Carrying Out Orders Is Mind Control.

reply to post by Bluesma


I have worked in front line situations for years and I think most would prefer not being victims but some are more victimised than others, there is statistical proof, depending on families, origins, some because of their demeanor or other conditions.

I also think that the games that are advertised and offered to growing minds and an evolving humanity are purposefully slanted towards violence. Just as the media keeps people just at the edge of hating and mistrusting each other in a divide and conquer modus operandi, TBTB per se are keen on having a nation of young men that are aggressive and fit the psychological state of 'we can mould you into a soldier / political pawn for our purpose at our leisure should we choose to'.

Again it is controlled manipulation, for purpose rather than choice. However human DNA is evolving, it still has the genetic memory of the sum of humanity so far and that includes many years of feudalism and behaviour far from idealistic.

There could be specific psychological control that sways humanity towards peace but nations won't do that whilst there are nations that won't. There would have to be global acceptance of peace and guiding humanity towards an ethical humanitarian path for that to happen.

I suggest you all watch the episode called "do we have free will" of "through the wormhole with morgan freeman". They interview researchers trying to answer that kind of questions. And to the question "do we have free will?", neuroscientists are starting to say "no".


I can't watch this video on youtube because "not available in my country"

There is a disturbing sequence about alqaeda and "designing conflicts".

Revolution9

Whenever we do what another human being wants us to do as an order we are allowing ourselves to be controlled by another.

I offer you some examples:

Those who hijacked the planes and flew them into the towers had been indoctrinated to the point where they were prepared to die horribly and take many others with them for the sake of what they considered to be a holy act for Allah and all Muslims of the world.

That's mind control. When a person allows themselves to be indoctrinated into doing something that their better nature goes against........that's mind control.

In the military one is trained to obey orders without question. Soldiers have to do some horrible things when on active duty.

The one's who, do so because that's what they signed up for. When you join the military you're given choices based on a test you take as to what job you want to perform. Some guys go into it already knowing they want to fight. Some guys take the test, and that's the only option they have because of their intelligence and aptitude. People like that, basically, need to be controlled because they have no self-discipline. If they did, they would have been better educated, thereby giving them more choices. Just like civilian life really. With all due respect, you seem to be blurring the line between this type of control and the first type you pointed out.

Thirdly, even I am mind controlled by an external source. As a follower of a Spiritual discipline I have willingly given myself over to carry out the wishes of another. They are indeed controlling me on a very deep level and this affects my behavior and what decisions I make.

Then that's your choice. Some people however follow paths of their own choosing because it feels right. Does this path of yours feel right? If it does, then you're one those who, on some level, WANT to be controlled in this fashion because you lack self-discipline in it. That's not necessarily a bad thing if your spiritual discipline is a peaceful one.

Yes, to a certain extent we are all controlled. But some people make a conscious effort to keep the control from external sources to a bare minimum. By that I mean, there are parts of everyone in society that need to be controlled. To drive, you need a licence. To get a job, you need an education. A good job at least. To stay out of jail, you need to obey the laws. These control mechanisms were put in place to keep order in society where an ever growing number of people lack self-discipline. But as Rickymouse pointed out, things have tilted off center to where those good intentions just don't work too well anymore. They seem to be shifting over to controlling more of peoples' lives then need to be.

Good topic. S&F

reply to post by Revolution9

There are entities of control that we manifest in group behaviour that are fuelled by us all as long as we perpetuate their significance and existence.

Do you know what it is that helps manifest them and what fuels them?


Is it Fear?


Fear as opposed to love.


These two are what everything stem from in this universe, Fear and Love.

That is my belief.

Bluesma
reply to post by Revolution9

 

I wrote World Consciousness, but that would automatically imply World Conscience.

I am just hoping for a time when we are all aware enough not to abuse each other, I guess. It is idealistic.

That is not everyone else's wish though is it. Perhaps even an impossible dream.

It appears to me that most people want a functioning world of peace and security. They want a less painful world. They are the humanitarians and philanthropists among us.

I think it is more complicated than that.
Though it is a rather common concept that some exist who wish to abuse others or be tyrants of one sort or another, which gets in the way of such a "global consciousness" as you refer to...
I think just as many exist who want to be abused and be victims of some sort or another.

In everyday life, I witness the many perks and pleasures of this game, from both ends. No one feels more "good" and "pure" and "innocent' as they do when there exists in the vicinity someone else who is "bad", "stained" and "evil" !

That game is fun on a deep level- a level that needs to stay slightly underneath conscious awareness in order to play the game.


We now have the technology to create these amazing video games, which can make imaginary worlds and characters look real and even 3D in some cases! We can live out whatever we'd like to experience in those!

And what do we choose? What are millions paying money to play every day?

Games in which we fight monsters and villains; games in which the world is being overrun by evil and we have to try to save it. Games in which each of us has to collect energy or experience to gain strength and better survive in a sometimes harsh, sometimes downright hellish environment. War and half conscious zombies... People like this. That might be why we created, and contineu to create, collectively, the gameboard of earth as it is!

edit on 9-12-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-12-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)

I understand you totally. Yes, it is complicated. Exactly as you say. Thanks so much for coming here with this. It's great to have your perspective.

I have had my share in the past of what you refer to. I have seen it all first hand, too. I am well away from all that. I behaved that way unconsciously. I had a childhood trauma that seemed to impact me in terms of pushing my consciousness into a very tiny portion of my mind. I did things when younger without being properly aware of what I was doing. That happens to us all in some ways I guess earlier in our development as we are developing in awareness.

I made consciousness and awareness seeking the focus of my life because of the troubles my own behaviour brought me. I informed my own decision making will to make choices about my behaviour that would be less damaging.

You are so right. For some people the games you refer to are forms of entertainment and have been perfected.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


I think you misunderstood me. I didn't express myself effectively.

I mean to refer to a part of us (which some may call a soul) which is "playing the game"- not the human physical part which is capable of suffering. I do not claim that suffering doesn't exist, nor victimization... only that our souls may have chosen suffering or victimization for that particular life. I am talking about choices made above and beyond our physical bodies and their automatic repulsions to pain and death.

InhaleExhale
reply to post by Revolution9

 

There are entities of control that we manifest in group behaviour that are fuelled by us all as long as we perpetuate their significance and existence.

Do you know what it is that helps manifest them and what fuels them?


Is it Fear?


Fear as opposed to love.


These two are what everything stem from in this universe, Fear and Love.

That is my belief.

I think people manufacture these out of need. Some wish to manipulate us for various reasons and they make them to control people with a clear aim in mind of controlling behaviour to bring about a specific objective.

Our wills fuel them. Our obedience perpetuates them. It is an incredibly complicated matrix. I am sure there are those with the means and the data who have developed this manipulation via control mechanisms to perfection. They have achieved this in advertising, politics, the military, secret services, the work place, the sex industry and every walk of life.

We are all vulnerable to manipulation. Awareness of this will certainly help all of us to know when it is being done, by whom and for what motive.

I don't believe every time you obey a command it should be considered mind control. I obey laws because I have a conscience, I don't make hardships for anyone because I have a conscience and I use my own free will to follow my own conscience. I don't disagree that humans are "designed" and conditioned to obey. I use "mind control" on people all the time, to whatever means I desire, usually things that make their and my life easier.

Just because someone asks you to do something politely or you already know its something you need to do to obtain the outcome you want to obtain does not mean its mind control. It means it's something you want.

Our destiny and choice are our own, no one calls the shots unless you let them and want them to. No one can influence you but yourself, reasoning is you friend.

Everyone is submissive to a point. If you work for someone, you answer to, you obey. Self employed? Obey the customer. married, children..... OBEY. You will do what I say when I say.....

Rectorate
I don't believe every time you obey a command it should be considered mind control. I obey laws because I have a conscience, I don't make hardships for anyone because I have a conscience and I use my own free will to follow my own conscience. I don't disagree that humans are "designed" and conditioned to obey. I use "mind control" on people all the time, to whatever means I desire, usually things that make their and my life easier.

Just because someone asks you to do something politely or you already know its something you need to do to obtain the outcome you want to obtain does not mean its mind control. It means it's something you want.

Our destiny and choice are our own, no one calls the shots unless you let them and want them to. No one can influence you but yourself, reasoning is you friend.

Yes and here is a detail of your pattern of behaviour. It's a healthy pattern.

However, speculatively, what if an agent of those you are obeying told you to do something that was against your conscience? Also, who formed your conscience? What is it made of?

Those are the questions I am exploring here.

There are many humans living on our planet who do some very disturbing things. You and I would not do them...OR WOULD WE???

By conditioning is it possible to order someone to do an action that is contrary to their conscience? Are there techniques available to control a human into doing your will, acting as an agent for you and their mind being controlled by the instruction you give?

I act from my conscience. The construct of my conscience was designed by an external agency. I did choose this agency to be the construct of my conscience. It is possible for an external agency to be the very construct (or even obliterator) of one's conscience.

A soldier in civilian life, even if another civilian ordered him to, would not normally obey the order to shoot somebody. He would more likely punch the one who made such an insane request. Yet under certain conditions and with the right authority he will do that action without hesitation. It's his job! Who is he obeying? Why is he obeying them? What is the motive of the authority giving the order?

My motive here is to expand our awareness of Mind Control. That is the only boundary of this thread and there is no argument, just observation and everyone's contribution is unique. Please anyone be as diverse as you like about Mind Control and what obeying orders means to you.

Interesting convo. Want to throw something in the mix here though.

"Following orders".. for the most part humans dont want to kill, and if they do.. its not usually up close and personal. You have to compartmentalize it all to be efficient and last... particularly in like a war or struggle situation. Humans have this incredible ability to selectively give up their free will.. at their choosing. "Following orders" gives a person or group a green card to do these things " against their will".. but with great efficiency and precision. Kind of a psychological get out of guilt free card. Some folks are very good at following orders not because they are weak, but they understand and utilize the compartmentalization talent. Others have to be remade.. like a certain percentage in basic training.. and they arent always efficient. Believe me.. battle deeds and following orders is more psychology than hardware. You gotta get your software ( human element) under control... and that is completely understanding and manipulating free will.

Consider the terms " in the zone". "when the light goes green", etc. YOu give your own self the trigger.

Revolution9

I hope my philosophical musing here offers an interesting perspective to some members here interested in such studies. I would love to discuss this more here if anyone is interested.

I've been intrigued by the subject of mind control and neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) since 08, when I read that Obama was using hypnosis and NLP in his campaign speeches, and even more after James Arthur Ray killed three people in a sweat lodge. I had read about MK Ultra and Project Monarch long before, but it was researching the NLP and Ericksonian hypnosis techniques that helped me understand how it could actually work. It's a deep subject. I'll just throw a couple points into the mix for discussion.

1 -- Fight or Flight Instinct. When we feel vulnerable and threatened, our instincts automatically tell us to fight the threat or flee the threat. Every day, we're bombarded with "threats" -- the knockout game, Iran is developing nukes, lack of medical care, our economy is about to collapse, and on and on and on. This is exactly how the PTB want it. They want us to be afraid, worried, and constantly on edge. But who do we fight? Who do we trust? The Democrats? The Republicans? The Libertarians? Christians? Muslims? Cops? Blacks? Whites? Illegal immigrants? Or, where do we run? Is any other state better than where we are? Another country? Even if it's better now, will it stay that way? "They" want it this way. When we operate from fear, we operate from a position of weakness. We're more likely to make poor choices. When we feel it necessary to protect ourselves, we look for the cause... someone to blame... and are more likely to throw everyone else under the bus in the process. So they now have us operating from a position of mental and emotional weakness, alienating those around us and isolating ourselves, acting in defense rather than on offense. Works for them... not so much for us.

2 -- We do indeed condition ourselves, but it can go either way. It's up to us to learn to question and challenge. One example: My dad used to have a little game he played to demonstrate how we limit ourselves. He would draw nine dots on a paper and challenge others to draw four lines thru all the dots without lifting the pencil from the paper and not retracing your line. It could be done, but few could figure out how. My dad used that to show us how we limit ourselves and how we need to think "outside the box." My dad taught us to not only question authority, but defy it when appropriate and/or necessary. Example two: When my kids were old enough to watch TV and therefore commercials, I taught them to "spot the lie." What was the commercial trying to make them believe if they bought that product? My son cracked me up one day when he said, "Look Mom -- that beer commercial is trying to make men believe they'll have all those girls in bikinis if they drink their beer." Haha! He got it. He still does. It's not easy, and it's almost always our own faulty premises that get in our way, but if we're open to new truths, it's do-able.

3 -- It's also about who we trust to fill the blanks we cannot fill in for ourselves.... or if we trust at all. Using 9/11 as an example, I have no personal knowledge or experience to decide for myself what happened. I was not there... I was not part of the plan... I did not investigate the evidence... all I know is what others have told me... according to what others told them... and on and on. I've read analyses from both Truthers and Debunkers, and I cannot prove or disprove either one. So... what to believe? For me, I believe neither side. I don't trust my own judgment nor anyone else enough to take their word for it. I know I cannot trust the government, but I don't know that they're lying this time just because they've lied before and since. So I do not know and I do not have an opinion. I think sometimes that's the hardest thing for people to do: Admit that they don't know and keep an open mind. We are conditioned every day to pick a side so to speak, and we do.

I could discuss this for hours. The possibilities are endless and fascinating to explore and ponder! It's a great study of the human mind and heart.

reply to post by Revolution9

Actually I've walked on both sides of this, my conditioning was poverty in this society, I was an agent of the streets. I needed to be feared and respected, notorious. In joining a "social club" of sorts, I was able to obtain these things through direction and orders. I was essentially controlled into doing some terrible things because I needed to be respected. Growing up poor, living in a broken home all I had ever known was fear and sadness. The two things anyone wanting to be controlled, has. I was an absolute menace.

One day, after a near death experience and the consequences leading to jail time, I realized I had nothing. No diploma or GED, no job history, no credit or cash, no home, no family, no friends, etc. I knew there had to be a better way, I had become the very thing I hated most, a casualty of the Oligarchy, another teen statistic. Hopeless with no future.

I fixed my mind, reconditioned myself to listen to myself. I learned to use the manipulation I had been taught and subject to, to start doing good things. I am teaching the people that I "control" how to not become "controlled" they have finally questioned why they should listen to me at all. I tell them that is exactly the answer I look for now. When they can question me, their "mentor", they're free and understand what mind control is and how it shapes us.

reply to post by Rectorate


Yesterday, I was reading about the subconscious, or unconscious, as some like to refer to it. We have it on good authority that professionals looking deeply into the operations of the brain tend to believe that 95-99 per cent of what we think and do are motivated by unconscious directives that make themselves present in our conscious minds and prominently reside there as a cover from which we rationalize in our thinking why we think or do such things.

None of us are likely to admit to that being the case with our personal selves. We like to think we are smarter than that and always see through the flim-flam. But rest assured, there are various agencies out there from teaching us to control our bowels, to car salesmen, to all sorts of public and private PR campaigns out there intended on changing our minds along to a multitude of their interests. Worse, we recognize, rationally, some of those efforts consciously but that makes little difference to the unconscious mind. Free will is not some solid, solitary pinnacle of self-sufficiency rejecting all outside influences. You could not exist as a creature of society and culture if you could do so. Regardless of what level of separateness you think you have achieved by rejecting some areas of society and culture, you have mere substituted a different or milder version and left in place, undiscovered consciously, the more blatant.

The mere thinking that you have a choice is self-delusional. Yet, the system works. Except these days, it is being exploited as never before by the same knowledge that tells us that our beliefs, opinions and attitudes are springing forth from the unconscious mind. The better they understand how that 95-99 per cent of our minds work, the more efficient they will become in controlling what goes in to get what they want coming out.

Aliensun
reply to post by Rectorate

 

Yesterday, I was reading about the subconscious, or unconscious, as some like to refer to it. We have it on good authority that professionals looking deeply into the operations of the brain tend to believe that 95-99 per cent of what we think and do are motivated by unconscious directives that make themselves present in our conscious minds and prominently reside there as a cover from which we rationalize in our thinking why we think or do such things.

None of us are likely to admit to that being the case with our personal selves. We like to think we are smarter than that and always see through the flim-flam. But rest assured, there are various agencies out there from teaching us to control our bowels, to car salesmen, to all sorts of public and private PR campaigns out there intended on changing our minds along to a multitude of their interests. Worse, we recognize, rationally, some of those efforts consciously but that makes little difference to the unconscious mind. Free will is not some solid, solitary pinnacle of self-sufficiency rejecting all outside influences. You could not exist as a creature of society and culture if you could do so. Regardless of what level of separateness you think you have achieved by rejecting some areas of society and culture, you have mere substituted a different or milder version and left in place, undiscovered consciously, the more blatant.

The mere thinking that you have a choice is self-delusional. Yet, the system works. Except these days, it is being exploited as never before by the same knowledge that tells us that our beliefs, opinions and attitudes are springing forth from the unconscious mind. The better they understand how that 95-99 per cent of our minds work, the more efficient they will become in controlling what goes in to get what they want coming out.

Reminds me of a Bob Dylan song, "Subterranean Homesick Blues";

"Don't follow leaders, watch the parking meters".

His critique of the so called enlightened, meaning us all!

reply to post by Aliensun

Aliensun
The mere thinking that you have a choice is self-delusional.

If one sees that it is all just happening and that no one is actually choosing..................doesn't that set free everyone and everything?

Rectorate
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Actually I've walked on both sides of this, my conditioning was poverty in this society, I was an agent of the streets. I needed to be feared and respected, notorious. In joining a "social club" of sorts, I was able to obtain these things through direction and orders. I was essentially controlled into doing some terrible things because I needed to be respected. Growing up poor, living in a broken home all I had ever known was fear and sadness. The two things anyone wanting to be controlled, has. I was an absolute menace.

One day, after a near death experience and the consequences leading to jail time, I realized I had nothing. No diploma or GED, no job history, no credit or cash, no home, no family, no friends, etc. I knew there had to be a better way, I had become the very thing I hated most, a casualty of the Oligarchy, another teen statistic. Hopeless with no future.

I fixed my mind, reconditioned myself to listen to myself. I learned to use the manipulation I had been taught and subject to, to start doing good things. I am teaching the people that I "control" how to not become "controlled" they have finally questioned why they should listen to me at all. I tell them that is exactly the answer I look for now. When they can question me, their "mentor", they're free and understand what mind control is and how it shapes us.

You've certainly been through the mincing machine as I have to some degree.

I congratulate you on your honesty and empathise with your earlier experiences. You turned all that around through your own devices. Yes it can be done. Who better to steer others clear than one who knows where the other way leads.

You introduce another positive control mechanism in operation. You are trying to change the behaviour of others through them taking instructions from you. It is the positive side of manipulation. You are attempting to manipulate people into conforming to certain social objectives you want them to meet because that worked for you.

Like me you worked out the equation of cause and effect. You gained awareness that the painful reality of your position was a result of certain behaviours. You were right. You changed your behaviour and the pain is gone, except as rusty memories

reply to post by Aliensun


That's interesting, maybe I am delusional believing in my own free will. That is exactly what society has taught us to think, people with free will are dissidents with serious mental issues. I do question my sanity occasionally though, which is the sign of a healthy mind. If I had no free will or power of choice, I would either be dead or a millionaire. I'm neither. I'm thinking very hard right now, about what could be controlling me only to find nothing, except maybe my extreme distaste for this society and its incessant propaganda. Do you really believe you are being controlled? If so, why do you want to be controlled?

Rectorate
reply to post by Aliensun

 

That's interesting, maybe I am delusional believing in my own free will. That is exactly what society has taught us to think, people with free will are dissidents with serious mental issues. I do question my sanity occasionally though, which is the sign of a healthy mind. If I had no free will or power of choice, I would either be dead or a millionaire. I'm neither. I'm thinking very hard right now, about what could be controlling me only to find nothing, except maybe my extreme distaste for this society and its incessant propaganda. Do you really believe you are being controlled? If so, why do you want to be controlled?

I know you arent speaking to me, but wanted to give my .02 on this one

Because it relieves them of personal responsibility.. as I was trying to illustrate in my previous post.

reply to post by Advantage

Agreed. It's so much easier to blame our environment than ourselves for what has become of our lives. Who wouldn't want to let it be another persons fault? Maybe that's part of my delusion? Accepting responsibility for my own actions and admitting it was my choice, directly from my conscience.