The dilemma of to return or not return.

Maybe I'm deluding myself but I just have no desire to return to this world in another life. Supposedly desire is what compels us to return. Desire to do something we didn't do in our present life. Desire to connect with someone in some way, or desire to become rich when we spent a life in poverty. A desire to be tall when we were short, handsome when we were homely. Many variations of this desire.

But I have absolutely no desire to return to this place for any reason. And yet, if I am allowed to not return (big question whether this is true), there are two reasons why it would be difficult to not come back despite my desire to not be here in this beautiful but nasty world.

There is so much suffering here. How can I just say I'm out of here, leaving the suffering behind? And I'm not just talking about human animals. Other animals are being treated very cruelly by we humans. I currently feed homeless cats. These cats and other animals and other humans need help, and will continue to need help.

The other reason it would be hard to chose not to come back, despite my desire to be somewhere without hate and violence and starvation and exploitation, is that there are people, family and friends, that might be programmed to return by who know who. I don't want to leave them behind.

I'm sad to say a hugely reluctant return is my likely future.

Have to say that I agree with you.

The reincarnation crowd seems eager to jump right back in… not me. Physical reality sucks.

There is no way I would choose to return here either!!!!!!!!! Though there are profound moments of love, beauty and awe, joy and happiness, there is too much suffering and pain emotionally and physically, the world is too fast paced and chaotic and cruel in its wars and lack of compassion and even common sense.

One of the theories I have about reincarnation is that you could be incarnated into a different world or time (either past or in the future).

When the time comes for me, I think i'd like to go to a D&D world or perhaps a futuristic world with some kickass spaceships haha.

Who knows...guess i'll find out sometime...not soon though...still have to finish building my garage.

reply to post by droid56


It's about coming back to help others end their suffering. Not there yet if you aren't thinking of others before yourself.

Being overwhelmed about the suffering around you is a great start. Avoiding it, in whatever way you choose, is not a long term answer.

I don't want to come back either, but I know I can't just stomp my feet like a three year old and cry "No, you can't make me" when it's time to return. Think it's more complex then that but it's the basic idea.

A quote in a Pema Chodron books speaks of a great Tibetan Buddhist teacher telling non-buddhists the gist of buddism in this way: "You are going to die. The only thing you will take with you is your state of mind."

And that state of mind will determine your state between births and the state of your next incarnation.

Enlightened ones, choose to come back to ease others suffering and to teach the ways to end that suffering.

Don't like it so much? Leave. Complaining about life but continuing to live is like complaining about a television show but continuing to watch it. It's dishonest, hypocritical and disrespectful to the world in which you continue to live in and abuse how you see fit. No one is keeping you here.

If anyone thinks life sucks it is because they need to get out more; there is seriously too much to experience that one could never experience everything. Sick of looking at your walls? Go outside. Tired of your government? Go try a different one. Sick of people? Don't live in a populated area. Don't like to hear about suffering? Turn off the news.

If you long for the afterlife or non-physical reality, ask what the afterlife and non-physical reality have ever done for you, and make your move there.

reply to post by droid56


you are deluding yourself in thinking others as separate to yourself, if you see all as one, then the illusion of having to help others drops away, as you are only helping yourself, and it is yourself which has tasked yourself in acting in such a way, so really, you are getting in your own way

let it go

also, it'll go on for eternity, so stay a while, who knows, you might end up leaving

I have a somewhat different view on transcendence and reincarnation than some, so I'm not sure how relevant my take on this will feel to everyone, but here goes.

If the point of life is to transcend individual physical form and "be one with everything" then consideration of illusory suffering by illusory individuals is probably besides the point. The point is probably that a transcendent thing- call it god, call it the eschaton, call it the one thing to rule the all- whatever- is assembling itself into a whole out of separate parts, and the subjective experience of those parts before assembly probably doesn't matter much, just as long as they are moved towards assembly- if suffering might bring enlightenment and/or pleasure might obscure it, then stopping suffering might not be the answer.

Whatever the point of life is though, I suspect it will happen as a natural consequence. The world balances itself so that everything works with everything doing exactly what they would naturally want to do. Imagine that you were a cow for a moment. As far as mushrooms are concerned you're there to distribute and fertilize mushrooms. As far as humans are concerned you are there to turn grass into meat. As far as the soil is concerned you're there to till. You do all kinds of stuff that is good for the whole of nature and supports whatever nature as a whole is here to do, and you can't possibly fail at any of it- all you have to do is keep walking eating and pooping and you will be a good cow, but since its all in your nature and not conscious, you could be doing fine and still agonize over every bug you step on and the fact that you sit in a pasture without much conscious activity and just be sure there is no point in being a cow and the only reason to come back and be a cow again is so the rest of the herd won't get lonely. Sure cows can hurt nature- they can strip the land bare- but they don't have to worry about that on a philosophical level- nature will kill them before they kill it, so all they have to do is pursue their own survival and they can do no wrong.

The same goes for being human I think. The harm we do seems very real from our point of view but is probably either meaningless or even part of our role in integrating the world into its all-transcendent future self. We are the part of nature with which nature looks at itself and consciously manipulates itself- the eyes and hands of nature in a sense. We think we're just being selfish, but nature is playing us. We aren't polluting, Nature invented us so we could speed up genetic development by taking it from random to directed, so we could make new minerals for nature to play with like plastic, so we could collapse the entire universe into a singularity with a machine that didn't work the way we thought it would... who knows. But we'll get the job done despite ourselves.

I doubt it has anything to do with what I want or choose- i'll probably be back until nature doesn't need me anymore, and I suppose there's no reason not to embrace that as long as I'm assured that there's no good reason I can't do what I like and not worry.

reply to post by droid56


I had these thoughts for a very long time, I still do sometimes. I believe we do have the choice of whether coming back here or not, the thing is... Well, it's a bit complicated:

• We are not our minds nor our body, who we truly are is neither of them. We only identify with it by calling it me, and by living in a very dark society that believes in basically the opposite of everything truth has to offer.
  
• When we identify with our mind & body we often feel like suffering, because we forgot who we are (light) and have separated ourselves from the rest of the existence.
  
• In the moment of (long-expected) death to release us from this misery, we finally realize we are actually not the mind nor the body, and we feel great liberation. We just made this all thing up, it was our delusion.
  
• So now we feel much lighter, unidentified with the misery of the planet and that's where we have a choice to either not returning or going back.
  
• This works pretty much the same as quitting a job very eagerly, and then after a while thinking "hey, it wasn't so bad.
  
• From that point of detachment, we see life on Earth very differently, and we wish to know ourselves as who we are in the experience again, rather than merely in the knowing.
  
• That is usually when we decide to come back, to know ourselves in our own experience.
  
• That means there's no point or meaning to anything in here, rather than the meaning we are giving it to it. It's an understanding easy to forget but vital, since that is the key to realize who are not here to do anything (there's nothing to do really) rather than know who we truly are in our own experience.
  
• Pain, suffering and misery only happens when we forget ourselves, when we know who are there cannot be any pain. The light of Self is too powerful for such low energies to have its effect.
  
• And when we forget ourselves (like we usually do, unless our primary focus in life is inward) we feel the identification with our mind & body, and the pain that comes with it, and want out.
  

And then circle is completed lol.

My point is, when we honestly feel like we have nothing we wish to experience here, that's when we will (or can honestly) choose not to come back as it doesn't support our evolution. Pain is not a reason of not going back, but actually a reason of why going back. As harsh as it might seem.

Knowing yourself is the only liberation.

I seriously doubt we have a choice in the matter.

It seems to me that there is sufficient proof out there that there is little that we can do about being recycled into this reality until such time that we can ascend.

Ascending is no small matter, as it takes a soul of a master to do so.

Someone who is followed by a great many people, without asking for it, without taking it upon their own ego, or doing it for any gain to themselves, just gives unconditional love. But having creative talents or just plain unconditional love and becomes a household word around the world.

Someone who you would pray to them, or trust them even if you do not know them personally.

So if this doesn't describe you, then sorry guys but your coming back until it does. lol. It certainly doesn't describe me.

Perhaps we can put our name down for a big role next time, but buyer beware as to travel this path you will need to experience everything that this reality has to offer.