Things People Say They Can or Would do in a Survival Situation – and Why They Won’t ..

Five Things People Say They Can or Would do in a Survival Situation – and Why They Won’t Based on Recent 3rd World Urban Survival Events

Excerpts:

No matter how well fortified you are you can not hold back hundreds of people, desperate people will crawl over body’s to get you.

Given, the US (or the 1st world in general) is a bit more civilized, but I still give any major metropolitan city in the US 10 to 15 days before it is at the same level of chaos that a city in the 3rd world would be at after only a day under the same circumstances.

I found it a good read - and it rung true. Thoughts? -Mags

reply to post by Insurrection


To be honest I fear unruly or self-entitled people most of all in a SHTF situation. I know from experience that a great many people are unkind and would not hesitate to rob or engage in violent acts. However when it's an act of nature where all are affected, the goodness of people rises to the surface too. My instincts tell me that if I keep my wits about me, I may pull through, but who is really to say?

Any major metropolitan center has but three days of food on the grocery store shelves. After that people hunt out any game, eat their pets and then each other. If the city is quarantined because of plague for instance, all the major thoroughfares, like freeway bridges in and out of the region, trains and airports are closed, blockaded and guarded to prevent the further spread of disease.

Until the plague runs its course nobody is allowed in or out.

Funeral pyres light the night sky.

It's Medieval…

(insert twilight zone theme)

A third of the US population already expects and receives free money to live on in return for a vote.
Once the free stuff runs out they will be the first to start stealing.

Why? Because they already feel entitled to a living based on stealing from those who work for it.

That's a hundred million+ people who expect to be taken care of and will go off the deep end when the free ride stops.

The cities hold the majority of these people and will likely be chaotic death traps within a few weeks.

reply to post by Insurrection


WRONG...I have already done 2 of the things on the list.
Maybe not exactly like in the article, but...
I will not say which 2 though.
Use your imagination.

Insurrection
Five Things People Say They Can or Would do in a Survival Situation – and Why They Won’t Based on Recent 3rd World Urban Survival Events

Excerpts:

No matter how well fortified you are you can not hold back hundreds of people, desperate people will crawl over body’s to get you.

-----

NO LONGER TRUE !!!!

Combine backup power, cheap rugged EMP resistant laptop (Itronix 260), plus powerful open source machine vision software attached to cheap stepper motors and add Maraging Steel pipe plus lots and
lots of bullets...and this type of setup can make an absolute MOCKERY of that statement:

Gladiator 3 fully autonomous sentry gun:
www.youtube.com...

The only limit is BULLETS or if you use electro-coils you could make a homemade
RAIL GUN and shoot TENS OF MILLIONS of simple nails at speeds in excess of 15,000 kph
which will pretty much go through ALL body armour and even 2 inch thick STEEL plate

Full auto systems can go as high as 10,000 rounds per minute and with modern
auto-aiming and tracking software, you could EASILY track over 30,000 objects
PER SECOND on a cheap laptop...add some more laptops and you can do auto-find,
hunt, autotrack, target and hit MILLIONS of oncoming targets PER SECOND!

The higher the horsepower of the computer and the more auto-sentry guns you have
the more targets you can FULL AUTO-HIT per second!

You could literally have an oncoming hoard of 10 million people and
KILL EVERY SINGLE ONE within 60 seconds!

Machines Win! Humans Lose!!!

----

Given, the US (or the 1st world in general) is a bit more civilized, but I still give any major metropolitan city in the US 10 to 15 days before it is at the same level of chaos that a city in the 3rd world would be at after only a day under the same circumstances.

---
We are 9 MEALS (3 days without food!) from anarchy.... and because of JUST IN TIME delivery
systems most grocery stores have little more than that in stock at any time!

----

I found it a good read - and it rung true. Thoughts? -Mags

reply to post by Insurrection


---

regarding the other things on the list...

Eating Catfood or dog food during a SHTF?

NO PROBLEM ---Already done that! Add in dog bones, soft dog food, cat chew and even meow mix
I've eaten them ALL --- if it was good enough for me, its good enough for YOU!!!

---

Cannibalism? NO PROBLEM!!! In a SHTF scenario...one of the first places I'm going
are near gyms and other workout places where the body builders and fit people
WILL LIKELY congregate....to me...they WILL be DINNER!!!!

5 or ten on ice will feed me a month till the gangs and everyone else
kills themselves off and then get out of the major metro areas.

(and YES you can make your own ice and keep it solid with simple sawdust
and an old fridge --- just like my grandparents did in their hard farm lives)
---

To survive in the city...you hunker down low until everyone gets killed off
then you bug out at night on a mountain bike WITH night vision (which I've DONE!)
and head for a pre-set rural locale. High deserts are best (normal people
won't go there!) near NATURAL oasis-like areas where there is water
and some semblance of natural vegetation (i.e. parts of Dakotas/Utah/Wyoming)
AND extreme environment that is harsh enough to kill off the unwary and unprepared
(of which I am not UNprepared!) Then you go up North into Alberta and British Columbia
Canada and wait out for the Biting Winter to kill off the rest of the unprepared hordes!

Once they're all frozen by a brutal winter... back down on south and make sure you
travel at night ONLY and OBSERVE your surroundings and ANY suburban or urban environs
for a while before you try and make contact...i.e. observe if possible contacts are unruly
pillaging gangs or are skilled banded-together survivor groups...the 2 or 3 days of hidden
observation allows you to make a choice as to contact or move on to the next area!

The keys are to OBSERVE and EVADE when needed!

And for long term travel and food...the best places to go are the NON obvious places.

Walk on abandoned or little used rail lines ....stay at city works yards camping in
large drainage pipes used for sewer construction or another one is going to libraries
for information such as city maps, road maps, then use their newspapers and books
for fire kindling. Get a yellow pages from a library and find auction houses where
older vehicles, bicycles, tools and other material is stored that very few will know are there!

Goto a taxi cab company office or large trucking warehouse where walkie talkies,
radios and batteries would still be left behind. Their trucker's or drivers meeting room will
likely have a cafeteria with snack machines, some canned food and probably coffee
and tea still there. Some of the trailers or abandoned truck cabs MIGHT have food in them.

auto mechanic shops tend to have a lot of cars in shop with FUEL in them.
Drain the tanks and take a just repaired car (usually is a sticker on them!)
and fill the tank with fuel from all the rest of the non-working cars.

Small jeeps or suzuki sidekick-like vehicles are best and then travel
ON the railroad tracks INSTEAD of using the roads!!! You'll avoid roadblocks!
Take as much gas as your vehicle can carry and take all the coffee and milk powder
that are usually in such auto repair shops...they have high energy and fat content.
They tend to have a few large water bottles in their storage areas --- take those too!!!
And take any mechanics overalls and gloves you can find and fit in --- they will keep you warm.

Since it is likely that all the gas stations and major hardware stores will be looted,
take that pilfered yellow pages and find a welding ship or two that will have a spare
filled tank or three of propane and their torch attachments hanging about. That's your
cooking and fire starting fuel! Take the welding gloves, leather aprons and worker boots
for warmth and protection and any basic tools such as pliers, knives, hammers, duct tape, rope, etc.
Take Anything that can be used to pry something open, hold something together, or used as a weapon.

Take any tarpaulins (i.e. sheet plastic) they have left around as weather protection or as a makeshift tent.
Then Find a Work Out Gym and take and/or cut up their thick foam mats to be used as bedding!
Take the small weights off the their bars and keep the bars as weapons and as pry tools!
They also tend to have towels and branded gym clothes which can be used for yourself.
Take all their soap and hygiene products stored in storage closets...There is usually a small
staff room that tends to have buckets of edible protein powder and high protein bars
so take those too!!! Almost every major city will have a SMALL electronics store that
is considered a "Spy Store" that sell tiny cameras AND NIGHT VISION gear which is
what you want to find and keep! Remember to take all the 9-volt or 1.5 volt batteries
you can find in that store that will fit the night vision gear...!!!! And also in a big city
there tends to be small-time security companies that usually guard warehouses or patrol
industrial districts...THEY ALSO have batteries for their radios, extra walkie talkies
AND LIKELY SMALL ARMS and ammo in sealed storage lockers which you can break into and take!

---

The point of the above is to point out even in a looted city, MANY areas FULL of useful
materiel will go unnoticedvand IGNORED by the roving and raging crowds who just don't
know any better.

BUT SINCE YOU NOW HAVE KNOWLEDGE...you can take advantage of that and go where
other don't or won't go!!!!

One of my favorite blogs. However, I think he's of the mindset that most Americans are soft suburban types. I think it's a rather broad generalization. I've seen spoiled only child syndrome people have remarkable grit underneath all the softness, you just have to find the button that turns it on. Then again some people just lock up and become helpless.

He makes too many generalizations. I think the Hurricane Katrina aftermath in New Orleans and the LA riots in 1992 are good examples. People did leave on foot and people did defend their stores and homes successfully,

He also separates the people from the mob. So somehow a person wouldn't be able to eat cat food, then he says a desperate person would climb over bodies under the threat of gunfire to get to another person. Which is it? Are people desperate or aren't they? Are they the person who can't do those 5 things or are they the mob that is willing to set a house alight because the people inside won't give them access to their "stuff" under threat of lethal force? The people are the mob, and the mob are the people. Everything he says the mob will do, the individual who "can't do those 5 things" can very well do, too.

You and I, we are the mob. Not to put to fine a point on it. Most of the mob is made up of normal every day people who think of themselves as normal, rational people. You or I could very easily be the one shooting anyone trying to get in our house to eat our cache of cat food, or we could be the people trying to set the house on fire because we can't get to the cat food, peculiarly denying ourselves of cat food in the process.

Smart fellow, but in his arrogance he made a huge logic fail and looked like a douche. I'll keep reading his blog though.

reply to post by Insurrection


10 - 15 days!?? How long did it take during Hurricane Katrina? Glad you are so optimistic though!

The only thing i fear is someone one or groups(religious or liberal) setting themselves up as the power in charge and trying to take my supplies or weapons.

I will move back from these groups and give them a warning to mind there own business or else.

I will also group up with any like minded veterans or others to protect what is ours.

Yes and no.

While I appreciate the article's author for his willingness to challenge the cherished mythologies of survivalists, almost every single one of his categories depends on the particulars. And survival situations are dangerous precisely because they are both very fluid and highly contextual. Or even extremely so.

Bugging out on Foot.

That one depends largely on the people in your neighborhood. He writes that you'll be robbed within 15 minutes, which is true if you walk it ALONE and in the middle of the street. IF there are say, 5 of you, traveling by bounding overreach, and surveilling your flanks, you'll find a different response. Granted, not a positive one; but not looking to rob you.

The other context is whether the people running a roadblock are an "us" or a "them." During the L.A. riots, people on the edge of the zone parked their cars across their cul-de-sac and intimidated vehicles filled with hoodies looking to spread the riot. They didn't exchange gunfire. And if one individual got out of the car on foot and explained why they needed to get through, there probably wouldn't have been violence, even if the individual was turned away.

Also, the suburbanites didn't block the highways or the multi-lane streets, because setting up a roadblock is at least as risky as trying to get past one. You block a big road, and more people will be stopped who will suddenly decide to cooperate on removing your blockage. For this reason, a lot of major arteries may remain relatively clear (other than stalled vehicles)...

The long and short of it is, when people are in the real world, they don't want to risk a confrontation unless the odds are heavily stacked in their favor. If you watch the newsfeed from the LA riots, you see that the Korean storekeepers are firing their guns for effect, and at medium ranges. It's not like a human wave is pouring into their parking lots.

The other thing about survival writing that no one ever accounts for is that courage requires calories. Studies have shown that once people take in less than about 1000-1200 calories for several days, they become listless and find exercise to be difficult. Further, their thinking is slowed and they tend not to initiate activity. This is why prison camps keep the inmates on a starvation diet---it makes them easier to handle. So after the 3rd day of a disaster, you will see less and less firefights, fewer roadblocks manned after dark, fewer confrontations over booty.

Finally, for all the individuals that the author claims don't make it out on foot, there are thousands who do. Thousands of Parisians fled the Nazis on foot, and made it to the south, or even to spain, with nothing but handouts. True of every war, just as it is currently true in Afghanistan. And I seriously doubt there is any shortage of bandits along the Paki border. The UN High Commissioner for Refugees estimates there are a total of 15 million refugees worldwide, from all sources right now. I bet most of them are not taking a taxi or riding in an SUV.

The other thing about survival writing that no one ever accounts for is that courage requires calories. Studies have shown that once people take in less than about 1000-1200 calories for several days, they become listless and find exercise to be difficult. Further, their thinking is slowed and they tend not to initiate activity. This is why prison camps keep the inmates on a starvation diet---it makes them easier to handle. So after the 3rd day of a disaster, you will see less and less firefights, fewer roadblocks manned after dark, fewer confrontations over booty.

Excellent post.When it comes to starvation the best laboratory in history was Stalingrad. Both Soviet and German doctors inside the besieged city were stunned by the many deaths that occurred before starvation took it's toll on both sides. They claimed-and still do-that hopelessness and the desperate situation caused men to die before the body failed due to it's inability to produce red blood cells that carry oxygen-which is technically starvation. And these were not isolated incidents as the number that starved was well over 100,000 on both sides.

Also, and this surprised me totally-is that air drops of food caused more deaths that in areas that had no food drops. This was because solders would grab the containers and in there desperation consume fats that their shrinking stomachs could not handle, and the overflow poisoned their bloodstream.

There are parts of the original article that I agree with, as far as people not doing what they believe they will.

On the other hand, the author does act like a major catastrophe will never happen again. I have to disagree with that. Now. I don't know whether there will be a major one in my area during my lifetime. Yet the simple fact is, every civilization before the 5 currently in business has gone extinct.

Previous civilizations have been felled by famine, invasion, plague, and natural disaster. Are we the exception? will our Empire last a thousand years? Really?