Is it OKAY to take aderall/vyvanse? Personal opinions wanted.

Good morning ATS.


Soooo let me begin by saying that I am a normal human being and I constantly debate to myself about the validity of ADD/ADHD existing. Mostly because there are some humans that are super disorganized and can't get their crap together, and some that have more (sometimes way more) ability to do the complete opposite. They are always functional and know exactly what they're doing when you ask. So to me, being disorganized, messy, sometimes insecure, and sometimes over the top hyper - is a trait of your personality. No drug on this planet is going to help you. And if it does, you're probably not you by time you get off the drug.

Which makes taking adderall/vyvanse/ritalin completely pointless. Afterall, who wants to become emotionally and physically dependent on a stimulate their entire life just to cope.

That sounds terrible.

With that being said, I'm debating on taking said drug of choice. Why? Because according to the doctor I have this ever so popular ADHD.

BUT I don't believe in this disease. So what exactly do I feel with the idea of taking amphetamines? Guilt.
Loads and loads of it. Let me tell you why:

The first few days of being on amphetamines are pretty great. You focus more on the things you care about, you have time to do the things you want to do because you shove all the unnecessary overwhelming thoughts you normally have out of your head, and your sociably less awkward. (And that lasts ones a doozy for alot of awkward people out there). And if you're in school, this is almost like heaven on Earth when it comes to studying for an exam.

And then it's like one day, weeks later, you wake up and say to yourself "Where has the time gone?". Because you've been on this kick for so long that, you yourself have almost withered away completely. The drug makes you feel like a higher enlightened you, without the you part being involved. You memory is shorter, you enjoyed other things less, and then suddenly - you don't like taking the drug anymore.

I felt that after a few months, I had lost my creativity. I stopped doodling on my papers in class, and my short stories I would write for fun kept hitting brick walls because my creative motoring function seemed to have been shut down. Unwillingly. (Which wouldn't seem to be a big deal to most, but if it's apart of what makes you You, then that should be a big deal.)

Then the guilt rolls in, because I would feel as if I had been hiding from myself and taking the easy way out by consuming these legalized, over diagnosed, stimulate drugs.

PLUS studies have even shown that taking the drug only makes you think you are smarter than you really are:

The research team tested 47 subjects, all in their twenties, all without a diagnosis of ADHD, on a variety of cognitive functions, from working memory — how much information they could keep in mind and manipulate — to raw intelligence, to memories for specific events and faces. Each subject was tested both while on Adderall and on a placebo; in each condition, the subjects didn’t know which kind of pill they were receiving.

The researchers did come up with one significant finding. The last question they asked their subjects was: “How and how much did the pill influence your performance on today’s tests?” Those subjects who had been given Adderall were significantly more likely to report that the pill had caused them to do a better job on the tasks they’d been given, even though their performance did not show an improvement over that of those who had taken the placebo.



Read more: healthland.time.com...

Even though that study is based off of students not diagnosed with ADHD/ADD, doesn't mean that you can exclude them.

The Wall Street Journal says in it's article Mind Games:

An estimated 8% of U.S. children have ADHD, which is also known as ADD, for attention-deficit disorder, and some 50% of them outgrow it, according to government data. About 4.4% of U.S. adults—some 10 million people—also have ADHD and less than one-quarter of them are aware of it.

That's because while ADHD always starts in childhood, according to official diagnostic criteria, many adults with the disorder went unnoticed when they were young. And it's only been since the 1980s that therapists even recognized the disorder could persist in adults.

Even now, getting an accurate diagnosis is tricky. Some experts think that too many adults—and children—are being put on medications for ADHD, often by doctors with little experience with the disorder. Others think that many more people could benefit from ADHD drugs and behavioral therapy.

Link here.

Not to mention there are not enough studies that have shown the long term affects these drugs have on a brain after years and years of use.

Long-Term Effects of Adderall

Using Adderall over an extended period can increase the risk of critical cardiovascular problems and strokes. There are also significant mental health issues associated with the long-term use of Adderall, such as depression, hostility and paranoia. In children, protracted use of Adderall may inhibit growth.

Adderall Dependence

Dependence on Adderall can be either psychological or physical.

Psychological dependence occurs when a person takes Adderall as part of a routine and using the drug becomes a subconscious habit. A person with a psychological dependence on Adderall may exhibit the physical effects of stress, such as headaches and sweat, if they are denied access to the drug when they believe that they need it. As its name implies, psychological dependence may be addressed by using psychological techniques to persuade the user to change his or her pattern of behavior.

Physical dependence occurs when a user becomes accustomed to the presence of high levels of dopamine in the brain so that stopping the use of Adderall causes dopamine levels to drop suddenly, triggering withdrawal symptoms such as depression, tiredness and either sleeping for extended periods or being unable to sleep at all.

Link here.

Which only adds to my guilt.

SO ATS, I'm asking you what your personal opinions are on these drugs. Do you believe in ADHD/ADD, is it a fairy tale parents tell their children to get them to shut up and sit down? An excuse for adults like me to be lazy and rely on these types of drugs? Or is it a growing widespread epidemic here in America that needs to be looked at and examined more closely? Like what causes us to act this way, can we blame ADHD on our growing use/dependence on technology aka; smart phones, tablets, laptops, e-readers...

What are your thoughts?



Conmi27

** Links were used to give you statistics and basic understandings of the topics pertaining to the drug.

reply to post by ConMi27


I have no qualification to advise you about taking a drug or avoiding it , BUT I would advise you to only listen to a qualified medical professional - whose qualifications you can verify - AND who knows your full medical history [ or at least all relevant items ]

random people on the internet - are not a source of sound medical advice

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Well obviously I'm not using them to decide whether or not I should, I'm using their opinions to help guide my own thoughts. And not so much me I'm concerned about, but that about the general use of the drug and whether or not it's existence is useful.

I've been taking amphetamine for years to stay awake for night shifts.

Very tiny amounts - just enough and no more.

I find it very effective, but there are two drawbacks.

1. I've lost a few teeth
2. It makes me horny as hell.

As to No.1, I've heard it draws calcium from the bones and teeth, but I haven't read this anywhere in books or on the web.

As to No.2, I believe it promotes testosterone release indirectly through the suppression of prolactin. So that would account for the increased libido.

These are the only drawbacks.

It is, otherwise, absolutely splendiferous...it's effective, makes you feel alert and happy.

And I haven't experienced any problems re tolerance and addiction either, which is supposed to be common.

anecdotal evidence:

grand son (8 yrs now) was taking adderall and developed stuttering and bad facial tics.
Switched to vynase, and seems to be doing better.

when hen was young, I thought he was autistic and encouraged his mom to get him tested.
He's not autistic but has a "language deficiency" and of course ADHD (which I think is BS).

When he was taking Adderall I regularly let him skip his meds while I was babysitting him
on the weekends. I do think that allowed him to get some better sleep

reply to post by ConMi27


So I am very skeptical about most meds and seeing that I am a member here I am also very aware of other conspiracies and such about medications and treatments that are mass fed to the public so when it came to adderall I definitely had my ears open. The thing is I do have a very poor attention span so I went in to do something about it and I was prescribed Adderall at a low dose (about 20mg a day) and I have to say I am %500 more productive and efficient on the drug than I am off it. I think it absolutely helps those that actually need it but I also do think that doctors now are giving it to kids that are way too young and haven't had the chance to fully mature in to their personalities because the doctors might be getting a kickback for pushing more of it out and the parents are just getting so lazy they want any excuse to sedate the kids to make them easier to handle. So in summary I do believe this drug is very useful when prescribed accurately to a patient above or around 18yo as to not psychologically interfere with their natural maturing processes but when they use it on children whose parents are just looking for an excuse to make life more manageable I very much disagree. Children should have a chance to grow in to their own persons naturally without psychological manipulation and then be aware of the help they are going to receive if needed. Otherwise I feel as though someone else is manipulating the kids fate....but a side thought I do agree that a child that needs the help because he or she is out of control or so far gone it is imperative he or she gets medication does get it for his or her own well being, otherwise let boys be boys and girls be girls and if u cant stand the heat....dont have a kid! lol (get outa the kitchen yea yea) -Nizzim out

I ahve had teachers suggest that my youngest son may benefit from "screening" or "medical referral". This is how they suggested that I dope him up for their convenience.

No.

He is who he is. He isn't violent, he isn't rude, he isn't disrespectful (unless you deserve no respect). I have raised a very, very fine young man. And I refuse to medicate him for the convenience of others.

All the traits that are obnoxious to the adults are the very same traits that, later in life, have helped me to be successful. He is me in miniature form from our words used to the way he walks. And he will be just fine in the end of it all without drugs to put him into a stupor.

This year he is a sophomore. In the previous 10 years he has gradually learned self control (as it relates to talking in class) and is now what all but his French teacher calls "a model student, behaviorally" (the exact words of a group of his teachers from a meeting earlier this year). The French teacher....what can I say. She is his nemesis, and he is hers.

I know a child who did not understand boundaries at all, no self-regulation whatsoever. Her lows were so negative and despicable and that she was quickly ostracized and isolated. She had no filters whatsoever for her negative thoughts, and verbalized them all to the shock and dismay of her parents, relatives and of course total strangers. In short, this was a really miserable child that no one wanted to be near because no one knew what to expect. Her highs were also unmanageable and were exhausting to witness. Her parents sought help which resulted in Adderall.

To me it is not so much the awful prospect of being on that med as much as the notion of her being a person without any real connections to the world around her, without self control who would eventually do serious harm or have serious harm done to her at the drop of a hat on any given day.

While the medication is a control mechanism, she is now learning about team sports and individual participation in activities on an equal basis. Without the Adderall she could not focus enough to join in any group even though her description of the activity is flat. And although I understand what you wrote about the artificiality of things on the medication, it allows her the time to learn things she will need to be able to function independently and as happily as possible when the time comes to be on her own. It's kind of a med that will buy time for her to connect to the world without always feeling like an outsider.

On the flip side, someone I've known for a long time and who has figured out on her own that she has ADD will not go to see a doctor. Her impulsive bouts have now resulted in pushing her family completely out of her life, something that I find so sad, as she now has children who will never have the pleasure of knowing them and feeling their love.

Wishing you the very best.

I would STRONGLY advise against the use of these pills.

Adderall contains amphetamine aspartate and amphetamine saccharate, which are both known by the state of California to cause cancer in lab rats. Look familiar? They're amphetamines mixed with artificial sweeteners.

The other, Vyvanse, employs the use of the amino acid Lysine, but modifies it with dextroamphetamine. Lysine is known for its abilities to help with calcium absorbtion in the intestines and to create creatinine, which helps your body convert fatty acids into energy. Mixed with dextroamphetamine, it could negatively affect the process.

Just my opinion.

aboutface
I know a child who did not understand boundaries at all, no self-regulation whatsoever. Her lows were so negative and despicable and that she was quickly ostracized and isolated. She had no filters whatsoever for her negative thoughts, and verbalized them all to the shock and dismay of her parents, relatives and of course total strangers. In short, this was a really miserable child that no one wanted to be near because no one knew what to expect. Her highs were also unmanageable and were exhausting to witness. Her parents sought help which resulted in Adderall.

To me it is not so much the awful prospect of being on that med as much as the notion of her being a person without any real connections to the world around her, without self control who would eventually do serious harm or have serious harm done to her at the drop of a hat on any given day.

While the medication is a control mechanism, she is now learning about team sports and individual participation in activities on an equal basis. Without the Adderall she could not focus enough to join in any group even though her description of the activity is flat. And although I understand what you wrote about the artificiality of things on the medication, it allows her the time to learn things she will need to be able to function independently and as happily as possible when the time comes to be on her own. It's kind of a med that will buy time for her to connect to the world without always feeling like an outsider.

On the flip side, someone I've known for a long time and who has figured out on her own that she has ADD will not go to see a doctor. Her impulsive bouts have now resulted in pushing her family completely out of her life, something that I find so sad, as she now has children who will never have the pleasure of knowing them and feeling their love.

Wishing you the very best.

what you describe is a child with a true mental/behavioral issue. That is the exception, not the rule.

I refuse to believe that humanity is as miserable and disaffected as drug company revenues would indicate.

If it is, then that is a very intriguing philosophical discussion we can start a whole new thread for.

Yes I believe it exists. My younger brother was diagnosed at around ten with ADHD. How the therapist explained it to my mom was that children with ADHD on top of having a difficult time concentrating and absorbing information, they have a larger craving for actual attention, whether positive or negative.

I've seen this first hand with my brother who is now in his early 30's. My parents could tell him something ten times and it was like it just did not sink in at all, and he'd do exactly what he was told not to do and then be upset that there were consequences. He would sabotage himself socially over and over and not understand why people didn't want to be his friend. He went on Ritalin for a short period in his teens and it did help him but as schoolmates found out and started to tease him that was it, he refused to take it anymore.

In his case (and I've seen this in others with ADD/ADHD) they often fail to grasp the social ramifications of their behaviors because they really do not seem to process the cues of others and understand not to repeat the same mistake.

My brother is as I said now in his thirties and I hate to say it, but he's still a complete mess up, my parents have to bail him out over and over to the tune of thousands of dollars, because he lost a job due to no fault of his own, he was told to move out by a roommate through no fault of his own, etc. etc.

I think that people do not understand the social effect and life skills that are often damaged in ADD/ADHD individuals. They often do not get what they have done wrong, in any given situation. You could sit them down and explain it and they may even pretend to agree to pacify you but will dismiss it almost immediately afterward because their brains literally do not process self analysis the same way most people do. It makes for a very hard life for them and those that love them.


So with regard to medication I'd say it's really a matter of how much the ADD/ADHD is effecting your life, relationships, etc. If you always seem to be 'Eyeore" with stuff happening to you and you can't figure out why, perhaps you aren't processing your behavior as others see it and medication might be an effective tool for you but if you aren't finding any difficulty socially, educationally, etc. Then you most likely do not need a medication that does have serious side effects to assist you with leading a productive life.

CJCrawley
I've been taking amphetamine for years to stay awake for night shifts.

Very tiny amounts - just enough and no more.

I find it very effective, but there are two drawbacks.

1. I've lost a few teeth

Uhm, teeth part is pretty scary/important to me. haha. But I understand.

acacko
anecdotal evidence:

grand son (8 yrs now) was taking adderall and developed stuttering and bad facial tics.
Switched to vynase, and seems to be doing better.

when hen was young, I thought he was autistic and encouraged his mom to get him tested.
He's not autistic but has a "language deficiency" and of course ADHD (which I think is BS).

When he was taking Adderall I regularly let him skip his meds while I was babysitting him
on the weekends. I do think that allowed him to get some better sleep

edit on 28-10-2013 by acacko because: (no reason given)

Yes, sleep patterns are hugely affected with this medication. Even hours off of it, you can lay in bed awake, mind numbingly tired yet physically incapable of sleeping.

aboutface
I know a child who did not understand boundaries at all, no self-regulation whatsoever. Her lows were so negative and despicable and that she was quickly ostracized and isolated. She had no filters whatsoever for her negative thoughts, and verbalized them all to the shock and dismay of her parents, relatives and of course total strangers. In short, this was a really miserable child that no one wanted to be near because no one knew what to expect. Her highs were also unmanageable and were exhausting to witness. Her parents sought help which resulted in Adderall.

To me it is not so much the awful prospect of being on that med as much as the notion of her being a person without any real connections to the world around her, without self control who would eventually do serious harm or have serious harm done to her at the drop of a hat on any given day.

While the medication is a control mechanism, she is now learning about team sports and individual participation in activities on an equal basis. Without the Adderall she could not focus enough to join in any group even though her description of the activity is flat. And although I understand what you wrote about the artificiality of things on the medication, it allows her the time to learn things she will need to be able to function independently and as happily as possible when the time comes to be on her own. It's kind of a med that will buy time for her to connect to the world without always feeling like an outsider.

On the flip side, someone I've known for a long time and who has figured out on her own that she has ADD will not go to see a doctor. Her impulsive bouts have now resulted in pushing her family completely out of her life, something that I find so sad, as she now has children who will never have the pleasure of knowing them and feeling their love.

Wishing you the very best.

I'm going to have to go with the big gorilla on this one. That sounds like serious mental disorders more severe than that of a typical kid with the temperament associated with ADHD. I would be a little worried. But I do appreciate the idea behind it. Probably go with multiple disorders at that point, even though Aderall and amphetamines does increase social interaction and general understandings of things. That's still very severe.

I ahve had teachers suggest that my youngest son may benefit from "screening" or "medical referral". This is how they suggested that I dope him up for their convenience.

No.

He is who he is. He isn't violent, he isn't rude, he isn't disrespectful (unless you deserve no respect). I have raised a very, very fine young man. And I refuse to medicate him for the convenience of others.

All the traits that are obnoxious to the adults are the very same traits that, later in life, have helped me to be successful. He is me in miniature form from our words used to the way he walks. And he will be just fine in the end of it all without drugs to put him into a stupor.

This year he is a sophomore. In the previous 10 years he has gradually learned self control (as it relates to talking in class) and is now what all but his French teacher calls "a model student, behaviorally" (the exact words of a group of his teachers from a meeting earlier this year). The French teacher....what can I say. She is his nemesis, and he is hers.

Good to hear! They said Einstein had autism, yet e=mc^2. (Which meant he probably just enjoyed to play dumb for his own amusement)

Thanks for all the answers!

ConMi27

CJCrawley
I've been taking amphetamine for years to stay awake for night shifts.

Very tiny amounts - just enough and no more.

I find it very effective, but there are two drawbacks.

1. I've lost a few teeth

Uhm, teeth part is pretty scary/important to me. haha. But I understand.

edit on 28-10-2013 by ConMi27 because: mistake

I'd recommend beefing up your calcium intake (tofu, yoghurt, cheese, milk, that sort of thing) when you take amp.

WARNING: Don't take calcium supplements, they can be harmful. Just stick to calcium-rich food.