Secrecy still shrouds Sandy Hook investigation!

WanDash
First thing you're supposed to do, is - go through all of the components on the checklist, and make sure they are there.
When all of the components are not included - what do you do?
Try and put it together...anyway?
I have... Sometimes I can make up the difference with something on hand, or by gerrymandering another solution (if possible). But - I always feel cheated when that happens.
In any case - it's really not up to you to determine what is "satisfactory" for others.

Your analogy really doesn't fit this scenario because your initial inventory is to determine whether you have all the pieces present before you begin. Except for motive, perhaps, we have most of the pieces on the Sandy Hook attack to have a working understanding on the events of the day, but what you're looking for isn't additional information we don't have. You want additional details on information we do have (I.E. the 9-1-1 calls. We know 9-1-1 calls were made but you want to hear what they were saying on the calls) which adds nothing tangible to the events of the day. To correct your analogy, you're insisting on knowing how a specific screw you've been given was manufactured before you put your cabinet together or else you'll dismiss it out of hand as being the wrong screw...and you won't even try to install it to see whether it actually fits in the cabinet or not.

And - by the way - there may be NOTHING in the missing information/evidence - but no-one will know that, until it has been inspected and measured against and compared with the remaining information/evidence.

This makes no sense. Are you saying you need more information to prove what you've been told is true even though you admit you have no reason to doubt it? Logically, we both know that only one statement or the other can be correct.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


I here what you are saying.

But can you answer why so many people think there is a great deal odd about the whole event ? and the people asking the questions are not Conspiracy Nuts. They are your day to day people who after seeing what has happened have a few very good questions that are not been answered.

Can you also answer the following.

Do you trust the US government?

Has the US government lied to the people before.

Could there be a motive by the US Gov that con-insides with the event?

If the milk smells sour ! Im not the kinda pussy to drink it

reply to post by GoodOlDave


A Connecticut state judge disagrees with your viewpoint.

But the judge said the recordings are public, and he rejected arguments for keeping them sealed. He said that the release will help the public gauge the appropriateness of law enforcement's response. "In fact, public analysis of the recordings may serve to vindicate and support the professionalism and bravery of the first responders ... who themselves have undoubtedly been subject to emotional turmoil and pain in witnessing the scene at Sandy Hook Elementary School," Prescott wrote. "Delaying the release of the audio recordings, particularly where the legal justification to keep them confidential is lacking, only serves to fuel speculation about and undermine confidence in our law enforcement officials."

abcnews.go.com...

Mikeultra
The reason a lot of people would like to hear the 911 emergency calls is because there's evidence in them of this being a drill. For example, CT state police talking to dispatch about Newton PD being held at a distance away from the school, etc. The very calm demeanor of all the radio traffic. Will the 911 tapes be released as ordered by the judge?

I've read the article you mentioned but it makes no mention of any "evidence of this being a drill". What the article did say is that the judge listened to the tapes and he wants to release it because the tapes confirm the police reacted professionally and properly to the call, and the judge feels the public has a right to know this. Unless you want to call the judge a liar...in which case, your whole article is moot...the 9-1-1 tapes you're insisting on hearing are only going to prove the exact opposite of what you think they will prove.

What evidence is there of this being a drill? This is a new one on me.

BillN
I follow ATS and read the articles but never comment. I can't let this one go.

I'm amazed that there are people out there that actually think that this did not happen.

I'm from Newtown and I know families that lost children. Its astounding that people can be so ignorant in the pursuit of self satisfaction. We voted to tear the school down because who wants to send their children back to school where classmates got murdered? Kids are scared here - they see news trucks and ask did someone get killed again? This is what it is like raising children here. Some of the families have moved away. We've asked the AP to NOT send any media here on the anniversary to protect our kids. We dont want any more of the circus! We are a small town that was shoved into the global limelight in horrific fashion.

CHILDREN were murdered and lives have been changed forever and people think it's a hoax. You need your head examined. There was absolute confusion that morning. Of course there are going to be inconsistencies but really. Have some damn respect.

Can you please provide a link to information about the vote to tear down the school?

This is new information to me, although it may be common knowledge to others.

Also, when you say that "we've" asked the AP to not send any media, who made this request? Was this something else that was voted on, and who voted?

Thanks in advance for clarification, and thank you in advance for introducing some facts to the discussion.

01/12/2013

The official government website for the state of Connecticut (ct.gov) lists the drill on their calendar;

leaksource.wordpress.com...

only 13 miles away drilling the exact event..

GoodOlDave

Mikeultra
The reason a lot of people would like to hear the 911 emergency calls is because there's evidence in them of this being a drill. For example, CT state police talking to dispatch about Newton PD being held at a distance away from the school, etc. The very calm demeanor of all the radio traffic. Will the 911 tapes be released as ordered by the judge?

I've read the article you mentioned but it makes no mention of any "evidence of this being a drill". What the article did say is that the judge listened to the tapes and he wants to release it because the tapes confirm the police reacted professionally and properly to the call, and the judge feels the public has a right to know this. Unless you want to call the judge a liar...in which case, your whole article is moot...the 9-1-1 tapes you're insisting on hearing are only going to prove the exact opposite of what you think they will prove.

What evidence is there of this being a drill? This is a new one on me.

I remember hearing CT state police "complaining" to their dispatch that the Newtown PD were asking for "something to do". Like they were annoyed at being bothered by the local PD, or wanting to keep them away from the scene. A lot of the radio chatter sounded very calm and contradictory. Shooters in the woods. etc, etc. One thing that I remember well as the news broke on cable tv, was that they were showing "live" CT state police cruiser dash cam video as they raced to the school. That is very unusual, and can't be explained away as anything else but a fabricated piece of propaganda weaved into the broadcast.

jam321
Adam must have done a number on that hard drive seeing that the police will probably never be able to get info from it.

Makes me think what info he was trying to hide.

He was insane. He was probably hiding murder porn or something, since he had a fascination with killing and violence. Maybe he thought he was an alien?

The police are unable to identify WHY Adam did it, but does it matter? Doesn't matter! He was a fruitcake. Have you read the latest on him? I wouldn't be surprised if he killed the kids because his mom accidentally open his cheerios box.

judus
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

I here what you are saying.

But can you answer why so many people think there is a great deal odd about the whole event ? and the people asking the questions are not Conspiracy Nuts. They are your day to day people who after seeing what has happened have a few very good questions that are not been answered.

For the exact same reason why there are people who think the moon landing was staged and why there are people who think the 9/11 attack was staged, despite the fact there are whole encyclopedias devoted to them; there is so much outright bad information beign circulated and the more spooky scary it sounds the more likely that people will want to pass it around without checking to see whether it's even true. If these conspiracy proponents would only hold up their alternative theories to the same stringent level of critical analysis that they do for what they're criticizing, they wouldn't be conspiracy proponents for very long.

Can you also answer the following.

Do you trust the US government?

Has the US government lied to the people before.

Could there be a motive by the US Gov that con-insides with the event?

I do not trust the gov't by any means, but by the same token I do not believe every single little thing happening in the world up to and including our stubbing our toe on a rock in our back yard is the result of some sinister secret gov't plot, either. There are in fact legitimate psychos in the world and they do in fact commit legitimate psycho acts, and this was true a thousand years ago and it will be true a thousand years from now. Why you think this isn't true NOW is what I'm trying to derive.

reply to post by GoodOlDave

So I will ask again...What's so magical about the evidence you're demanding to see that makes it so much more valuable than the evidence we already have?

What evidence?!? The summary report is not evidence - it is just that - a summary report.

It doesn't really matter why people want to see the evidence. It is the law. And in a free & open society that's the way it works to ensure accuracy and the truth.

If you're asking why people shouldn't just believe what the authorities or elected officials tell them, I'd say you *must* be joking. It's not like they have ever lied to the people before right?

The authorities have brought this on themselves by the astounding lack of facts and evidence they have produced thus far and fighting every step of the way to not release *anything*.

Why are you questioning why someone else has an interest in this? If you're not interested and believe everything that's told to you - great. But you don't have the right to make that choice for others. If this really bothers you just ignore the threads on the topic and go on & be happy with what you're told.

They are reaping what they have sown. And as a resident of the area with children still attending the local schools, I have a legal & moral right to know exactly what happened.

On a final note it deserves to be reiterated: It's the LAW. Your belief & approval are not required.

notquitesure

BillN
I follow ATS and read the articles but never comment. I can't let this one go.

I'm amazed that there are people out there that actually think that this did not happen.

I'm from Newtown and I know families that lost children. Its astounding that people can be so ignorant in the pursuit of self satisfaction. We voted to tear the school down because who wants to send their children back to school where classmates got murdered? Kids are scared here - they see news trucks and ask did someone get killed again? This is what it is like raising children here. Some of the families have moved away. We've asked the AP to NOT send any media here on the anniversary to protect our kids. We dont want any more of the circus! We are a small town that was shoved into the global limelight in horrific fashion.

CHILDREN were murdered and lives have been changed forever and people think it's a hoax. You need your head examined. There was absolute confusion that morning. Of course there are going to be inconsistencies but really. Have some damn respect.

Can you please provide a link to information about the vote to tear down the school?

This is new information to me, although it may be common knowledge to others.

Also, when you say that "we've" asked the AP to not send any media, who made this request? Was this something else that was voted on, and who voted?

Thanks in advance for clarification, and thank you in advance for introducing some facts to the discussion.

Newtown voted to tear down the school after receiving a $50,000,000.00 grant from the state. That's a lot of money to build an elementary school. Should cost $10,000,000.00 tops if that much.

The unofficial results Saturday were 4,504 for the grant offer and 558 against. The vote was essentially a formality since a task force of Newtown officials decided in May in favor of a plan to tear down the school and build a new one. Sandy Hook students have been attending classes at a school in neighboring Monroe.

www.ctvnews.ca...

reply to post by BillN

Taking you at your word, I can understand your frustration.
Do you know who was responsible for the lives lost in the train wreck in Midland, Texas, last year (Nov. 2012)?
Do you think there’s any reason to be concerned about “why” it happened…and/or, possibly – “who” was responsible?
You don’t live there (Midland, Texas), and otherwise…don’t care?

Every time WE are presented with an “out of the ordinary” event – and, especially, one that portends to change our lives (whether by the enactment & enforcing of new laws/restrictions, or by our own survival instincts), the first thing we generally try to do is…establish that something DID INDEED happen…and, if so…then…WHAT HAPPENED…
And…once those two frameworks are in place – we go to Why, How, When, etc…

We have long passed the day when carte blanche is freely given to the “official line”, because…we don’t know who to trust, anymore.
And, while you and others bring up a valid point – being: Mistakes will be made in the midst of crises – some pay close attention to said crises, as they play out…and, when later answers (official lines) don’t appear to line up – our need for resolution (to apparent contradictions) drives us to ask questions others are uncomfortable with (and – count unnecessary).

I can understand the feeling of “You Have No Right!”…
You are both right and wrong, though…
In a perfect world – you should be able to erect a shield to protect those dear and close to you in times and states of crisis and tragedy…
Conversely – in a perfect world – there would be no crises or tragedies to be concerned with, and thus, no need for protection.
As is obvious - this thread & tragedy are proof that this is not a perfect world.

In my opinion, ATS has worked hard to minimize further injury (or – perceived injury) to your community, by restricting the content of related discussions, and in discarding those that violate/d said restrictions.

If you remain offended at questions into this tragedy – I would hope that you can refrain from reading the threads related thereto.
Sincere Regards.

captiva
01/12/2013

The official government website for the state of Connecticut (ct.gov) lists the drill on their calendar;

leaksource.wordpress.com...

only 13 miles away drilling the exact event..

You are deliberately changing your evidence to suit your argument, here. Your own link specifically says it wasn't a drill; it was a conference, and your own link said it wasn't even about school shooters; it was planning for the needs of children to help them survive disasters (I.E. hurricanes). Then you transpose this with an actual school shooter drill, but that was in Putnam, a town on the exact opposite side of the state from where Newtown is.

In short, you are putting independently occurring events together here and connecting the dots to form a picture that you yourself want to see. You're not exactly convincing me of the credibility of your argument, here.

Mikeultra

notquitesure

BillN
I follow ATS and read the articles but never comment. I can't let this one go.

I'm amazed that there are people out there that actually think that this did not happen.

I'm from Newtown and I know families that lost children. Its astounding that people can be so ignorant in the pursuit of self satisfaction. We voted to tear the school down because who wants to send their children back to school where classmates got murdered? Kids are scared here - they see news trucks and ask did someone get killed again? This is what it is like raising children here. Some of the families have moved away. We've asked the AP to NOT send any media here on the anniversary to protect our kids. We dont want any more of the circus! We are a small town that was shoved into the global limelight in horrific fashion.

CHILDREN were murdered and lives have been changed forever and people think it's a hoax. You need your head examined. There was absolute confusion that morning. Of course there are going to be inconsistencies but really. Have some damn respect.

Can you please provide a link to information about the vote to tear down the school?

This is new information to me, although it may be common knowledge to others.

Also, when you say that "we've" asked the AP to not send any media, who made this request? Was this something else that was voted on, and who voted?

Thanks in advance for clarification, and thank you in advance for introducing some facts to the discussion.

Newtown voted to tear down the school after receiving a $50,000,000.00 grant from the state. That's a lot of money to build an elementary school. Should cost $10,000,000.00 tops if that much.

The unofficial results Saturday were 4,504 for the grant offer and 558 against. The vote was essentially a formality since a task force of Newtown officials decided in May in favor of a plan to tear down the school and build a new one. Sandy Hook students have been attending classes at a school in neighboring Monroe.

www.ctvnews.ca...

Thanks for the link.

I'm still curious about how exactly you tell the AP not to come to your town to cover a story. Who makes that call? Does the AP listen? This is an interesting detail to me and I would love to see more info if anyone has any.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


You asked for a link I gave you one...I did not argue anything...you asked a poster for a link...I found one and posted it...so i really dont know what you have your panties in a twist for

reply to post by GoodOlDave

GoodOlDave
…Your analogy really doesn't fit this scenario because your initial inventory is to determine whether you have all the pieces present before you begin. Except for motive, perhaps, we have most of the pieces on the Sandy Hook attack to have a working understanding on the events of the day, but what you're looking for isn't additional information we don't have. You want additional details on information we do have (I.E. the 9-1-1 calls. We know 9-1-1 calls were made but you want to hear what they were saying on the calls) which adds nothing tangible to the events of the day. To correct your analogy, you're insisting on knowing how a specific screw you've been given was manufactured before you put your cabinet together or else you'll dismiss it out of hand as being the wrong screw...and you won't even try to install it to see whether it actually fits in the cabinet or not.

I can see, now, that I will not be sitting on anything you put together…
…“most of the pieces”… So – you get by with “most of the pieces”.
Every time you alleged that I was/am “looking for” something, “want(ing)…the 9-1-1 calls”, “want(ing) to hear what they were saying”…you erred.
Your correction to & critique of the analogy was flawed…from top to bottom.

…Are you saying you need more information to prove what you've been told is true even though you admit you have no reason to doubt it? Logically, we both know that only one statement or the other can be correct.

That’s my job (in real life).
Look in every crack, cranny and corner… Do the work no-one-else wants to do… Make sure no crumbs, nuts, washers or other pieces of the puzzle have hidden away.
Those who do not – give mediocre results/answers.
So – your final statement is incorrect.

Making any evidence in any crime unavailable to the public is pretty stupid. No matter what the reason.

Say someone with some power wanted to commit a crime. Just follow the template, the public demands you lock up the evidence and you get away with it.

But yeah, keep arguing bout feelings guys.

captiva
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

You asked for a link I gave you one...I did not argue anything...you asked a poster for a link...I found one and posted it...so i really dont know what you have your panties in a twist for

It is becuase I do not know you from Adam, and I am trying to determine whether you are someone who has legitimate, reasonable concerns over what happened at Sandy Hook or [SNIPPED]. I therefore asked you for more information that showed the Newtown attack was really a drill since it was specifically said that was the reason why it all sounded suspicious...and you gave me a link to a site that was spewing nonsense. Now becuase of this, you are leading me to doubt your credibility.

I do not understand why I really need to explain that.

reply to post by notquitesure


The First Selectman contacted the AP and asked that they please refrain from showing up in town.

We had a Pumpkin Festival at Fairfiled Hills this year, and the organizers were restricted from advertising it for the very same reason, the community feels strongly about trying to maintain some control and normalcy so in applying for the permit we had to agree to limit the advertising to small signs on the road. No TV or Radio announcements because it was feared it would attract TV crews.