All of Existence is Dependent Upon Mind and Without Mind Nothing Exists

All of Existence is Dependent Upon Mind and Without Mind Nothing Exists.

How can we show anything to exist without a mind defining it? Not energy, not matter, but mind is the fundamental principle of all of existence. Can you show an existent or even a non-existent state existing independently of mind?

reply to post by AlienView


nvm

reply to post by AlienView


No. I agree with you completely.

In order to prove anything you must first exist. If it isn't EXPERIENCED (awareness/mind) then there is no way to study it.


By experience, I mean seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling and our 6th sense of Feeling.


Before " I Know" I must first "Be".

AlienView
All of Existence is Dependent Upon Mind and Without Mind Nothing Exists.

How can we show anything to exist without a mind defining it? Not energy, not matter, but mind is the fundamental principle of all of existence. Can you show an existent or even a non-existent state existing independently of mind?

What if the mind was nothing more than a receiver? Like a radio tuning in to pick up thoughts from an external signal.

The soul then interprets this signal. According to the reality that it has shaped built upon the unique experience that is you.

Like building blocks of belief that you have taken on and owned as part of your unique expression of you.

reply to post by iamea


Yes but 'what if'' is a mental construct, a state of mind - I can not comprehend any state of existence without mind defining it - Mind must exist first - was there ever an existent state without mind? = that woud be impossible and illogical.

reply to post by AlienView

All of Existence is Dependent Upon Mind and Without Mind Nothing Exists.

How can we show anything to exist without a mind defining it? Not energy, not matter, but mind is the fundamental principle of all of existence. Can you show an existent or even a non-existent state existing independently of mind?

This is one of those sophistic questions isn't it? "If a tree falls in the forest, etc, etc."

Things don't have to be defined to exist. Some things just are, like planets, suns, black-holes and such. They are there when we define them and they'll be there long after the last human is dust. Or did I misunderstand your statement?

Bassago
reply to post by AlienView

 

All of Existence is Dependent Upon Mind and Without Mind Nothing Exists.

How can we show anything to exist without a mind defining it? Not energy, not matter, but mind is the fundamental principle of all of existence. Can you show an existent or even a non-existent state existing independently of mind?

This is one of those sophistic questions isn't it? "If a tree falls in the forest, etc, etc."

Things don't have to be defined to exist. Some things just are, like planets, suns, black-holes and such. They are there when we define them and they'll be there long after the last human is dust. Or did I misunderstand your statement?

How do you know this? How do you know anything exists, existed, before mind? Is it your mind that tells you this? Or is it the illusion of a mindless universe that leads you to think that way? - this too is a state of mind. An independent state of existence not based upon a defining mind is unknowable - without an existent, logical and defining mind there is nothing - which is also a state of mind.

reply to post by AlienView


We figured this all out in the '70s......

Never mind no matter

no matter never mind

Don't make it so hard. What we are talking about here is the massless, weightless phenomena otherwise known as "consciousness."

You know: That immaterial phenomenon that in itself proves scientific materialism wrong and is responsible for everything from the brilliance of the pyramids to society as we know it? The subject that--if brought up--will make Ph. D's cringe and either run or spout nonsense?

The ability to think and interact in the abstract. The function, some fools say, of mere brain matter and subservient to grey jelly? Hahaha...for those that imagine so.

reply to post by AlienView


What most people call 'consciousness', where humans are involved
in any case, is a subjective self-reflection in the brain in the
circuits specialized for social interaction. In other words, despite
all the howls of protest to the contrary, the single largest activity
in any human brain, is to 'define the self' and to gain social status
for this 'self' and to defend this self and to prattle on about this
self and theories which reinforce this self-image. But this is not
in fact consciousness.

When one experiences nirvi-kalpa samahdi, one learns what
'consciousness' really is.. or rather the actual 'mental substrate'
behind everything which exists --- which is timeless awareness
which springs from timeless structure (of all possibilities expressed
as a potential at a minimum energy state).

When this raw awareness intersects with matter and energy
(which are both forms of the basic structure) then you get
'consciousness'. The real fact, is that the universe which is
really raw awareness and raw infinite structure potential
HAS TO GROW BRAINS and similar structures, to fully
experience itself, to become 'conscious'.

This is in fact why we exist at all.

My 2 cents.

KPB

reply to post by The GUT

Agreed, but still we are dealing with states of mind wherever you may go with it and however you may define it. Can consciousness exist without mind? No, consciousness requires mind. Some may still ask what is mind? - I may ask what isn't mind?

reply to post by AlienView

Can you show an existent or even a non-existent state existing independently of mind?

No. But just imagine if you could.

reply to post by AlienView


What is "mind" if not "consciousness?" I think we're on the same page?

reply to post by AlienView

How can we show anything to exist without a mind defining it? Not energy, not matter, but mind is the fundamental principle of all of existence. Can you show an existent or even a non-existent state existing independently of mind?

In order for this to be true, one must first explain what mind is and how it exists, because to my eyes there is no such thing. Saying that everything is dependent on what amounts to nothing is illogical. Something is not fundamental if it doesn't exist.

Aphorism
In order for this to be true, one must first explain what mind is and how it exists, because to my eyes there is no such thing. Saying that everything is dependent on what amounts to nothing is illogical. Something is not fundamental if it doesn't exist.

Right. That makes sense. Aphorism thinks therefore he's not. Next.

reply to post by iamea


What if the mind is both the broadcaster and receiver all at once?

We are both the avatar and the gamer, the painter and the painting, the creator and the created, the everything and the nothing.

S&F OP. It is true, without consciousness nothing exists and nothing exists outside of the perception of consciousness.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

The problem I have here is trying to define and understand consciousness. Many times I get into debates on the issue of whether AI [artificial intelligence, computers] can become conscious and often the naysayers who say it can not happen can not adequately define consciousness. What is conscious? How conscious? Conscious of what, of who?
You see I'm not sure what consciousness is - are you? 'Mind' on the other hand, which is also open to interpretation, can be viewed as a prime concept - we can not perceive, communicate, or inter-react without mind. And I can not understand how anything can exist without mind.

AlienView
All of Existence is Dependent Upon Mind and Without Mind Nothing Exists.

How can we show anything to exist without a mind defining it? Not energy, not matter, but mind is the fundamental principle of all of existence. Can you show an existent or even a non-existent state existing independently of mind?

Maybe you're correct about suggesting the idea that we are unable to show that anything exists without a mind defining it. By the fundamental nature of consciousness, along with observation, it would be contradictory in a way to attempt to "show" something that is essentially "un-showable"........ That being said how can we really say one way or the other weather or not something is able to exist without our observations?

reply to post by AlienView


Either way it's a surely thought provoking concept to say the least, at the same time i feel that the potential affirmation of the implied ideology may negate the very conceptual basis of the question itself

no this is completely false. mind is an accumulation of external impressions that mold an identity. mind is a closed system, like a shell incubating life. one is capable of going beyond mind and transcend daulity. one might say the experience of duality is created within the mind. to say the mind is actually creating all this is misleading unless one is speaking in terms of the mind recreating an internal image of what is outside via information gathered through all the sense perceptions not limited to physical senses