The report on Sandy Hook has just been released by the state's attorney's office.

reply to post by NickDC202


This is allegedly the first helicopter that arrived on scene. Claims to be about 9:35 am.

Hope this helps.

youtu.be...

reply to post by Libertygal

Can't be sure about this video. It represents there were at some time six people moving in the woods.

reply to post by Snarl

Yes, that video clearly shows the odd man out in the upper left hand corner. If you watch longer videos, he runs seemingly toward the group, then it's as if he realizes they are police, and he flees up and out of frame to the upper left hand corner.

This does not seem like a police action, as he would have migrated towards the group upon hearing the radio traffic they had the one man proned out.

Just seems to be unusual behavior, and not what one would expect from law enforcement at that moment, under those circumstances.

Remembering the radio traffic, and now ultimately the 911 calls, they were chasing "two shadows, two men, that just ran by the gym", and "they are coming at me", "coming at us".

Just found this from TV Spy published December 14, 2012 11:59 AM

Local Hartford stations broke in to regular programming this morning to cover the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn.

NBC-owned WVIT reported the news at 10:26 a.m. with a quick update at from morning anchor Brad Drazen who asked viewers to stay tuned for more information before going to break.

CBS affiliate WFSB reported the news at 10:29 a.m. with anchor Eric Parker. ABC affiliate WTNH reported it at 10:30 a.m., breaking into the “Rachael Ray” show” with a special report anchored by Keith Kountz.

News 12 Connecticut arrived on the scene at 10:53 a.m., cutting in to reporter Frank Recchia‘s piece and quickly going to live footage from its Chopper 12.

Chopper 12 seems to be the only other helicopter aside from the Connecticut State Police helicopter on the scene the earliest.

The question I have for the class is:
Could law enforcement have evacuated all of the circa 500 surviving students and faculty to the fire house in a little less than an hour (when Chopper 12 arrived and the pilot comments that he cannot see any students around the school)?

If so, would circa 500 students and faculty fit in the fire house? Or was there another location besides the firehouse students were moved to?

reply to post by Daedalus

no...no, it doesn't....

i never got a chance to study the mint green car,
but i highly doubt they were exits...

That's quite the statement from someone who admittedly hasn't researched anything about the car.

Also, I never said suicide was strict in the theory, simply put forth as an option. Just because he could have had a gun in the car, doesn't mean he could not have had two.

With the location of where her car was parked, and the trajectory from the bullet holes to the building, there is no way it could have happened. There was an SUV in the pathway, and the bullets would have had to travel through the engine block.

The entry hole in the door had to have been fired from aside the car, and the noteable exit hole had to have been fired from inside the passenger compartment. The exit hole shows obvious flaring out, and the metal door trim is bent upwards and outwards, an obvious deflection from underneath, or within, the car.

Again, the rust was there, that day.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

To the mods: since my last post was removed without explanation, I can only assume it was because of an external link. This is an internal link, from an open thread.

reply to post by NickDC202


Exactly. That's been a bone of contention the entire time, and one of the major differences in the handling of this, vs Arapahoe, where the evacuation was very visible.

If, on the other hand, no media were present, where did the infamous pic of the follow the leader with the eyes closed pic of a bunch of kids, the ONLY pic alleging evacuation of any type, come from?

We know they didn't go to the firehouse, because we have that video of the people running in circles at the firehouse. In one door, out the other, around the building, in the door, out the other...

Aside from that, there was nowhere near enough vehicles at the firestation, even if you were to assume that each parent that arrived had 4 children in the school.

Also, a certain person that had some kids at their home made a statement about seeing a list posted at the firehouse of the victims, a full HOUR before the list was released.

NickDC202
The question I have for the class is:
Could law enforcement have evacuated all of the circa 500 surviving students and faculty to the fire house in a little less than an hour (when Chopper 12 arrived and the pilot comments that he cannot see any students around the school)?

If so, would circa 500 students and faculty fit in the fire house? Or was there another location besides the firehouse students were moved to?

I'd imagine all of those 500 kids were down by the firehouse in less than 30 minutes of the all clear. The teachers were responsible for getting the kids out. The cops were doing their thing. There were a LOT of teachers in that school.

As memory serves ... the exodus gave the outward appearance of barely controlled chaos. A lot of the news coverage showed parents and children on foot hustling away from the school. I'd doubt there would be much more than a, "Hey lady, is that your kid?" ... "Hey Johnny, is that your mom?" ... and out the door they went.

When the pilot said there weren't any kids around the school, did he mean just the school ... or visible?

reply to post by Snarl


Well, in the video, the incoming shots were pretty clear, it was a clear zone. The only visible activity was at the school at that precise time. If you are speaking of the police chopper, the estimated time of arrival was 9:35 am, and that would have almost literally been with shooting having just ceased. According to some timelines, it was even still in progress, though police were alleged to have been on scene within 3 minutes.

I think the time is wrong, because you can clearly see a firetruck in the parking lot, with the first responder color coded mats already on the ground.
From the report:

"The response to these crimes began unfolding at 9:35:39 a.m. when the first 911 call was received by the Newtown Police Department. "

It is presumed that the mother that was interviewed, who stated the doors were open, was alleged to have made that first 911 call, but it is unclear who it was.

Also, the doors to Lanza's car were already shut, when they were said to be all open when one mother arrived at the school.

She is said to have arrived and called 911 about that same time.

reply to post by Libertygal


Pat Jack on Youtube has done the most thorough studies on the shadows to find the time of the video. Accorrding to him ( and I agree) the chopper footage of the school is from around 11 AM.
This would make it after the evacuation when all the children would have been moved to the firehouse.

The video is not contiguous however and does seem to contain some edits.
What appears to be an exit hole on the car frame above the door is possibly a bullet that entered the door panel further down which ricocheted and followed the door frame upward before exiting creating both an entry and exit hole.

Anyone trying to connect a certain person with a name starting with R -O -D -I to the event is likely to have their post removed. We've been through that before.

Eta: A Mrs. Sibley reported the Honda doors open at 9:30 that is correct. The report tells that the shotgun was found by police and the car was locked with it inside to secure the weapon (the keys were found on top of the car roof).

reply to post by Asktheanimals


I agree about the R-o-... thing, and did no such thing.

Anyways, in a post above, it was said the teachers did the evacuating, but if you listen to this interview, he clearly says the police evacuated the school.

www.youtube.com...

And a bullet ricocheting? Would it not have sustained some damage from its impact, ricochet, and then exit? One might think whatever it hit to cause the ricochet would possibly have retarded the shape enough to not have such a clean exit? Just a thought.

Also, this does not explain the rust around the bullet hole.

Snarl

NickDC202
The question I have for the class is:
Could law enforcement have evacuated all of the circa 500 surviving students and faculty to the fire house in a little less than an hour (when Chopper 12 arrived and the pilot comments that he cannot see any students around the school)?

If so, would circa 500 students and faculty fit in the fire house? Or was there another location besides the firehouse students were moved to?

I'd imagine all of those 500 kids were down by the firehouse in less than 30 minutes of the all clear. The teachers were responsible for getting the kids out. The cops were doing their thing. There were a LOT of teachers in that school.

As memory serves ... the exodus gave the outward appearance of barely controlled chaos. A lot of the news coverage showed parents and children on foot hustling away from the school. I'd doubt there would be much more than a, "Hey lady, is that your kid?" ... "Hey Johnny, is that your mom?" ... and out the door they went.

When the pilot said there weren't any kids around the school, did he mean just the school ... or visible?

Which begs the question: When was the all clear given?
(It seems like it could take up to an hour or more from the time law enforcement entered to clear the building -- especially if we note the early scanner reports and 911 call mentioning shadowy figures running outside the school by the gym. I'm not including the various people chased down in the woods because the chopper was already filming when those people were detained so for sake of this discussion let's assume that the all clear was given prior to those people were detained)

I would hope that the sign out procedure, following parents reuniting with their kids, was a touch more thorough than the procedure you suggest of "Hey lady, is that your kid?" ... "Hey Johnny, is that your mom?" ... and out the door they went... if that was the procedure any creep could snatch up one or even six kids and take them home.

Regarding the pilot (who the anchor mentions is a retired police officer) he seemed a bit confused as to the location of the survivors and said that they must be in a safe area of the school all together; he said this circa an hour after the shooting when Chopper 12 first arrived on the scene.

Here is the first footage taken by Chopper 12

Asktheanimals
reply to post by Libertygal

 

Pat Jack on Youtube has done the most thorough studies on the shadows to find the time of the video. Accorrding to him ( and I agree) the chopper footage of the school is from around 11 AM.
This would make it after the evacuation when all the children would have been moved to the firehouse.

The shadow guy wasn't that far off-- Chopper 12 first aired live footage of the scene at 10:53AM.

It is perplexing that the entire, rather large, building would be cleared and circa 500 kids could be moved a little over 1/4 mile in less than an hour simply because that timeline doesn't really fit the oral history communicated in the days following 14 Dec 2012. It was reported almost universally that faculty were hiding for "hours" and students with teachers hiding in bathrooms and/or closets for more than an hour.

Again, if we look at Arapahoe on Friday we see students being led from the school with their hands up before they were frisked and cleared to go the meeting area; this process was ongoing for over 2 hours (and the trauma was less, the students more mature and more able to do things on their own).

Libertygal
reply to post by Daedalus

 

no...no, it doesn't....

i never got a chance to study the mint green car,
but i highly doubt they were exits...

That's quite the statement from someone who admittedly hasn't researched anything about the car.

Also, I never said suicide was strict in the theory, simply put forth as an option. Just because he could have had a gun in the car, doesn't mean he could not have had two.

With the location of where her car was parked, and the trajectory from the bullet holes to the building, there is no way it could have happened. There was an SUV in the pathway, and the bullets would have had to travel through the engine block.

The entry hole in the door had to have been fired from aside the car, and the noteable exit hole had to have been fired from inside the passenger compartment. The exit hole shows obvious flaring out, and the metal door trim is bent upwards and outwards, an obvious deflection from underneath, or within, the car.

Again, the rust was there, that day.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

To the mods: since my last post was removed without explanation, I can only assume it was because of an external link. This is an internal link, from an open thread.

edit on 15-12-2013 by Libertygal because: (no reason given)

it was one of the many pieces of information i cataloged in the days after the incident...never said i was as unaware of it as you would imply...

i saw it, it didn't make a whole lot of sense, so i filed it for later investigation..your theory still doesn't hold water though.

Snarl

NickDC202
The question I have for the class is:
Could law enforcement have evacuated all of the circa 500 surviving students and faculty to the fire house in a little less than an hour (when Chopper 12 arrived and the pilot comments that he cannot see any students around the school)?

If so, would circa 500 students and faculty fit in the fire house? Or was there another location besides the firehouse students were moved to?

I'd imagine all of those 500 kids were down by the firehouse in less than 30 minutes of the all clear. The teachers were responsible for getting the kids out. The cops were doing their thing. There were a LOT of teachers in that school.

As memory serves ... the exodus gave the outward appearance of barely controlled chaos. A lot of the news coverage showed parents and children on foot hustling away from the school. I'd doubt there would be much more than a, "Hey lady, is that your kid?" ... "Hey Johnny, is that your mom?" ... and out the door they went.

When the pilot said there weren't any kids around the school, did he mean just the school ... or visible?

I would love to see this news coverage of which you speak. The coverage of "parents and children on foot hustling away from the school."

I don't recall seeing anything of the kind. Could you share a link?

reply to post by notquitesure

They're everywhere. A simple YT search will yield more results than you could watch in a day.

As an ATS guest, I am trying to comply with the spirit of what is tolerated in these SH threads. The owners do not care for this subject on their site and I am trying to limit my participation to things unexplained, omitted, or unexplored. I have become quite frustrated by the ignorance repeatedly expressed on this topic.

**Lurker shields ... engaged**

Snarl
reply to post by notquitesure

 

They're everywhere. A simple YT search will yield more results than you could watch in a day.

As an ATS guest, I am trying to comply with the spirit of what is tolerated in these SH threads. The owners do not care for this subject on their site and I am trying to limit my participation to things unexplained, omitted, or unexplored. I have become quite frustrated by the ignorance repeatedly expressed on this topic.

**Lurker shields ... engaged**

Personally, I've seen zero footage of anyone scurrying away from the school. There is footage of adults and children walking in the area near the firehouse.

To my knowledge, there is no footage of parents and children exiting the school that day.

What is ignorance? I admit that if there is actual footage of parents and children leaving the school that day I am ignorant of that fact. Since you seem to be so enlightened, perhaps you could trouble us with a link to this footage that you seem to know all about. Otherwise, I think it may be fair to assert that you are in fact ignorant of the realities of this case.

Thank you for your assistance.

reply to post by notquitesure


You're pretty much right.

There are 4 stills of children leaving the school -1 well known, widely published showing a group of 10-12 kids with 2 police and 1 adult in the parking lot and I've seen 2 other taken from the woods to the SE side of the drive between the school and firehouse. Another with a single child between 2 women and a policeman.

There is no video of any group of any type going from the school to the firehouse.

There is no video of large numbers of children at the firehouse.
The chopper footage only shows a sprinkling of children among a sea of adults.
You never do see footage of any groups of children from anywhere.
Make of that what you will.

reply to post by nighthawk1954


There is more news out today. I noticed this picture...


Look at the magazine rack. It is positioned very oddly. Look how it is rotated 90 degrees and facing the chair. That is a strange way to arrange a magazine rack in a lobby. It appears as if somebody had made a space for entry through one of the side windows. Who would do that?

You show news indicating that Adam Lanza scouted the area prior to the attack. Did he go inside? Is there video showing him moving the magazine rack? Look how close it has been moved to the chair. The lower magazines are in a really awkward position. Nobody could access these magazines, especially if there was a person sitting in the chair. That is really awkward. One would expect it to be facing outwards or angled in a way that all persons could peruse the rack and select a magazine.

Either Adam Lanza went into the building and set this up the day before, or somebody else did.

reply to post by XXX777


So, what you are saying is that he could not have knocked it on the way in, making it spin in that direction? It looks to have some decent support on the bottom to be able to spin around without falling over. I bet it was facing out, and the back was facing the nice area where the glass is shattered and it got spun into that position.

Are you purposely leaving out the most obvious possibility?