Hive mind vs. freedom

We all like to think and say we are and feel human, we try to help each other, the closer in blood or time spent together [friendship] the more you feel connected.

A hive mind does everything for the hive first, there is no greed, jealously or personnel benefit.

So why is it then, that both seem to be equally restricted?


I think humans pretend to be a hive, while doing whats best for ones self and family/friends.

Did we raise above the rest because we can lie? I think so. Is this the reason why politicians steer or progress?


Just thought it was an interesting idea. We are able to decide between the hive and ourselves/situation/family/friends when it suits us.

Should we be more one or the other now we are on top?

reply to post by Biigs

Sometimes a hive mind benefits from the agility of a free thinker. Sometimes a free thinker benefits from the connectivity of a hive mind.

Why not the freedom to choose between hivemind and individuality?

reply to post by Biigs

Dear Biigs,

Thanks for the interesting question, well done.

I think the more definite answer you get, "Hive" or "Self," the more likely it is to be wrong. One other difficulty is that humans are found in different cultures, as well as the normal variability we share. Let me give you an example.

In the military, all training goes to the idea that the individual is part of a group, and the self must be wholly subordinated to the needs of the group in accomplishing the mission. That's why you'll occasionally hear of a soldier falling on a grenade to save his buddies nearby, or one man rushing a machine gun to protect his fellows, or rescuing the wounded while taking several wounds himself.

The situation is different in wealthy suburbs, or in any generally peaceful area where demands are not so drastic. I understand that we are not often called on to risk our lives, but I think this shows one possible answer to your question.

On the other hand, we have complete disdain and rejection for the person who satisfies his own desires by molesting children, or parents who enrich themselves by failing to pay child support when they have the ability to do so.

If you'd like a tentative answer, I'd say the goal in ordinary circumstances should be to take care of your family and others which you have a legal or moral obligation to do so. I'm primarily thinking of family. When that is completed to a reasonable level (Yeah, I know "Reasonable" is a weasel word. A $100 million dollar trust fund is not reasonable.) then the obligation is to help the others who come to your awareness.

One problem we're having is that a gift, by it's very definition, has to be freely given. It may be anonymously given, but the current system of taking money from citizens by the threat of force, then distributing it en masse without real human concern, is a joke and a de-humanizing one.

I may have avoided your question, unintentionally, but I'd be glad to explore it further with you if you'd like.

With respect,
Charles1952

BardingTheBard
reply to post by Biigs

 

Sometimes a hive mind benefits from the agility of a free thinker. Sometimes a free thinker benefits from the connectivity of a hive mind.

Depends on how either is being used.

There is no human hive mind, we are not ants, nor bees. We dont have a queen that thinks for us.
Although the transhumanists would love us to be a hive, with the elite as the "queen".
We are social communal beings but we are separated, we are free from each other.
We have our own thoughts, as much as we are allowed to in this propaganda filled world.

The hive mind in humans is a lie. To make us more subservient slaves to the elite.
Humans are more self serving than community serving.

Perhaps the answer is deeper, the ability to choose to go with the hive, go with the family or lie about both to better ones self.

Im trying to understand how corruption gets almost everywhere. Our ability to choose whats right against our instincts, can save the hive or prosper the self.

How do you constructed an ordered society when everyone is cable of it all.

Greed fuels it.

A bug, a nest, a coyote, a pack - both do strikingly similar things yet either never ever really does much better than the other. With the exception of the coyote.

Why is that? The alpha pack leading coyote can chose for the pack or himself. Perhaps we all think of ourselves as alphas, when we are really workers in a colony?

AfterInfinity
Depends on how either is being used.

Context and who is interpreting are primal.

What if ants had a king, a leader, a decision maker with respect for the hive, yet could lie, take pride could think outside the hives programming?

Some times i think thats whats happend already, only the ants arnt the ants in my thought, the ants are us: and our trusting faith the play things of the men and women really free to change our future.

reply to post by Biigs


A more accurate term describing human sociology might be "pack" mind instead of "hive mind".

In any case, memes are ascendant. In other words, an idea that is held collectively develops a life of it's own that has unique characteristics, existing and operating beyond the individual. Ironically, you can't stop it.

individual rights to free-will that intentionally separate one individual from the pack is a relatively new concept.

Did you hear the one about the first Libertarian?
Apparently one individual had an epiphany regarding personal rights, so he came to the camp fire of his tribe of hunter-gatherers and provided the explanation. The tribe listened intently and then the tribe leader summoned the man's mate and whispered something in her ear. She went to the man and led him aside. She said, sorry this isn't going to work. I'll be sleeping with chief rusty hook tonight. You have the choice to STFU and sleep with the dogs tonight or GTFO. He left with his principles to write his manifesto. He and his genetic code were never seen again.

reply to post by Biigs


We ARE a hive-mind and that is the problem. Can you do whatever you want without having others trying to control you? No.


We see in the news, if you be honest and close-minded you can lose your job. People can even freely express themselves on their own timr.

Acceptance is FORCED on everyone, disapprove and you are called close-minded and treated unfairly.


In fact, the whole monetary system is hivemind mentality, in freedom there would be no collective agreement for value (currency) , everyone would just be doing their own thing, freely inventing without interference freely living and eating and freely sharing (Not forced)

arpgme
reply to post by Biigs

 

We ARE a hive-mind and that is the problem. Can you do whatever you want without having others trying to control you? No.


We see in the news, if you be honest and close-minded you can lose your job. People can even freely express themselves on their own timr.

Acceptance is FORCED on everyone, disapprove and you are called close-minded and treated unfairly.


In fact, the whole monetary system is hivemind mentality, in freedom there would be no collective agreement for value (currency) , everyone would just be doing their own thing, freely inventing without interference freely living and eating and freely sharing (Not forced)

LOL, we are being brainwashed with a hive mentality, that doesnt mean we have a hive mentality.
We have a pack mentality. Thats not the same as a hive mind. If we had a hive mind there would be no need for politics as we would all agree, and nobody would own anything as it would belong to the hive, not an individual. If we had a hive mind there would be no money, as trade would be irrelevant and wouldnt exist at all.

Just the fact we have devout conservatives and devout socialists, disproves the hive mind.
Socialism is more akin to a hive mind, but it is simply an ideology.

InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by Biigs

 

A more accurate term describing human sociology might be "pack" mind instead of "hive mind".

In any case, memes are ascendant. In other words, an idea that is held collectively develops a life of it's own that has unique characteristics, existing and operating beyond the individual. Ironically, you can't stop it.

individual rights to free-will that intentionally separate one individual from the pack is a relatively new concept.

Did you hear the one about the first Libertarian?
Apparently one individual had an epiphany regarding personal rights, so he came to the camp fire of his tribe of hunter-gatherers and provided the explanation. The tribe listened intently and then the tribe leader summoned the man's mate and whispered something in her ear. She went to the man and led him aside. She said, sorry this isn't going to work. I'll be sleeping with chief rusty hook tonight. You have the choice to STFU and sleep with the dogs tonight or GTFO. He left with his principles to write his manifesto. He and his genetic code were never seen again.

An interesting soundbite of a story, but if there was no idea of freedom from oppression then we would never have devised the Magna Carta and the first bill of rights, and the founding fathers would never have devised the US constitution and US bill of rights.

I can think of a few examples of hive minds in our society that have gotten some very mixed reviews...