Marxism in the USA: Establish a basic income guarantee for all Americans

ojdidit

amatrine


More entitlements to the entitlement generation. I would rather see people working for their money, and doing something productive.

That's your vision of the ideal human life? Working for money and doing something "productive"? Productive of what? Pointless garbage that nobody needs? A new yacht for the CEO? Arthritis and a bad back? Man, I feel for you. How about a vision of people finding fulfillment in life without having to worry about being out on the street with their kids and no food and no money?

I already think like this; most of the world doesn't. Cant be helped.

ojdidit

amatrine


More entitlements to the entitlement generation. I would rather see people working for their money, and doing something productive.

That's your vision of the ideal human life? Working for money and doing something "productive"? Productive of what? Pointless garbage that nobody needs? A new yacht for the CEO? Arthritis and a bad back? Man, I feel for you. How about a vision of people finding fulfillment in life without having to worry about being out on the street with their kids and no food and no money?

You know, I have had to face, very seriously, being on the street with my kids and no money to feed them.

And I will stand strong against such a thing as is being proposed here. This is insane!

Yes working IS being productive... its making, or selling, products that people use, lest there wouldn't be a market for them. I HATED not working for the time that I was unable... and am so happy that I am able to work again... I am proud of the fact that I work, that I am self sufficient, that I don't have to ask anyone for help... PROUD of it...

And I earn as much as I work for... and as I have experience and knowledge my income will increase... I don't need to be rich... but I NEED to work....

No one, and I don't care who they are... needs handouts... they need the ability to work.

The Human is a creature that is designed to work... our muscles thrive on it, our heat beats because of it. Everything about us physically is designed to work...and in order to thrive, we must use what we have, otherwise we atrophy.

We aren't designed for doing nothing but sitting on our behinds constantly.

Given all sorts of benefits and tax cuts, something similar may have been taking place for years.

Dynamitrios
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

seriously... have you ever been in need ? or downright poor?... you would find that "comfortable" ?

why don t you go live like that then?

I am a very successful adult who grew up in housing projects. There are generations of folks who have not budged from those housing projects, no need to; all their basic needs are met: Food, housing, healthcare, utilities, etc... comfortable?

Most I knew owned a car, space-age microwave ovens, colour TVs, $200 basketball shoes, cableTV, internet, cell phones, were well overfed and these are the "poor" folks who need ever more. To a person, all devoted Democrats expecting more scraps in return for their vote.

The potential of generations of entire lives wasted in the name of job security for the plantation masters. Some manage to flee. The ones who do not are soon to be the majority of voters in this country soon.

Daughter2

badgerprints
I have no sympathy for the useless, whining, bunch of puss filled maggots that the US is paying good money to sit on their butts and do nothing.

You mean the "puss filled maggots" who are most likely children, elderly and the disabled? That's who almost always receives aid. If you are a healthy adult without children, you don't get check.

I'm so tried of people like you justifying hurting a very vulnerable group of people just based on a few rumors of people abusing the system. Sure, tell me about the time you saw someone paying for shrimp with foodstamps or the time you saw a nice car in the drive way of someone rumored to be receiving welfare. Feel free to ignore all the studies that show the vast majority of people are honest.

There's corporations who pollute, produce toxic merchandise, and conduct illegal activities. I don't hear you crying for their destruction?

edit on November 21st 2013 by Daughter2 because: (no reason given)

I'm tired of people "like you" trying to justify the 85 billion dollar a day buyout of votes from the most corrupt and lazy nation in the history of the planet based on the excuse of caring for a few 'vulnerable' people.

Bone75
reply to post by badgerprints

 

Would you be opposed to forcing them to work?

I would. Because I'm an evil, bigoted, scumbag who still believes a person is responsible for providing food, shelter and clothing for him/her self. Enlightened minds feel that accountability is inhumane so I really can't relate.

But CAN you force someone to work?
No.
You can't do that.
But you don't need to pay them to not work. And to pay for them to have children who follow the same path. It simply creates a larger population of people that have no incentive to take care of themselves.

Shut up racist,homophobe, thought criminal!

Marxism is great! It will be just like in the ussr and north korea. I am reporting you to communitarian central planning/DHS. Traitor! Terrorist!

You must love the state with all your heart slave.

Sorry I'm a little late getting back to this thread, I was on the road.

I think most everyone responding here is conflating 'money' with 'resources'. There's a difference.

I encourage everyone especially the 'Star Trek' mentioners to investigate the Zeitgeist Movement. The posters who equate 'money' with 'work' really need to investigate it, but they probably won't.

Basically, it's an attempt to rethink a global economy based on looking at it anew; evaluating using modern methods what our global resources are, what our true needs are (not wants and especially not manufactured via advertising wants) and how to proceed accordingly, as if we were new colonists arriving at a newly discovered planet.

I think it needs to be stated that a mindset in which everyone was provided for via available resources as to their needs (food, housing, education, medical care, travel) would do much to eliminate crime as a large issue. As to 'who?' would provide these things, you could have the equivalent of a Peace Corps or voluntary service where people could train in subjects of their choice and work in corresponding fields as a form of service, giving back for what they had been given, and that if society valued this, encouraged it and honored it, most everyone would take part, for most of a lifetime. (Juxtapose that honoring with the way we honor military service now, to our utter detriment...there is nothing more heinous to me than the way we are supposed to 'thank veterans for their service' while forgetting that 'their service' simply leads to wars, deaths, damaged people and a few rich guys making a killing (heh) on the war machine).

What if 'going to work' wasn't a mad dash on a crowded highway after dropping your crying 3-year-old off at daycare to labor for 8.5 hours at something you could barely tolerate, but instead was an avocation based on your interests, that only took a few hours a week of your time unless you wanted to do it more, and when your children were young, you could take unlimited time to care for them, or if you felt your time would be best spent in providing society's needs in other ways, your children were taken care of by skilled professionals who loved their work, (not by minimum wage barely educated staffers)?

What if robots provided most of humanity's production and farm labor? What if people who really like the idea of robots and technology spent some of their time maintaining, creating and inventing the robots?

What if people were told, 'no you can't have a Lamborghini' because half of Africa still doesn't have food?
What if there was no Lamborghini commercials convincing you that you needed one (to get laid...)?
What if people were honored for their service to society above and beyond the minimum, and that, along with a feeling of self worth and accomplishment, were their payment?

What if 'to provide for the common defense' was taken to mean, 'to make sure everyone is taken care of' based on Maslow's hierarchy of needs?

What if, what if, what if?

It makes for a fascinating mental discussion. As I see it, every time mankind has had a decision to make on which way to go, it's taken the wrong path. Every. Damn. Time.

badgerprints

Bone75
reply to post by badgerprints

 

Would you be opposed to forcing them to work?

I would. Because I'm an evil, bigoted, scumbag who still believes a person is responsible for providing food, shelter and clothing for him/her self. Enlightened minds feel that accountability is inhumane so I really can't relate.

But CAN you force someone to work?
No.
You can't do that.
But you don't need to pay them to not work. And to pay for them to have children who follow the same path. It simply creates a larger population of people that have no incentive to take care of themselves.

Then how do you suggest we separate those who have legitimate special needs from those who are milking the system without growing the government or increasing taxes? That's the thing with you folks, you're full of complaints but short on solutions. Those programs arose out of need. Its not like a bunch of bureaucrats sat around a table figuring out a way to give a bunch of lazy people a bunch of free stuff.

Bone75
Its not like a bunch of bureaucrats sat around a table figuring out a way to give a bunch of lazy people a bunch of free stuff.

Actually, it's exactly like that.
In return, the bureaucrats get a vote.

Pejeu

John_Rodger_Cornman
If we didn't have a FED that would not be true.

Loose change was a good movie.

You and the rest of the right wingers against this petition have absolutely no clue what you're talking about or how the world actually works.

The FED prints but a tiny fraction of the money supply.

Only a tiny percentage of the money supply is physical cash and coins.

The rest, the lion's share, is make-believe cash conjured up by the banks each and every single time they extend a loan to someone or something (a corporation).

The rich conjure up money for themselves by inflating asset prices. That is the current system.

That is why the money supply has been growing exponentially ever since we had private, for profit, monetary system.

That is to say, a banking system.

Banks create the nation's currency. All banks. Every nation's.

Each and every single time they extend a loan.

Naturally, most people are simply too bloody slow to comprehend this.

And since right wingers are, by their virtue of being right wingers, not the sharpest tools in the shed...

If you've ever bought something on bank credit in your life please, for #'s sake, realise that that was newly conjured up fictional cash you used to buy what you did.

The money in your bank isn't real cash. It doesn't physically exists.

It's just promises to pay, on demand, said amount of cash. Which doesn't really exist.

Which is why bank runs happen and spread.

There's 30~35 more drawing rights against the banks for cash then there's ever cash held in reserve by the bank.

You clueless simpletons.

And yet here you are protesting any attempt whatsoever to skew the game less in your disadvantage and more in your advantage, as ordinary - most likely working for a living - folk.

What the banking system does is to lend the same cash over and over again at the same time to different people.

Which is functionally equivalent to loaning counterfeit money.

Which is the actual source of inflation, which is a monetary phenomenon.

Wake the # up already.

Even your neoliberal god proposed something akin to a guaranteed/unconditional basic income:

You peons.

Boy, your right wing really did a number on you, didn't it?

In the current system the rich filth parasites get to conjure up out of thin air all the money they want for themselves.

Yet you won't even entertain the thought of having a cut for yourselves.

edit on 2013/11/20 by Pejeu because: (no reason given)

I am not a republican.

Trick no good statist.