Sam Harris - Morality and the Christian God

cant watch the video as I am on mobile. But from what I know, Sam is one of the many people who seem to have made a career out of something he doesn't believe in. Is Sam Harris looking to make a genuine change in society? Great! What has he done to better human conditions? How much has he contributed out of his personal wealth? Has he travelled to third world countries to help people? No? Then what makes him any different from the average atheist ranting about stuff he doesn't believe in? -..................................................................................................................................................In short, why are the likes of Sam Harris so special, simply for not believing in something? d

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Sorry you can't watch the video right now but it isn't about being special. Why are people so hung up on being special anyway? Isn't the fact so many people think they are special at least part of the reason the world is so screwed up.

The guy makes some real good points in the video and I just watched all the others. I still wouldn't call him special but he seems pretty smart and his message rings true. The snowflake syndrome doesn't seem to be what he preaches or try’s to show. Just solid reasoning.

awwwhhhhh poor baby, he wanted heaven to be now, and all he got was earth, and human existence. He wanted nivana now, not earth where people end up dying. It's all Gods fault right. You can't curse soil and sunshine. You just got to work with what you got. And he's wrong, in my opinion there's plenty of evidence to support there being a God. And earth was originally designed as a paradise for man until the fall. We can't fully understand what happened, the bible tells a version of those events, maybe they're right, maybe it's just an interpretation, who knows. But we are were we are now. And to think you can believe away some kind of creationism theory is ludicrase. It doesn't matter if he doesn't like the rules of the game, he's stuck in it like it or not. I get the impression from these types of people that it's kinda a survival mechanism going off, like they refuse to submit so they get all judgemental and cinical about God, and always Christianity. Until someone poses a better theory for life on earth, then they can just shut up. If they don't want to believe that's there choice. If all they ever want to do is exercise some kind of physical existence and never try the spiritual side of life again, that's up to them. I think I'd go nuts if I couldn't have something bigger to believe in. But all I see is a very cinical, negative, jaded, spiteful, hateful atheistic dude, who's logic is flawed. He doesn't know the bible very good either, as there's passages that talk about how men can be justified if they never knew about the bible but lived a good life. He claims everyone just goes to hell even if they've never heard or known the gosple. The bible doesn't say that, so obviously the guy is just a bitter jaded atheistic moron. Ya and this guy, this bitter jaded man child has a better answer than all the prophets and gurus that heard from God directly to help create the bible. I'd like to here what this guys solution then is? Just reject God and hope for the best... Is that it??? LOL Total idiot.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Sam is one of the many people who seem to have made a career out of something he doesn't believe in.

Sigh.

He very much believes in what he's doing.

He doesn't believe in god or religion so that strips all meaning and good intentions from his actions??

Doesn't work that way. He's passionate about it.

This may strike you as odd, but some of us atheists take an activist approach with what we 'don't believe in', just as countless religious people do with their pressing drive to convert and save souls.

Is Sam Harris looking to make a genuine change in society?

He genuinely already has. It would be intellectually dishonest to fail to recognize that. He's been an influential thinker. There is a reason he gets invited regularly to discuss his views and to debate with people.

What has he done to better human conditions?

Primarily? Talk.

I sure hope you are not undermining it's power.

The pen is mightier than the sword.

Also.

"Mr. Harris is a cofounder and the CEO of Project Reason, a nonprofit foundation devoted to spreading scientific knowledge and secular values in society. He received a degree in philosophy from Stanford University and a Ph.D. in neuroscience from UCLA."

www.samharris.org...

Spearheading such a group may not seem valuable to you, but it does to me and others.

How much has he contributed out of his personal wealth? Has he travelled to third world countries to help people?

What kind of standards are these? As if these are the only qualifying factors for someone contributing to the world… Do you hold everyone to these standards?

Then what makes him any different from the average atheist ranting about stuff he doesn't believe in?

Average? lol….well then that's easy. His intelligence.

I'm sure you meant that differently. As such can I suggest you take the time to read one of his books or watch a debate or two of his before you come to conclusions? Perhaps your answers are there.

intrptr
If a Tsunami slays a million people thats "gods" fault?

Well ... God could have stopped it and He didn't. So doesn't that make Him responsible?
"God" (the God of the bible) holds people responsible for 'sins of omission'.
When they could do something good but they don't ...
So if it's a sin for people, wouldn't it be a sin for "God" too??
Or do we have to give 'God' a free pass because he 'must' have greater purposes??

Sin of Omission

reply to post by spartacus699

We can't fully understand what happened, the bible tells a version of those events, maybe they're right, maybe it's just an interpretation, who knows.

like they refuse to submit so they get all judgemental and cinical about God

He can't be cynical about a god he doesn't believe exists.

"refuse to submit". Heh. Yes some people opt for thinking for themselves instead of submitting.

Until someone poses a better theory for life on earth, then they can just shut up.

People have!

Are you not familiar with secular humanism.

Oh you meant origins?

People have…

However since you believe the Bible represents those truths (even tho "maybe it's right, maybe it's just interpretation, who knows") without any evidence, I doubt you are one to appreciate the evidence science has there.

I think I'd go nuts if I couldn't have something bigger to believe in.

People believe in 'bigger' without belief in a creator. Believing in humanity, in love, in art, in companionship, in the Universe itself…. there are many ways someone can believe in something bigger that pulls them to aspire to greater things or to widen their circle of compassion.

If you meant by that a creator god, then I would say that's fine you would go nuts but what does that say except it's helping you out psychologically? That in no way gives objective truth to the belief itself.

But all I see is a very cinical, negative, jaded, spiteful, hateful atheistic dude, who's logic is flawed.

Very spiteful and hateful? Heh. Sam is known for how stoic and controlled he is. None of that describes his demeanor when he speaks. I would ask if you meant his writings but something tells me you haven't read much there.

as there's passages that talk about how men can be justified if they never knew about the bible but lived a good life.

Can you share that?

He claims everyone just goes to hell even if they've never heard or known the gosple.

No.

He doesn't believe in Hell. We atheists don't believe in your Hell. Okay?

He's merely speaking about the moral accountability of god if he existed as the Christians believe him to and the Bible is his word.

The bible doesn't say that, so obviously the guy is just a bitter jaded atheistic moron. Ya and this guy, this bitter jaded man child

Resorting to baseless character assassination is a tell tale sign you have nothing of substance to offer.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


The verses are in Romans. Specifically chapter 10. What's strange is I've never heard of such a thing where someone is passionate about something they don't believe in. Therefore my theory is that he does believe in God and Christianity but is just angry with or in opposition to God for some reason or other. There's no way he doesn't believe. Besides name one good thing atheism has ever done for the human race. I can't name one thing of any significance. And I'm not talking science as that's a completely different subject. I'm talking atheism alone. It hasn't done anything for the planet but confuse people, strip away peoples hope, and worse. Besides atheist are just scared because they know they're going to hell and so in there panic they act like this guy. Also Christianity is a win win proposition, atheism is lose lose, they ruine there lives on earth and in the next.

the 13 flaws of atheism:

goodtothosewholovegod.weebly.com...

reply to post by spartacus699

The verses are in Romans. Specifically chapter 10

Thanks. I'll look into that.

What's strange is I've never heard of such a thing where someone is passionate about something they don't believe in.

How can you be so obtuse?

-Shawshank Redemption.

Therefore my theory is that he does believe in God and Christianity

angry with or in opposition to God

There's no way he doesn't believe.

It just blows your mind when people truly don't believe in your religion doesn't it.

Besides name one good thing atheism has ever done for the human race. I can't name one thing of any significance.

Just one? Easy. Freeing the mind from the chains of a fictitious belief system so it can instead be grounded in reality. So then that person is freed from believing he/she has all the answers concerning morality already, and can grow alongside society, alongside its developing sense of morality and ethics. That person doesn't believe he/she was given the answers from some infallible moral authority and therefore there is no room for debate. Rather he/she thinks for themselves and collaborates with other people doing the same. Through the acknowledgement we don't have all the answers we can actually progress.

It hasn't done anything for the planet but confuse people, strip away peoples hope, and worse.

I would say religion has done countless evils and still does. The very worst being the indoctrination of children and therefor perpetuating a vicious cycle.

Besides atheist are just scared because they know they're going to hell

Shaking in my boots.

Also Christianity is a win win proposition, atheism is lose lose, they ruine there lives on earth and in the next.

Based on proof or faith?

reply to post by FlyersFan

Well ... God could have stopped it and He didn't. So doesn't that make Him responsible?

Why? Because he's "God"? (whatever that means)

My other answer is they are earthquakes, not Godquakes.

Besides which you took me a little out of context there. But I still played along.

reply to post by spartacus699

Therefore my theory is that he does believe in God and Christianity but is just angry with or in opposition to God for some reason or other.

Ridiculous.

There's no way he doesn't believe.

Way.

And I'm not an atheist. I'm a deist/unitarian universalist/new ager/baby boomer.

Besides name one good thing atheism has ever done for the human race.

Ummm.. erm....Humanism? Not relying on some random (never) "second coming event" to straighten out what humankind has screwed up all on its (our) own?

I can't name one thing of any significance.

You can't name one thing?

Well, then. You haven't done your homework.

Step up to the plate.....
and stop sitting around waiting for 'divine intervention'. Take a swing at it yourself.

Or not.
Whatever.

reply to post by wildtimes


spoken like a true chimp

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


My thoughts are exactly what I posted,

If somebody else has already spoken my thoughts on the subject at hand, and I find it adequate to simply quote them to give my views on the issue, then I will do so;

I think Sam Harris is just one of the many in a long list of peoples with defective and incorrect world views, I think his ideas about religion, God and the Bible are misinformed, misleading, and condescending,

I find the "evangelical atheists" to be a hypocritical, boisterous, prideful group of "intellectuals" who have so much knowledge of the world that they are blinded by their own preconceived and false notion of [perceived] omniscience to ever receive the love of True Knowledge.

reply to post by godlover25


Fair enough

Then to bring it on topic to Grimpachi's thread can you be more constructive with your critique of Sam and this video? It's clear you're on the other side of things. We've established that. I'd be more interested to hear your personal rebuttal to all the points made in the (not that long) video. Rather then hearing how he's part of "the Unholy Trinity of Evil".