Young Universe Creationism Verses Old Universe Creation

Let me put something into perspective for you.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water. 3 God said, “Let there be light.” And there was light! 4 God saw that the light was good, so God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” There was evening, and there was morning, marking the first day.

Now, if the Earth didn't exist.
And there was nothing but darkness and the primordial waters of *space*. With no Earth to govern a 24-hour clock.
How can we arrogantly assume the days were assumed to be 24 hour days?

Its just not so, It was created in a day of the Lords life. 1 day could be millions of years, for something that has existed within the Darkness and of hidden light for so long. Would of surely counted days beyond those for the fraction of the time existing in this part of the cosmos.

It is but small fractions of time to the life of an Immortal who sees planets fall and suns collapse.
These *days* seem to be a sequence of chaining events rather than timed events with a 24-h deadline.

With that being said.
The heavens are localized. For our heavenly bodies that are used to keep track of time.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Signs for the dates and days and years, Does not mean that they began counting down and equaled to the 7 days of creation.

He is clearly dividing the time frames, And is saying that the nabouring constellations *the heavens* were created and were to be used for tracking the course of time.
Which is completely accurate considering how the earth has unique features such as axis tilts that just arn't possible to reoccure every year, creating perception of counting the seasons days and years.

Does that make sense?

In the begining there was nothing but Darkness.

Psalm 139:12
Even the darkness is not dark to you; the night is bright as the day, for darkness is as light with you.

And even Darkness is not truely Dark but is a hidden light... you've all heard this one. A hidden light from 'man'. Which is entirely accurate. How would one go searching for GODS light, if its hidden?
And only revealed to those that are worthy? Connecting any dots?

When god appears he always casts darkness over those who are not repetant. Well he bathes those that are in light.

Isaiah 9:2
The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in a land of deep darkness, on them has light shined.

Black holes exist inside the center of every galaxy. The matter that is crushed does not disappear, it is the very same compressed energy that fills our universe and makes it appear black, if it was not so. And nothing was there. There would be no obstruction from light.

Distant galaxies would light up the night sky brighter than the moon.. Deep space gives you a vague idea of just how far galaxies are seen until they are beyond our feild of view.


Taking all of this inter consideration.
You can say this is old creationist views, I however say it is sheding some light on the topic of darkness that rarely gets discussed. God does not neglect the light or the dark he creates both. Only satan clings to the light (Physical element light not the hidden light) Since he is the shining one.

I believe that what ever came here and created us and the solar system would be something consisting of the same energies found here before anything existed in this spot before light emurged. DOES NOT MEAN there was not light elsewhere. As stated the heavens and such are in reference to our constellations.

If god were to mention Oh yeah look for distant galaxies too because those would be important for tracking time. He would of mentioned it, but its kinda trival considering its nearly impossible to view that far with old telescopes... So why mention it?

The universe, which includes the unfathomable ammount of galaxies besides our own. ( for some reason people confuse galaxy and universe to often, Probably why it was best left out of the bible)

Galaxies recycle themselves through the process of matter containment or folding, caused by strong gravity from black holes. With a longer decay rate, Many times longer than that of unstable radiation such as stars.

The expanses of space and not *rapidly expanding* if it was so, We would be overwhelmed by chain explosions. Its not so. All these processes allow a universe housing infinite galaxies to exist indefinantly for ever and ever. With cosmic winds defying galaxies from clumping together en mass and sucking infinit galaxies into it to suddenly blow up and recreate again just isn't possible. To many singularities would form and begin eating at the mass, Not to mention the forces pushes these galaxies away from each other.

reply to post by AnuTyr

Let me put something into perspective for you.

Let me do the same.

You're no different than any other religious person who claims absolute knowledge of absolutely everything on absolutely zero evidence.

Please. Prove me wrong.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy




Well scientists are figuring it our using logic with our knowledge of mass, energy and velocity.

Matter is constantly being created, And larger objects will draw in more matter and light. If we were to say that all mass trapped within a black hole is sandwitched together.

Where would this mass go? Imagine if the energy being released by blackholes was influenced by force of gravity pulling down, than all the mass would Pour out similarly to how water pours out of a tap. But since space is frictionless we would see the energy being drawn out in bubbles rather than a constant stream.

Since all matter is governed by physical rules, where as Matter that has been converted into a non reactive state is made of the same consistancies of the black hole itself, The constant devouring of space clutter/stars/asteroids and planets inside of black holes creates an equal flow of non reactive energy or matter.

It no longer becomes an atom which has reactive protons and electrons that bind with other atoms and molecules it can pass through solid objects uneffectingly Unlike radiation and gamma rays which are still forms of Expanded matter and energy that are still physical objects.

Yes regardless of what you personally believe the Rare Earth Hypothesis and the Fermi Paradox are worth considering.

Bottom line, if you accept that science, this earth and those that live here are special.

reply to post by AnuTyr


Now, if the Earth didn't exist.
And there was nothing but darkness and the primordial waters of *space*. With no Earth to govern a 24-hour clock.
How can we arrogantly assume the days were assumed to be 24 hour days?


Shows up your total inability to think like a human. Bye friend - you're not welcome here.

AnuTyr
Let me put something into perspective for you.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
WOW - stop right there fella!

God's not real, he didn't create anything, and the idea of heaven isn't real either! just made up by weak people!!!!

Your turn...

edit on 14-12-2013 by MarsIsRed because: (no reason given)

Telling someone to think critically and adding no oppinion other than requoting with narrow minded critism. does not make your statement valid.

Fly over the topic as much as you want it still does not change the fact the earth was not formed till well after the first *day* if such an association of the rotating earth with the sun we call a day.

Simply stating that * God never happened* Isn't exactly stating the case of 'Why' you or anyone else should believe a remark without any thought out theories to contradict them.

That being said, try to share a bit more to the discussion.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Day 1 No Earth But there was the Light, the sun.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Second day, Forming of the atmophere seperating sky from the waters.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

The third day, The Earth was formed and given life.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

By the 4th day the constellations or heavens were established.

Already by reading sentence to sentence, No matter how fragmented these collecting of scrolls and texts we're. Anyone reading it without bias can see that the Earth was not solid nore existant in the first day, That being said.

There is an unkown time gap between each of these phases. We only judge a day by 24 hours here on Earth.

Fly to a much larger planet and that would not be the case. Besides its a very minimal point to knit pick at, Since what we have learned about Black holes contradicts Much if the big bang. And subsiquantly our knowledge of the universe. Which is Infinit in Age. The Earth is not 6000 years old. Nore is it the center of everything in existance.

Seems to me that those crazy creationists are the only ones (theists) that are really keeping it real. They don't change their beliefs whenever a scientific theory is produced, they haven't given up whole portions of their holy book just so their faith meets with reality.

Whereas those that do take in what science has done and molded their beliefs to match with it, seem to me to be very wishy washy and even more irrational.

reply to post by Prezbo369


My parents believed what I believe about creation in the 50's, we haven't changed with every new discovery in science.
It is a case that Christians just needed to understand the scope of time Genesis 1:1 covered, that never changed.

Blue_Jay33
reply to post by Prezbo369

 

My parents believed what I believe about creation in the 50's, we haven't changed with every new discovery in science.
It is a case that Christians just needed to understand the scope of time Genesis 1:1 covered, that never changed.

edit on 16-12-2013 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)

I assume you still believe in Santa Claus, or that did change a bit as you grow up?


Here is Neil deGrasse Tyson take on issue:




With education, numbers drops... witch means...

reply to post by SuperFrog


I guess the point I was trying to make (which flew over your head obviously via the sarcastic Santa comment) some Christians haven't been changing there belief system for science, rather saying it confirms what what we have believed for decades anyways.

reply to post by Prezbo369

Seems to me that those crazy creationists are the only ones (theists) that are really keeping it real. They don't change their beliefs whenever a scientific theory is produced, they haven't given up whole portions of their holy book just so their faith meets with reality.

Whereas those that do take in what science has done and molded their beliefs to match with it, seem to me to be very wishy washy and even more irrational.

So to summarize that.

Changing ones stance in the face of changing evidence is irrational.

My friend I think you're confused on what it means to be rational.

Blue_Jay33
reply to post by SuperFrog

 

I guess the point I was trying to make (which flew over your head obviously via the sarcastic Santa comment) some Christians haven't been changing there belief system for science, rather saying it confirms what what we have believed for decades anyways.

Which is exactly as some older kids still believing Santa is real and not changing their belief for science or in this case sanity.

Just as Father George Coyne, ex director of science observatory in Vatican has said - there is no science in scriptures - Scriptures are NOT teaching science. He call this religious fundamentalism kind of plague...