Should Religious People Be Held Responsible?

reply to post by akushla99


I'm not sure what subtle division you are referring to. If you mean that when asked to explain our faith the short and simple explanation is that we believe there is a God that He came to us as Christ, His son, and through belief in Him, we all may find salvation, this sets up a division because the obvious conclusion is that if you do not believe then you must be bound elsewhere because we are a religion of forgiveness and salvation through belief and not works. I'm sorry; can't help it. That is the core of the faith. I didn't make it.

I can see how it sets up a division, but if you choose to believe otherwise then it shouldn't bother you, you believe otherwise. I sat through I don't know many units on Greco-Roman belief in high school and college and never felt threatened by it. I dated an Israeli for short time in college and never felt threatened by his beliefs, either, although they were certainly different than mine.

I've hung out with Wiccans and New Age folks and atheists and agnostics. They all choose what they believe in life. It was never a threat, and I never talk much about what I believe unless the subject comes up somehow. I don't try to save souls.

Here of course, we are being invited to talk about it. So this is different.

DelayedChristmas
reply to post by akushla99

 

Fruits of their action?
Wolves in sheep's clothing?
Goats?

Or is it the man who didn't think about how much would a tower costs...

and obviously the disciples didn't bounce or else they would be named "The Beatitudes."

edit on 8-11-2013 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)

Words, friend...are NOT action...they produce no fruit, just more words...Such are labyrinths of the mind...
'Wolves'...you'd need to be pretty sure you knew, what a real wolf was...
Goats?...aminals, and so cute too...

Here's a problem...Babelite thought is labyrinthian, the more you think, the more neural pathways are created for you to wander into (or get lost in - staring up at the ceiling of the cavern and letting the pathway 'in', crumble behind you...the only way 'out' is to create new pathways)...

Towers need to be built on solid foundations, unless theyre built on air...regardless of the price of the materials...

...a good name for a band, The Beatitudes...

Å99

I'm sorry if I ruffled some feathers but I have found it better not to put words in peoples mouth and expect them to agree with you.

also to add I really resent being marginalized as a "you people"

You people who have decided we are all awful people will still be awful about it.

That is a patently false statement and I'm holding you responsible....

ketsuko
reply to post by akushla99

 

I'm not sure what subtle division you are referring to. If you mean that when asked to explain our faith the short and simple explanation is that we believe there is a God that He came to us as Christ, His son, and through belief in Him, we all may find salvation, this sets up a division because the obvious conclusion is that if you do not believe then you must be bound elsewhere because we are a religion of forgiveness and salvation through belief and not works. I'm sorry; can't help it. That is the core of the faith. I didn't make it.

I can see how it sets up a division, but if you choose to believe otherwise then it shouldn't bother you, you believe otherwise. I sat through I don't know many units on Greco-Roman belief in high school and college and never felt threatened by it. I dated an Israeli for short time in college and never felt threatened by his beliefs, either, although they were certainly different than mine.

I've hung out with Wiccans and New Age folks and atheists and agnostics. They all choose what they believe in life. It was never a threat, and I never talk much about what I believe unless the subject comes up somehow. I don't try to save souls.

Here of course, we are being invited to talk about it. So this is different.

Should religious people be held responsible for the feelings of the non-religious?

No, they shouldn't...and neither should the non-religious be held responsible for the feelings of the religious...unless the religious want to blather on about how satans little tricks are working on you...then bets are off...

A very clever question

Å99

That was my original answer to the Core question...do you see a problem with it?
...added in later response was the qualification, that not all christians are militarily 'suited', and don't pull these little 'oh me! Did I just do that?' stunts...been experiencing it for 40 years...

Å99

reply to post by ketsuko


Yeah,what ketsuko said.

reply to post by ketsuko


I'm not sure what subtle division you are referring to. If you mean that when asked to explain our faith the short and simple explanation is that we believe there is a God that He came to us as Christ, His son, and through belief in Him, we all may find salvation, this sets up a division because the obvious conclusion is that if you do not believe then you must be bound elsewhere because we are a religion of forgiveness and salvation through belief and not works. I'm sorry; can't help it. That is the core of the faith. I didn't make it.

...and in 'not making it' the responsibility is not 'owned' for what it is...that's the essence of the OP question...

Moderate, 'mind my own business - but follow my faiths' teachings' are not what we're talking about here...

Å99

reply to post by akushla99


So, then it's my fault that I believe in salvation through belief?

And then, of course, that makes me an awful person. How neat for you.

What I said is true. I did not make the faith. Of course, I do have faith that it is essentially correct. That there is a God and that He holds us accountable and asks for our belief as the means to salvation. That belief is more important in the end than any number of good works we may do here on Earth although those are important, too.

Lacking belief we are simply one of another pack of animals. What possible purpose is there to love your neighbor as yourself? He is your competitor in life and will only take resources needed for survival away from you and yours. What reason is there to treat others as you would be treated or any of the other moral niceties?

And so we will always be separated because I prefer to believe that there is more than simply proving how "good" I can be through my actions. Life is not a popularity contest to prove how much "gooder" than thou I can be. There are some pretty spiteful contests that take place in that arena, too, you know. Rather it is a time to reflect and prepare for what will come after, and if you find your way, all the rest, including good works, will follow.

reply to post by ketsuko


I can be bad all by myself, as Medea says.

But I can only be as good as what I can be used for. I don't make me good, and even if I do good, it may be thought of as bad to others.

For instance, I can overdraw my bank account to buy groceries, bad for me, good for the bank. But good for me because I can eat tomorrow, bad in that I have to pay it back with charges.

No matter how good one can be, it is never good enough. Someone is always better, but why should I try to be better than them? I can only be as good as I can be. God knows my strength and weaknesses already.

Sometimes though, we have to choose the lesser of two evils, caught between a rock and hard place, and out of the frying pan into the fire. Life is like that and if we live in fear, we will never learn what could be a reward.

ketsuko
reply to post by akushla99

 

So, then it's my fault that I believe in salvation through belief?

And then, of course, that makes me an awful person. How neat for you.

What I said is true. I did not make the faith. Of course, I do have faith that it is essentially correct. That there is a God and that He holds us accountable and asks for our belief as the means to salvation. That belief is more important in the end than any number of good works we may do here on Earth although those are important, too.

Lacking belief we are simply one of another pack of animals. What possible purpose is there to love your neighbor as yourself? He is your competitor in life and will only take resources needed for survival away from you and yours. What reason is there to treat others as you would be treated or any of the other moral niceties?

And so we will always be separated because I prefer to believe that there is more than simply proving how "good" I can be through my actions. Life is not a popularity contest to prove how much "gooder" than thou I can be. There are some pretty spiteful contests that take place in that arena, too, you know. Rather it is a time to reflect and prepare for what will come after, and if you find your way, all the rest, including good works, will follow.

How neat is it, that you could attribute your interpretation of what I said to say...'How neat for you'...

What we believe is personal, individual and subjective...if this were not true, Christianity, as a body would be unambiguous and clear...it...is...not...

On the venn of belief, a belief in God or not, does not excuse you from your actions...whichever way you want to spin it...athiest or not...because the belief of 72 virgins is as flawed as the belief in salvation from a predicament you did not choose (or did you?...in some self-imposed sado-masochistic drama)...if you believe it, go for it...

I agree completely with the thrust of your last paragraph.

Å99

WarminIndy
wildtimes, how could you miss this one?

Beavers
reply to post by wildtimes

I don't care if its true or not (not that you have any proof either way).

I don't care if it's true or not????

Did a Christian just say that?

Is this person a Christian?

Dude, you should care whether it is true or not. You might be worshiping the Devil for all you know. OK, mind boggled today, what a way to wake up from a nap.

What a strange thing I just read, a Christian who doesn't care whether or not it is true.....

How do you know I'm not a Jew?? Or a Muslim or a Bhuddist? Are you anti all religion or just xianity?

Regardless, my lack of apethy is simple.

My faith hurts no one and brings me much comfort. Other than me potentily being wrong (big deal) I can't see a negative aspect to it.

If I'm wrong, I'll just die and never know any difference. if I'm right, flippin' bonus.

What's to care about?

reply to post by Beavers


Whatever you are, then it better be right, otherwise you have false hope and giving false hope to others. That's cruel to give people false hope.

And no, I am not anti-religion, I am anti-ignorance. And if you don't know, then why should I listen to you?

And if you don't care, then why should I?

But since you don't care, then obviously you have no religion, just an imagination that you might change tomorrow. But what hope did you offer today? You didn't offer me hope, so I suppose it can only work for you, and it might not be working for you, you just don't know.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Well put.

I think, Bro Wrabbit,

that you know as well as I do

that there's a knot of dyed in the wool TRUE BELIEVERS extremely hostile to Christianity at the flick of an eyelash hereon.

They post threads with outrageously baiting and harshly provocative titles and then rant with utmost haughty indignation when Christians dare to go on such threads to defend themselves and their beliefs.

Such hostile and displeasurable characters also rant endlessly about being SCIENTIFIC

yet, they UTTERLY FAIL to have the SCIENTIFIC integrity to

DISTINGUISH between INTRINSIC CHRISTIANS VS EXTRINSIC CHRISTIANS PER THE SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE.

They UTTERLY FAIL to note that it is the EXTRINSIC CHRISTIANS IN STUDY AFTER STUDY who have been/are guilty, as a group, of the deplorable evils

that the VERY UNSCIENTIFIC hostile naysayers blame on all Christianity--including the INTRINSICS.

What a stinking pile of absurdity and wholesale lack of scientific or any other kind of intellectual or personal integrity.

Their blame throwing rants also demonstrate chronically a wholesale lack of personal or group insight into the junk of their own religion of science cohorts, much less, of themselves personally.

And, they UTTERLY FAIL to "get it" in terms of the FACT that their hostile labeling, marginalizing of Christianity mentality is lock stock and barrel VERY AKIN to the beginnings of Hitler's treatment of the Jews.

In some respects, I grieve for them. They not only appear to have sold their souls to the devil, but their minds and wills, too.

Certainly, they are among the most negative and off-putting aspects of ATS.

Sometimes, they seem to have the persistent capacity to make merely reading the RECENT THREADS listing a very off-putting and hostile-to-Christian-readers experience.

At least, the mgmt has clipped their wings slightly. They seem to have to pretend to be civil a lot more than they used to. Nevertheless, they also STILL get away with far more personal and personhood assaults than any other value orientation on ATS or on the web, in my experience.

And they seem to exalt in such nastiness as though it were entirely justified because ALL Christians are so inherently evil in their omniscient views. Seesh what arrogance.

Sigh.

/rant
.

borntowatch

livinglifeseekingtruth2


It is a sad fact that some are born broken... the above, and possibly you.... are a perfect example.
Just a bunch of dying butterflies looking for a safe place to land while plotting and hurting others in their death spiral.

Hmmmm.... Their is a difference between the three... Those born with a moral compass, those seeking a direction in life, and a few born with absolutely nothing. Those born with nothing go on to hurt others in an attempt to feel... something they are lacking. I can't imagine how it must be like to lack the ability to feel empathy. But you might.... I feel sorry for you... you might have been born with messed up neurons.

Well I believe everyone was born broken
Me a possible example? aint no possibilities at all, its a fact.

Butterflies aside, some have a disease thats stops them empathising, some grow up without learning empathy and some are so broken by the world that they become overly empathetic to all, at their own detriment.
Some just try hard to show love, sadly as the nature of the world is broken, so is the love.

"There is no moral compass when opportunity arises, it human nature."

In a way you are right... Bee's have been taken advantage of since the discovery of their tasty treat of regurgitated tasty wonder.

Are you a vegan? I just need to understand your point of view here.

I am a conservationist, plant lover, animal lover and was born with a moral compass.

But I am not an Extremist...

I Hunt, Fish and Farm...

I get life... do you?

reply to post by livinglifeseekingtruth2


I always mess this stuff up.. guess I am old or something. But my Personal reply to borntowatch is actually this...
Kids these days seem to get confused if they don't have colors and stuff to distinguish stuff....

In a way you are right... Bee's have been taken advantage of since the discovery of their tasty treat of regurgitated tasty wonder.

reply to post by BO XIAN


WOW!

Can you focus and "Rant" something that makes some sense next time?

reply to post by livinglifeseekingtruth2


That would depend on perspective and definitions.

Perhaps not, in many cases.

My rants are only for those

with eyes to see and ears to hear.

Others should scroll on by in their myopic obliviousness.

reply to post by livinglifeseekingtruth2


Maybe I can translate. Sometimes I just make it worse but I'll try to make it better:

that there's a knot of dyed in the wool TRUE BELIEVERS extremely hostile to Christianity at the flick of an eyelash hereon.

A LOT of Eric Hoffer type "True Believers" hostile to Christianity for any excuse pontificate a lot hereon.

I don't know how to make that more clear or more simple.


They post threads with outrageously baiting and harshly provocative titles and then rant with utmost haughty indignation when Christians dare to go on such threads to defend themselves and their beliefs.

Don't know how to make that simpler. Those hostile to Christianity & Christians chronically rant and attack whenever and wherever Christians and their perspective appear on ATS

Such hostile and displeasurable characters also rant endlessly about being SCIENTIFIC

Don't know how to make that clearer

yet, they UTTERLY FAIL to have the SCIENTIFIC integrity to

DISTINGUISH between INTRINSIC CHRISTIANS VS EXTRINSIC CHRISTIANS PER THE SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE.

This is not that hard to understand.

1. CHRISTIANS [and virtually all other belief orientations] can be divided into 2 basic camps.

A) Those who TAKE ON the belief system, ideas, philosophy, dogma etc. as a kind of COAT to parade about in for social, business, whatever EXTRINSIC REASONS. The belief system is NOT REALLY PART OF THEIR HEART REALITY LIVED-OUT FROM THEIR HEART (INTERNALLY, INTRINSICALLY) OUTWARDS.

B) Those who OWN the beliefs as authentic reality and endeavor however imperfectly to WALK OUT those beliefs in practical, real, tangible, congruent, authentic ways day in and day out--OUT OF A NATURAL OUTFLOW--FROM THEIR HEART OUTWARD--of their sincerely held beliefs that they genuinely own as their own, real true foundation.


They UTTERLY FAIL to note that it is the EXTRINSIC CHRISTIANS IN STUDY AFTER STUDY who have been/are guilty, as a group, of the deplorable evils

This is not that hard to understand.

The Chronically-Reflexively-Hostile-to-Christians on ATS persistently DO NOT DISTINGUISH between INTRINSIC CHRISTIANS VS EXTRINSIC CHRISTIANS.

That's not only dumb, stupid, inaccurate . . . it's dishonest to reality.

It is the same as saying that

--the one in 10 million honest politicos is identical to all the dishonest politicos;
--the one in a thousand innocents in prison is identical to all the dishonest prisoners;

--the XX in whatever percentage of welfare cheats is identical to all the desperate honest single parents genuinely needing welfare;

--the fracking caused quakes are identical to the non-fracking caused quakes;

--the idiots who jump off buildings with feathers glued to their arms are identical to those who prefer to fly in airplanes;

--religious shysters are identical to the authentic versions--the Mother Theresa's, Curry Blake's and St Francis type folks;

--the cruel disordered folks who torture kittens to death are identical to the vegans who refuse to eat meat to avoid being cruel to animals . . .

etc.


that the VERY UNSCIENTIFIC hostile naysayers blame on all Christianity--including the INTRINSICS.

It's NOT SCIENTIFIC to label opposites as identical, the same.

Yet, THOSE ON ATS who RANT THE MOST about VERIFIABLE SCIENTIFIC FACTS

IGNORE THE FACTS about INTRINSIC VS EXTRINSIC Christianity ALL THE TIME.

I have yet to see a single one of them make the SOLID SCIENTIFIC DISTINCTION BETWEEN EXTRINSIC PSEUDO-CHRISTIANITY VS INTRINSIC, AUTHENTIC CHRISTIANITY. Some will note slightly in passing that Christians make a similar distinction between "real Christians" vs phony Christians. But they don't seem to really articulate what I'm talking about and they don't seem to have a whiff of an understanding of the very real distinction and the FACTS related thereto. They pass off such talk as disingenuous, false, shallow, inconsequential etc.

THAT'S SCIENTIFICALLY DISHONEST, UNTRUE, INACCURATE.

I don't know how to make that clearer.


What a stinking pile of absurdity and wholesale lack of scientific or any other kind of intellectual or personal integrity.

I don't know how to make that clearer

Their blame-throwing rants also demonstrate chronically a wholesale lack of personal or group insight into the junk of their own religion of science cohorts, much less, of themselves personally.

Their rants utterly fail to demonstrate any significant insight into the inconsistencies of their own perspectives

And, they UTTERLY FAIL to "get it" in terms of the FACT that their hostile labeling, marginalizing of Christianity mentality is lock stock and barrel VERY AKIN to the beginnings of Hitler's treatment of the Jews.

Their hostile labeling and marginalizing--seeking to remove Christianity and Christian perspectives from the public square and public discourse--is essentially IDENTICAL to what Hitler did with the Jews in the earlier stages. They seem to totally fail to have the least bit of understanding or insight into THAT FACT. I don't know how to make that clearer.
.


In some respects, I grieve for them. They not only appear to have sold their souls to the devil, but their minds and wills, too.

.

I don't know how to make that clearer.

.

Certainly, they are among the most negative and off-putting aspects of ATS.
.


I don't know how to make that clearer. Their habits and chronically T&C violating posts hereon are outrageous. It takes a ton of gracious and tough minded tenacity and courage to bother reading their trash, much less replying sensibly and within the T&C.

Sometimes, they seem to have the persistent capacity to make merely reading the RECENT THREADS listing a very off-putting and hostile-to-Christian-readers experience.

Given the almost constant posting of threads with outrageously Christian-bating titles--simply reading the list of titles in the RECENT listing is an insulting affront to many, if not most authentic Christians. I don't know how to make that clearer.

At least, the mgmt has clipped their wings slightly. They seem to have to pretend to be civil a lot more than they used to. Nevertheless, they also STILL get away with far more personal and personhood assaults than any other value orientation on ATS or on the web, in my experience.

And they seem to exalt in such nastiness as though it were entirely justified because ALL Christians are so inherently evil in their omniscient views. Seesh what UNSCIENTIFIC arrogance.

Sigh.

= = = =

Enough. If you can't or won't understand the above at this point, I doubt that you are trying or want to.

.

BO XIAN
reply to post by livinglifeseekingtruth2

 

Maybe I can translate. Sometimes I just make it worse but I'll try to make it better:

that there's a knot of dyed in the wool TRUE BELIEVERS extremely hostile to Christianity at the flick of an eyelash hereon.

A LOT of Eric Hoffer type "True Believers" hostile to Christianity for any excuse pontificate a lot hereon.

I don't know how to make that more clear or more simple.


They post threads with outrageously baiting and harshly provocative titles and then rant with utmost haughty indignation when Christians dare to go on such threads to defend themselves and their beliefs.

Don't know how to make that simpler. Those hostile to Christianity & Christians chronically rant and attack whenever and wherever Christians and their perspective appear on ATS

Such hostile and displeasurable characters also rant endlessly about being SCIENTIFIC

Don't know how to make that clearer

yet, they UTTERLY FAIL to have the SCIENTIFIC integrity to

DISTINGUISH between INTRINSIC CHRISTIANS VS EXTRINSIC CHRISTIANS PER THE SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE.

This is not that hard to understand.

1. CHRISTIANS [and virtually all other belief orientations] can be divided into 2 basic camps.

A) Those who TAKE ON the belief system, ideas, philosophy, dogma etc. as a kind of COAT to parade about in for social, business, whatever EXTRINSIC REASONS. The belief system is NOT REALLY PART OF THEIR HEART REALITY LIVED-OUT FROM THEIR HEART (INTERNALLY, INTRINSICALLY) OUTWARDS.

B) Those who OWN the beliefs as authentic reality and endeavor however imperfectly to WALK OUT those beliefs in practical, real, tangible, congruent, authentic ways day in and day out--OUT OF A NATURAL OUTFLOW--FROM THEIR HEART OUTWARD--of their sincerely held beliefs that they genuinely own as their own, real true foundation.


They UTTERLY FAIL to note that it is the EXTRINSIC CHRISTIANS IN STUDY AFTER STUDY who have been/are guilty, as a group, of the deplorable evils

This is not that hard to understand.

The Chronically-Reflexively-Hostile-to-Christians on ATS persistently DO NOT DISTINGUISH between INTRINSIC CHRISTIANS VS EXTRINSIC CHRISTIANS.

That's not only dumb, stupid, inaccurate . . . it's dishonest to reality.

It is the same as saying that

--the one in 10 million honest politicos is identical to all the dishonest politicos;
--the one in a thousand innocents in prison is identical to all the dishonest prisoners;

--the XX in whatever percentage of welfare cheats is identical to all the desperate honest single parents genuinely needing welfare;

--the fracking caused quakes are identical to the non-fracking caused quakes;

--the idiots who jump off buildings with feathers glued to their arms are identical to those who prefer to fly in airplanes;

--religious shysters are identical to the authentic versions--the Mother Theresa's, Curry Blake's and St Francis type folks;

--the cruel disordered folks who torture kittens to death are identical to the vegans who refuse to eat meat to avoid being cruel to animals . . .

etc.


that the VERY UNSCIENTIFIC hostile naysayers blame on all Christianity--including the INTRINSICS.

It's NOT SCIENTIFIC to label opposites as identical, the same.

Yet, THOSE ON ATS who RANT THE MOST about VERIFIABLE SCIENTIFIC FACTS

IGNORE THE FACTS about INTRINSIC VS EXTRINSIC Christianity ALL THE TIME.

I have yet to see a single one of them make the SOLID SCIENTIFIC DISTINCTION BETWEEN EXTRINSIC PSEUDO-CHRISTIANITY VS INTRINSIC, AUTHENTIC CHRISTIANITY. Some will note slightly in passing that Christians make a similar distinction between "real Christians" vs phony Christians. But they don't seem to really articulate what I'm talking about and they don't seem to have a whiff of an understanding of the very real distinction and the FACTS related thereto. They pass off such talk as disingenuous, false, shallow, inconsequential etc.

THAT'S SCIENTIFICALLY DISHONEST, UNTRUE, INACCURATE.

I don't know how to make that clearer.


What a stinking pile of absurdity and wholesale lack of scientific or any other kind of intellectual or personal integrity.

I don't know how to make that clearer

Their blame-throwing rants also demonstrate chronically a wholesale lack of personal or group insight into the junk of their own religion of science cohorts, much less, of themselves personally.

[color]Teal]Their rants utterly fail to demonstrate any significant insight into the inconsistencies of their own perspectives

And, they UTTERLY FAIL to "get it" in terms of the FACT that their hostile labeling, marginalizing of Christianity mentality is lock stock and barrel VERY AKIN to the beginnings of Hitler's treatment of the Jews.

Their hostile labeling and marginalizing--seeking to remove Christianity and Christian perspectives from the public square and public discourse--is essentially IDENTICAL to what Hitler did with the Jews in the earlier stages. They seem to totally fail to have the least bit of understanding or insight into THAT FACT. I don't know how to make that clearer.

In some respects, I grieve for them. They not only appear to have sold their souls to the devil, but their minds and wills, too.

I don't know how to make that clearer.

Certainly, they are among the most negative and off-putting aspects of ATS.

I don't know how to make that clearer. Their habits and chronically T&C violating posts hereon are outrageous. It takes a ton of gracious and tough minded tenacity and courage to bother reading their trash, much less replying sensibly and within the T&C.

Sometimes, they seem to have the persistent capacity to make merely reading the RECENT THREADS listing a very off-putting and hostile-to-Christian-readers experience.

Given the almost constant posting of threads with outrageously Christian-bating titles--simply reading the list of titles in the RECENT listing is an insulting affront to many, if not most authentic Christians. I don't know how to make that clearer.

At least, the mgmt has clipped their wings slightly. They seem to have to pretend to be civil a lot more than they used to. Nevertheless, they also STILL get away with far more personal and personhood assaults than any other value orientation on ATS or on the web, in my experience.

And they seem to exalt in such nastiness as though it were entirely justified because ALL Christians are so inherently evil in their omniscient views. Seesh what UNSCIENTIFIC arrogance.

Sigh.

= = = =

Enough. If you can't or won't understand the above at this point, I doubt that you are trying or want to.

I think you need a holiday...

Å99

WarminIndy
reply to post by Beavers

 

Whatever you are, then it better be right, otherwise you have false hope and giving false hope to others. That's cruel to give people false hope.

And no, I am not anti-religion, I am anti-ignorance. And if you don't know, then why should I listen to you?

And if you don't care, then why should I?

But since you don't care, then obviously you have no religion, just an imagination that you might change tomorrow. But what hope did you offer today? You didn't offer me hope, so I suppose it can only work for you, and it might not be working for you, you just don't know.

I'm not giving false hope to anyone. Other than being forced to defend my faith against attacks from fanatical-atheists like you, my faith and hope is private and doesn't effect you or anyone else in any way shape or form.

And if you're anti-ignorance, you must have a lot of evidence that proves there definitely isn't an afterlife or a creator. Care to share any of it?

reply to post by paleorchid13


“An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do now to be sure that no such God exists. To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed.” - Carl Sagan