The 144,000 revealed... and they aren't "Jews".

If anything in these scriptures are true- which I do not believe are- but if they were then they are irrelevant. These scriptures do nothing but stir up trouble among Christians. Everyone has their own interpretations of them, and many people have died because of their bickering. If God were real, and loving, then he would see this as an evil trap. There is completely irrelevant information that will cause nothing but grief. If he did feel it was necessary for all to know what his plan is going to be, if that is what you would call it, then why not just come right out and say it. It should say something like this,

"I am God and I will take exactly 144,000 humans (because it is my favorite number) and find them perfect so they can come hang out with me and get special privileges in heaven, like better parking, no waiting in lines, unlimited text messages, and a two week all expense paid trip to Sandals resort. For everyone else, you will just be in the lower projects of heaven and live off of a monthly supply of mana and obamaphones. Peace out."

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


Well, if you want the answer to this question then let's see what the Bible has to say on the subject. To figure out where the 144,000 come from you need to look back at the Genesis prophesies.

In Genesis it was foretold to Abraham that he would be the father of many nations and a multitude. As countless as the stars in the sky or the sand grains on a beach. And through that eventually all nations on the earth would be blessed. But if you at the prophesies of Genesis 48 and 49 what you are told is this. The tribes of Israel would eventually become nations. And the tribe of Ephraim would become a multitude of nations.

So essentially by the time of the end times most if not all the earth would belong to Israel. God has most or all the world to find his 144,000. And 11 of those tribes wouldn't be Jews.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


Don't know if the OP will actually read this but I would advise caution in your convictions. A whole new world can be created out of what we don't know about truthful history. The current Bible Gospels were assembled under the supervision of Emporer Constantine around 300 AD after he had a vision of the Cross. He, and his hand chosen affiliates discarded anything they deemed unnecessary out of the New Testament Gospels. Seriously, Jesus had 12 Disciples and only 4 wrote witness accounts to His life? Come on! Jesus did everything for a reason. There are published books "Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Thomas" etc that I do know of. These were TPTB of the day that did this. Not talking at all about the Translating of the Gospel into the KJV of the Holy Bible for those that may think I am.
And Dynamike, the Apostle Peter I read asked Jesus that very same question to my understanding. Knowledge is power, and sorrow.

I agree and disagree with the OP.

First, the 144,000 is not a symbolic number it represents a real hard number that doesn't move it is fixed.

Second, ONLY those that have accepted Jesus can be a part of it. This includes Jews and Gentiles from the first century onward.

Third, if you died before Jesus ransomed his life for humanity, you can't be a part of the 144,000, see John The Baptist as an example.

Forth, no Christian group had a lock on the 144,000 before 1919, which means the bulk of that number had already been filled by that time, perhaps as much as 90%. It gives a whole new meaning of if you are good you go to heaven, because of the millions of Christians that have lived and died, God could be picky and choose the best of the best. Which means there is extremely few left on the earth today, but they are here.

Fifth, the 144,000 are the only ones that go to heaven from among humanity.

Sixth, God is using these to help rule and restore mankind during Christ millennial reign.

Seventh, these people are so special to God that they are promoted to a rank higher than even angels.

Eight, this number includes men and women, descriptions that indicate otherwise are symbolic and represent spiritualistic purity from God's perspective.

Ninth, we cannot say with 100% certainty who has been/is specially chosen for this, but people from the first century that were already especially chosen, people like Mary, Jesus mother, and the Apostles and other bible writers of the New Testament would seem to have lock on one of these spots.

This is what my study of the book of Revelation and the bible has taught me.
And no I am not one of them.

OptimusSubprime
Contrarians, trolls, and all others who have nothing better to do than criticize please stop here. Everyone else, I welcome your thoughts and contributions!

Hello ATS! The book of Revelation has always been a very interesting topic. (...)

I think the best explanation to date of Book of Revelation is from Pastor Steven L Anderson
Each of the 22 chapter is explained in 1 hour video sermon each starting here:

I almost agreed with everything in his sermons, although I don't agree the Great Babylon is neither the Roman Catholic Church neither USA, but an Islam-core based new Universal Religion mixed with other religious views.

Also his explanation of the Woman with the 12 stars is blur, it is more than obvious that this woman is the virgin Mary specially in the last verse of the story (12,17) read:

"Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus."

Similar words Jesus used when being asked about his mother and brothers are outside there to see him and he said:

"My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice"

And also on the Crucifixion he said to the very same figure that wrote Revelation, John:
"He said to her, “Woman, here is your son,” and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home."

What is very difficult to swallow is that the Woman in the 12 chapter of Revelation is representing not only the believers of God/Jesus but also the virgin Mary herself.
According to this the virgin Mary has to be alive, not death.
A possible explanation is that the very DNA of the virgin was changed once Jesus conception, meaning she could live more years, just like the former DNA of antediluvian people.
It's completely logical that such a Divine intervention could not leave Mary flesh the same as she was.

For some people it could be difficult to understand that virgin Mary is still alive.
But it can be only explained that way.
Then the chapter make perfect sense.

Even this new data will not harm their believe in Christ, because she is only being protected by God from the Dragon during the tribulation period. It doesn't mention she as a Goddess, she isn't preaching during that time or she isn't inside any other typical "catholic" scenarios. She is just preserved, and then protected.

Q33323
Hold on here fellows. The Mormons think they will make up the 144k. The Jehovah Witnesses believe the same...
Sorry, but I needed a laugh, and math break [head still spinning].
Your anaysis, Rex282, was insightful. Thank you

It would make me "really" laugh if it wasn't so tragic that there are billions of people that believe this doomporn.All you have to do is mention things like 666 or 144 and everyone has a theory most of which are like bad B movie plots.I enjoy reading and watching fantasy books and movies however I stop way short of believing they are true or ever could be.

The OP got one thing right... 144 thousand is not referring to Jews simply because it is referring to Israel(not literal Israel).That is such an obvious misnomer to verify as an untruth it is "almost" amazing it has gone over billions of heads.The reality is 144 "thousand" has ZERO to do with a quantity of people especially "genetic Israelites" of any tribe ... that don't even exist anymore!

The real math is only for a sign.No calculating on the readers part necessary.There is no decoding or deciphering that unlocks the mystery... or any of that religious foolishness.What is amazing is the math has such perfection and ties into "everything'(especially the Fibonacci sequence and Phi and Pythagorean Theorem) it is impossible any of it is a "coincidence"...and that is only the "outside" math of numbers like 666 and 144, ....Yahoshuas name of 888 and 1480= 2368 ,Yahweh's name 543 etc etc...is the next level then it gets deeeeeeeeeep....all designed in a perfect unknowable infinite equation.

Fascinating interpretation. The Book of Revelations has always intrigued me and I always enjoy a good interpretation of the Book. Thanks for the read and something to definitely ponder. S&F!

Hillbilly123069
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

 

Don't know if the OP will actually read this but I would advise caution in your convictions. A whole new world can be created out of what we don't know about truthful history. The current Bible Gospels were assembled under the supervision of Emporer Constantine around 300 AD after he had a vision of the Cross. He, and his hand chosen affiliates discarded anything they deemed unnecessary out of the New Testament Gospels. Seriously, Jesus had 12 Disciples and only 4 wrote witness accounts to His life? Come on! Jesus did everything for a reason. There are published books "Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Thomas" etc that I do know of. These were TPTB of the day that did this. Not talking at all about the Translating of the Gospel into the KJV of the Holy Bible for those that may think I am.
And Dynamike, the Apostle Peter I read asked Jesus that very same question to my understanding. Knowledge is power, and sorrow.

edit on 13-11-2013 by Hillbilly123069 because: (no reason given)

I read it... you make some valid points, some of which I used to subscribe to. Having said that, God promised to preserve his Word and after many, many years of making many of the same arguments that you have made here, I have determined that we will never understand everything that God has done, does now, or will do in the future. If the Bible has been compromised by man that would make God a liar. Understand that when I say Bible I am talking about the KJV only. I consider all modern versions from the Alexandrian line of Greek text to be corrupt and tools that Satan uses to confuse Christians, and lead those astray who are lost but searching for Christ.

Isaiah 55:6-11 (KJV) I especially like verse 11

6 Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Really? The 144,000 are the ONLY ones of humanity that can go to Heaven?? What about this...

Revelation 7:9-17(KJV) * here is the other half of the chapter quoted in the OP

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

This is the RAPTURE

"no man could number" is a heck of a lot more than 144,000. Stop talking to Jehovah's Witnesses.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


A couple things to point out.

1) Virgin does not mean never having had sex, its biblical meaning is a person who never engaged in premarital sex, and never having had sex with anyone but their spouse.

The bible only sees sexual intercourse as a filthy dirty act (meaning of defile) when it is outside of marriage. Inside marriage it is not taught as causing any sort of defilement.

So, in the word virgin, you are looking for people who have never engaged in premarital sex and people who have never had sex with anyone but their spouse.

2) They cannot be dead or they wouldn't need to be sealed before the wrath, the sealing of them is to protect them from the harm coming to the inhabitants of the earth... if they were dead they wouldn't need protected from harm.

So, you are looking for 144 thousand from among mankind who have only had sex with their spouse and only then after they were married. Who are LIVING on earth at the time of the sealing.

Those living people you are quite correct are descendants from the land of Judah, not "Jews", and are those who follow the "Lamb" ...

Couple things jump out at me. The words "in" and "seal." I would think that the words on and in would not have been mixed up in translation.

"3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

So reading your quotes from the bible the translation makes me think of others idea that angels were in fact aliens, and the 144,000 getting some sort of information~ "written word" sealed, or implanted in their brains in preparation for somehow controlling the masses.

Don't really believe anything on this subject one way or another, but it jumped out at me when I read your post.

Are the 144,000 getting information sealed into their minds in some way so that they can be some sort of warrior or information sharer for an alien species that has a plan for our planet?

I would think that an almighty being would find more worth in the health of our planet than he would for such a small fraction of the total sum of souls that has existed on this planet. Why would he lay down such a nefarious plan if it were not in fact actually oriented towards relieving the ultimate stress that we put on the mother earth?

reply to post by Dynamike


This is before a lot of physical suffering happens. These people are not "perfect" but only more obedient than the rest of the human race. He found them obedient enough to make certain that these people not have to physically suffer like others will end up suffering.

This time of suffering, is like a huge spanking for most of mankind, its a wake-up call to people... those 144 thousand simply don't need the wake-up call, they got it right.

In foretelling of such a time, it was supposed to be saying you know, if you live right you wont have to suffer so much.. It should at the very least cause people to want to live right now... that way if it does happen in your life you are protected by your actions now...

It shouldn't cause war or disagreement, it should cause people to say hey, I want to be one of those people... so I am going to work on it now...

For God's people, it does not matter if all these things happen today, or a million years from now... because they love God, and strive in His will all their life, they are prepared at any moment....they already know God. It matters not when these things happen to them.

Writings like this should cause most to strive for the same.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime


That depends if you think that group is on the earth or in heaven, they physically survive something called the "Great Tribulation", doesn't sound like they have been "raptured" away too me.

This goes to another issue are there righteous humans on the earth right after Armageddon ?
My studies of the bible tell me yes.
In fact verse 17 says

 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”

Does this sound like he is talking about angels or humans, angels don't have physical eyeballs to cry.

Earthly survivors is what no man can number, or an unknown number that is a decent size into the millions, my guess right now is maybe around 20 million. Sadly most humans alive on judgement day will go into non-existence. The good news is anybody who dies before judgement day gets a pass that is to say they will be back in the general resurrection of the good and bad. And bad people certainly don't qualify for heaven anyways so, it must be back to the earth. And they need to change at a pretty fast rate or they won't be around either anymore, there are some interesting verses in Isaiah on this.

reply to post by AriesJedi


I was reading your reply about the 144,000 and all I can say is that these have witnessed their task upon this earth from before birth and in essence have awaited the torments and lived a life time of hardships and suffering to prepare. You are right when you say that if people only knew they would never wish to be one of the 144,000. The number is a mystery it is not actually 144,000 but has to do with our genes/DNA.

That doesn't mean they have their full memory but some do. Some have also been given a refresher dream but their will be an emptiness prior that will have to be surpassed. There will be an emptiness that must be put through the fiery furnace perhaps because there is a mystery connected to all of this. It is DNA and yes cast by a so called lottery but when the time comes it will still catch all by surprise. The enemy has been trying to kill and destroy them with much effort and will not stop.

Suffering follows the 144,000 but also great joys and special experiences. These bear fruit of two worlds if nor more combined in experience, call it paranormal, supernatural but there is always 'other', they have been born in a uniqueness that also is DNA related.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime

Looking at verse 4 we see that the 144,000 are males, virgins, and followers of Christ. Now I will challenge you... go find on this Earth today, 144,000 male virgin Jews who follow Christ. Go ahead, I'll wait.

When the bible says virgin here, they are talking about kept themselves free from sin, not as in sexually pure. Having sex with a married partner is not looked upon in a bad light via above. Man makes it look bad for some odd reason.

a reply to: rickymouse

The number 144,000 was considered a special number by a lot of religions of the time. I haven't figured why a hundred gross would be so important a number.

There were 144,000 polished, limestone outer casing stones on the great pyramid...connected?

Who knows...perhaps it was a code, a frequency, a harmonic?

But it seems to be an important number, written down in important documents, encoded into important structures and so on...for some obviously important, perhaps crucial reason, probably totally different to what we as Humans have so far realised or guessed at.