Australia's Spy Agency cancels passports of Muslim Men.

Australia's Spy Agency cancels passport of Muslim Men.

ASIO, Australia's spy agency has cancelled the passports of 20 Australian Muslim Men over fears they may travel overseas to enter the Syrian conflict.

The SMH reported this morning that ASIO had cancelled the passports over fears the men, who are from Sydney, would travel overseas to engage in "politically motivated violence".

15 of the 20 men are being represented by Sydney lawyer Zali Burrows who says "the men have received letters requiring them to surrender their passports and they have been told they are an adverse security risk."

During Christmas holidays many Australians travel to Bali or Thailand to enjoy the beaches, bars and nightlife. Many school leavers also travel to Bali or Thailand since they are allowed to drink at a younger age. However Ms. Zali goes on to say "Some of these guys were just young guys wanting to go on holiday to Bali, they even packed their board shorts."

19 year old Abu Bakr says he received a 10 page letter from ASIO stating that he was a security risk, to which Abu Bakr claims he is not a criminal and does not even have a criminal record.

* * * * * * * * *

Call me old fashioned but I am of the opinion of punishing people ONLY AFTER THEY HAVE COMMITTED A CRIME.

Back in my day every individual was judged by their actions. This entire Minority Report style of "Pre-emptive" punishment goes against every fibre of my moral being.

When did Australia become such a "Pre-emptive" judicial state? Of course we take leads from Both America and Britain, but what happened to "Innocent until proven guilty?"

One of the men, 19-year-old Abu Bakr, told Fairfax he had been targeted for speaking out about violence against Muslims.

If people in Australia can loose their passports for speaking out against violence, then I might have to check with the Governor General before I book my next overseas holiday.

Good post S+F! It's a very moral grey area, because the war in Syria is bigger than a few Australians being able to go on holiday, I wouldn't be against stopping people spreading the conflict. However, I completely agree, they should not just assume that because they are Muslim men leaving the country that that is their intention.

If they got stopped on the border of Syria and sent back to Australia, then yes, by all means stop them going back! But this is just over-stepping their mark. You can not assume that...

You know what they say about assumptions: They make an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'!

Trubeeleever
asio-cancels-passports-of-muslim-men
Muslim Men.
20 Australian Muslim Men

many Australians travel to Bali or Thailand to enjoy the beaches, bars ...
...also travel to Bali or Thailand since they are allowed to drink

So... the lawyer's argument is...
Muslim men want to go to overseas simply so they can hang out at bars, and drink.

That doesnt sound right.

reply to post by iRoyalty


It sounds like the Australian government had a lot more on these guys than either side wants you to know... I don't believe any country would do such a thing without what they feel is near conclusive evidence.

That said, you all talk about never having committed a crime or some such thing, but I think the question is, is it a crime in Australia to enter into a foreign conflict of your own free will? That would be the question here.

Governments often classify people as unfit for this or that.

When they don't and something happens there's always a hue and cry about "why wasn't something done if we knew they were xxxx"

It could be

Jihadists
Mentally unwell
Paedophiles

and a long list of others

Taking proactive action will always have its opponents but I'm glad for it personally.

reply to post by iRoyalty

If they got stopped on the border of Syria and sent back to Australia, then yes, by all means stop them going back! But this is just over-stepping their mark. You can not assume that...

You've hit the nail on the head. I should have mentioned this in my thread.

reply to post by alfa1


No they are not her words, they were mine.

I apologize for the confusion, because that is what I do when I go to Thailand.

The lawyers exact words were

"Some of these guys were just young guys wanting to go on holiday to Bali, they even packed their board shorts.

Being a non-Muslim myself I sometimes forget the laws of certain religions.

I hope this clears it up.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


Hi OpinionatedB in response to your question

but I think the question is, is it a crime in Australia to enter into a foreign conflict of your own free will?

I do not know. It's probably irresponsible of me to post a thread while not knowing all the finer legal angles of each argument, but I would like to defer to iRoyalty's point when he said

If they got stopped on the border of Syria and sent back to Australia, then yes, by all means stop them going back!

Only once a crime has been committed then charge them with what ever punishment fits the crime. But when you use broad strokes to pre-emptively punish a group of people based on religion, then I believe a line has been crossed.

reply to post by alfa1


Muslims go on holiday too, they just find something to do that doesn't involve drinking. I think he was just making the point that lots of Australians go on holiday at this time of year.

Taking proactive action will always have its opponents but I'm glad for it personally.

reply to post by briocheplease


While this argument also has merits, who adjudicates on when a suspect will act upon their thoughts.

They say a sin in the mind is a sin the flesh, and everybody sins everyday, BUT, not everybody acts upon every bad desire they have.

If ASIO had solid evidence of the Muslim Men's intent then they would have arrested the 20 men. But according to Abu Bakr, in a 10 page letter he received from ASIO, ASIO's only reasoning is

he had been targeted for speaking out about violence against Muslims.

If speaking out AGAINST violence of any sort is a crime, then we here at ATS are all criminals.

iRoyalty
reply to post by alfa1

 

Muslims go on holiday too, they just find something to do that doesn't involve drinking. I think he was just making the point that lots of Australians go on holiday at this time of year.

Yes that's correct.
Bali is an ideal country for Muslims to go to for a holiday an account that 85% of Indonesia is Muslim.

However I am a beer drinking atheist and along with 100,000 other Aussie's each year, I have never had a problem traveling to Indonesia to holiday.

Next week I was thinking about flying to Bali or Thailand just to get away for a week. It would infuriate me to no end if I bought my airline tickets and paid for my accommodation then I was stopped at customs before I left the country simply because of comments I've made on ATS about governments.

reply to post by Trubeeleever


Well said, I have several Muslim friends and they are the nicest people I know, kind to their wives (in fact I worry about their wives not being kind to them!) and wouldn't hurt a fly. They hate all Muslims that want to kill and tell me they are deluded and will spend eternity in hell and that they have no sympathy! However, they speak out against violence to Muslims (obviously) and I always back them up! We are most certainly not Jihadists and when I go on holiday in the spring I do not want to have my passport revoked for my non-violent sentiment.

It sounds ridiculous typing it aha

Wait.. let me get this right.. Australia isn't blocking entry to security threats..they are saving other nations from their OWN people leaving to join a fight elsewhere?

You mean, almost like Australia had become a big penal colony where some people can't leave of their own free will? Something like that, kinda?

Reminds of something from the past... Hmm.... It'll come to me.. Just can't quite...

Why these 20 in particular?

If it was all Muslims then sure we have some cause for concern, Ill assume these guys are involved in some sort of fundamentalist group and the gov has good reason for denying them their passports. That said I think we shoulda let them go and just not let them back.

And Bali while being a part off Muslim Indonesia is actually Hindu

That's insane. If they're terrorists it's better to get them out of the country. Oh, I'm terrible, aren't I.

The bit that gets me is ""some" of these guys..."...

What about the others?!?

Lawyer double speak always gives me pause...

As with any organisation, you have the ones that do the dirty work, the scapegoats, the ones that don't speak out against their own and the ones that can be held up to the media as shining examples of innocence.

I have muslim friends too, we don't talk about religion... because let’s face it... Islam is as much an ideology as a religion.

alfa1

Trubeeleever
asio-cancels-passports-of-muslim-men
Muslim Men.
20 Australian Muslim Men

many Australians travel to Bali or Thailand to enjoy the beaches, bars ...
...also travel to Bali or Thailand since they are allowed to drink

So... the lawyer's argument is...
Muslim men want to go to overseas simply so they can hang out at bars, and drink.

That doesnt sound right.

Tell that to the FBI guy's who followed Mohammed Atta...strip clubs, bar's, hooker's and drug's...Then he Allah snackbar'd himself into the side of the WTC..

They probably spoke too loud on Facebook about rough stuff.



Mind you, there is no news about the other people denied travel.

We have Muslims, Asians, Europeans, in fact we have people from all over the world who are violent individuals who have been targeted by the government.





Let them do their job and eventually you'll all see that sometimes the governments are doing a job that is needed.