Davids adultery.

The bible claims that David committed adultery with a woman who was married to one of his soldiers. The bible also tells us that the punishment for adultery, according to Israelite law, was death for both parties, Yet, David and the woman dodged the death penalty. How? .......................................................................... 1) Were kings somehow exempt from this punishment? If so, where in the bible do we find such a stipulation?..........2)Was it that Israelite law was not in practice in Davids kingdom? Again, where does it say so?..........3) If Jesus is the ''son of David'',Then doesn't it make him the descendant of an adulterer? I would like answers to these questions. -........................................................................Not looking for abstract philosphies on David and his sin according to the bible, but rather, a to-the-point discussions based off the OP. Discuss.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The case never came to trial, because the episode was a secret between himself, God, Nathan the prophet, and the people who read 2 Samuel after he was dead.
(If it had come out, the matter would still not have been brought to trial without a revolution. The decision on high was evidently that hushing up the matter was the lesser of two evils).

Yes, it implies Jesus descended from an adulterer.
He undoubtedly had a physical descent from a large number of sinners, this being the normal state of the human race.
The point has no theological implications.
Nothing depends on the idea that Jesus had purity of ancestry.

@disraeli..... ''the episode was a secret between himself, God, Nathan the prophet, and...'' ..........................................................................Aren't MOST if not all adulteries a secret between God and the parties involved? If David gets to keep his sins a ''secret'', then it appears certain people were exempt from the brutal law that required the stoning of adulterers. Like I asked in question 1.... What part of the Bible speaks of an exemption for some people. Did God permit Israelite royalty to sin?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Not all adulteries are secret. Some of them get found out.
Crimes get punished when they are discovered by the people with power to enforce them.
It is against the law for you to murder your wife, but you will not get punished until somebody finds out that you've done it.
This crime was undiscovered, as far as the legal authorities were concerned.
That was the human reason why David was not punished.

As for God's reason, I have already suggested "lesser of two evils". It was important for God's purposes that David's reign should be allowed to continue.

We are in danger of mixing up two kinds of explanation; the historical explanation of the fact that David was not punished, and the theological explanation.
I began with the historical explanation, as in the first paragraph above.
I have suggested a possible theological explanation.

@ DISRAELI..... SO.... Why did God, who ordered the killing of adulterers, SPARE David and the woman.... Despite the fact that David committed adultery.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

As for God's reason, I have already suggested "lesser of two evils". It was important for God's purposes that David's reign should be allowed to continue.

sk0rpi0n
Not looking for abstract philosphies on David and his sin according to the bible, but rather, a to-the-point discussions based off the OP. Discuss.

edit on 9-11-2013 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

He also sent her husband Uriah into battle, knowing he would be killed. David first tried to send Uriah into his wife so he would sleep with her. He refused on the grounds that he would not be faithful to Israel.

1 Samuel 11

9 But Uriah slept at the door of the king’s house with all the servants of his lord, and did not go down to his house. 10 So when they told David, saying, “Uriah did not go down to his house,” David said to Uriah, “Did you not come from a journey? Why did you not go down to your house?”

11 And Uriah said to David, “The ark and Israel and Judah are dwelling in tents, and my lord Joab and the servants of my lord are encamped in the open fields. Shall I then go to my house to eat and drink, and to lie with my wife? As you live, and as your soul lives, I will not do this thing.”

---In other words, he was more faithful than David at this point.

14 In the morning it happened that David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it by the hand of Uriah. 15 And he wrote in the letter, saying, “Set Uriah in the forefront of the hottest battle, and retreat from him, that he may be struck down and die.” 16 So it was, while Joab besieged the city, that he assigned Uriah to a place where he knew there were valiant men. 17 Then the men of the city came out and fought with Joab. And some of the people of the servants of David fell; and Uriah the Hittite died also.

---After this, the Lord convicted David of the sin.

12 Then the Lord sent Nathan to David. And he came to him, and said to him: “There were two men in one city, one rich and the other poor. 2 The rich man had exceedingly many flocks and herds. 3 But the poor man had nothing, except one little ewe lamb which he had bought and nourished; and it grew up together with him and with his children. It ate of his own food and drank from his own cup and lay in his bosom; and it was like a daughter to him. 4 And a traveler came to the rich man, who refused to take from his own flock and from his own herd to prepare one for the wayfaring man who had come to him; but he took the poor man’s lamb and prepared it for the man who had come to him.”

5 So David’s anger was greatly aroused against the man, and he said to Nathan, “As the Lord lives, the man who has done this shall surely die! 6 And he shall restore fourfold for the lamb, because he did this thing and because he had no pity.”

7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the Lord God of Israel: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more! 9 Why have you despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in His sight? You have killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword; you have taken his wife to be your wife, and have killed him with the sword of the people of Ammon. 10 Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ 11 Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’”

13 So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.”

---The Lord's law was followed. As with any sin we commit, others suffer. In this case, the direct cause of the suffering of others was not just a result of David's disobedience. It was the Lord who moved the events into motion because of David's sin. Of course, we do not see this as a moral thing for the Lord to do. I would agree with this from outward appearance. I have always had trouble with 1 and 2 Samuel and even books like Judges. Read Judges 19 to the end as an example. There is nothing seemingly righteous about using the suffering of people to punish a King, yet this is what happens over and over again to Israel. America will suffer the choices of Obama. There is no doubt. Germany suffered under Hitler.

Why was this so and is there a reason that shows the Lord as a Just Lord of Israel? Actually, there is. Israel was under a covenant with God. They agreed to this covenant and law. God mirrored the King's to the nation. Why? Simple. the LORD desires to be the King of the people and Israel asked for a King from among men. The Lord resisted, but then yielded to the people. The result is always the same. God allow it, yet recommends a different course. In the end, we will see an end to this as Christ comes to reign as King. What will be the difference?

Christ is the Lord himself, sacrificing himself to give us what we desire. We desire a King among the Kinsman of Earth. Once we have tyranny from our own Kings that is unbearable, we will cry out for justice. The only way we can have both good leadership and justice in our land is to have the Lord preside over the Government. We cannot have corrupt men in this position. We have demonstrated this over and over again. Who is the Lord now that he has lived among us? Christ the Lord, our Kinsman Redeemer.

Isaiah 9

For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the greatness of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.

Take this to your own family. If you do hard drugs, will the income also be lost to your family? What do they suffer by the choice? If a father smokes and gets cancer, will the family suffer? If a father sleeps around with other women, gives a horrible STD to the mother, do the children suffer? Is this God's choice or the father's choice? What came of the events in David's life? His actions had a ripple effect into the kingdom below, just as the father's choices have ripple into the events that come from the choice. Did God cause the problem or did David destroy his own kingdom? Keep it straight. The Lord of the OT is not Elohim (Father) spoken of by Christ. The LORD is the Redeemer Himself.

---See this Thread: Son of God for Dummies.

Also, see this thread: Communication is the response you get...

These are a list of presuppositions we live with each day. Additionally, who is the LORD of the Old testament? Once you know the answer, you know why such choices were made and how they became the lesson of the Son of God. God is raising the Son by the choices he makes, just as we are parts of that Son of God doing the same below. Judge the Lord and you judge yourself. The LORD and Elohim (Father) are not the same thing. His choice and yours are the same.

David is a murderer and an adulterer and a liar. Jesus is a descendant of David so yes, Jesus is a descendant of a murdering adultering liar. (*murdering because he sent the husband of his lust into battle knowing he'd die).

But so what? I"m sure there are MANY murderers and adulterers and liars and thieves in Jesus ancestry. Same with Buddha. Same with Muhammad. Same with Gahndi. People sin. We aren't responsible for the sins of our ancestors. That's their burden to carry into eternity. Not ours.

As for God letting Jewish royalty get away with murder .... David confessed his sin and regretted it. He repented of it. So either God forgave him, or else God nailed him for it in the next life and we don't know about it yet.

*** IF the story is true.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


You may not get the answer if you do not read my entire post with provided links. Here is the ultimate answer to your question: God Calling: Communicatio is the response you get...

""People always make the best choice available to them at the time." The best choice available to you at the time is the one that you have learned from communication. If a better choice exists, then experience is the only way to learn the true response. Who is at fault when the best choice is not selected?

"If what you are doing isn't working, do anything else." You have heard it before: "A definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results."

Go back to the first presupposition: "The meaning of your communication is the response you get."

In physics, the strong nuclear force follows a law called invariant symmetry. This means that the strong force follows a law that does not change. Why? What response is God expecting from you / us? Again, is God's communication of His strength an indication that the communication is flawed? Or, could it be, the response we give is flawed? "

David was born again. So will you be born again. We ALL share from the ONE loaf of bread. We are each a slice. That one loaf is the Son of God (LORD) from the Old Testament. He is being raised. By this, so are you.

FlyersFan
David is a murderer and an adulterer and a liar. Jesus is a descendant of David so yes, Jesus is a descendant of a murdering adultering liar. (*murdering because he sent the husband of his lust into battle knowing he'd die).

But so what? I"m sure there are MANY murderers and adulterers and liars and thieves in Jesus ancestry. Same with Buddha. Same with Muhammad. Same with Gahndi. People sin. We aren't responsible for the sins of our ancestors. That's their burden to carry into eternity. Not ours.

As for God letting Jewish royalty get away with murder .... David confessed his sin and regretted it. He repented of it. So either God forgave him, or else God nailed him for it in the next life and we don't know about it yet.

*** IF the story is true.

You nailed it and so did God. The Cross is the answer to how Adam One made it to the Last Adam as Redeemer. Read the two posts on either side of your appropriate answer.

You said: "We aren't responsible for the sins of our ancestors. That's their burden to carry into eternity. Not ours."

If you must be born again and baptism is the mechanism, then Adam is our forefather and WE are the forefather's of Jesus. He is then our new Forefather. The cycle continues as we raise our children to then raise us. My Own Grandpa Thread

reply to post by DISRAELI

As for God's reason, I have already suggested "lesser of two evils".

I asked for a Bible scripture.
Is there one to substantiate your suggestion?

When did God ever say anything about "lesser of two evils", regarding David that is?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

You did NOT ask for a Bible scripture.
You only asked for a reason.
What we are trying to do is read God's mind on his reason for doing things.
In the absence of any Bible text on the subject we can only guess, and I've offered a plausible guess.
Have you got a better suggestion?

What is your agenda on this?
You are currently following the kind of argument which is normally offered by ATS atheists trying to prove that God is evil.
But the last thing I knew, you were not an atheist, so I don't quite see why you're aiming at that conclusion.

If you do believe in God, as I thought you did, you must presumably think he has reasons for doing things.
We cannot know his reasons if he does not say so, but I offered one possibility.
You are at liberty to suggest a better one.

sk0rpi0n
@ DISRAELI..... SO.... Why did God, who ordered the killing of adulterers, SPARE David and the woman.... Despite the fact that David committed adultery.

They were spared, but their child died. Always thought that was a bit unfair.
But then, I'm not a believer.

DISRAELI.... There is no agenda. Davids adultery is a curious case in the ot, given the strict laws against adultery. At best people can only guess as to why David and the woman were spared. There is no statement in the bible that suggests the law didn't apply to david on his sin, (which normally got others executed) So thats a big question mark.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

If you're just asking why David didn't get executed, we're back on the pragmatic historical reasons already discussed;
David did not get executed
1) because the legal authorities did not know about the crime. It was a secret matter which was not disclosed publically.
2) because nothing short of outright rebellion would have got the king into a criminal court.
Under those circumstances, how was David going to get executed? Who was going to do it?
Why do you need any other explanation than the pragmatic historical one?

if you dig a little further into the same period, there are other crimes which could have been investigated;
Amnon's rape of Tamar (nothing done, because the king's son was too powerful to be indicted)
Joab's killings of Abner and Amasa (nothing done, because, as David said himself, "the sons of Zeruiah are too hard for us"- that is, Joab was too powerful politically to be attacked even by the king himself).
It is a fact of life that many crimes, even in Old Testament history, escape being punished by the authorities for one reason or another.
This does not become a theological issue unless you want to slip into the old atheist "why does God allow evil?" argument.

Of course kings are exempt from the laws, they're the ones that make them.

Seriously though, if god knew David committed adultery, why didn't he strike him down on the spot or let others know of his adultery so that he would be punished as God's law dictated he should? I'm sure god could have had some passerby walk by and see them or something of that nature, but laws weren't made for kings I suppose.