induce depression on a minor ( sexual abuse victim) suffering from delusion of false memory syndrome, then after a time euthanize. Problem solved. The entrenched pedophila in Belgium high society can continue away from the Worlds eye.

I smell a bigger play here. I do grant that children should not be subjected to indefinite medical procedures. Further as Govt finances collapse (tax shelters for the uber rich) or even another too big to fail Bank needs bailing out by the taxpayer, I see that the disenfranchised will be triaged out of this Mortal Coil

Please dont flame me just keep an open mind, Doctors, priests and Politicians are not always your best friend