Global "give everything a wash/clean/disinfect" day - could it work?

I wonder if this has ever been theorized... i would imagine its come up but would it work?

One day of total war on bugs viruses and any other nastys.

A day set aside where no planes travel, no buses, no trains no cars no nothing. Everything just stays where it is (unless special cleansing measures for emergency/vital services) and gets a day of cleaning. EVERYTHING is cleaned, top to bottom, people are responsible for their own house and street for one half of the day then where they work and so on.

Especially hospitals and places with many people.

Could we cut out or cut down on illness and infection enough to make it worth the time?

Have i gone completely insane and this is a project which is silly and cant be achieved?

Or perhaps its good to have sickness in the world to keep our immune systems working hard, and it may be a bad thing overall.

reply to post by Biigs


I can understand you idea but it would never work, most would turn it into a skive day from work and for it to have any effect it would have to be enforced and you would need to do it more than once a year.

I cleaned up my kitchen just last night, now it looks like a large family of chimps has been trying to learn to cook in it.

You also make mention of hospitals.

I have spent many years working in hospitals and cleaning goes on 24/7 (or at least it should)

Biigs

Or perhaps its good to have sickness in the world to keep our immune systems working hard, and it may be a bad thing overall.

I'm going to go with this part. The overuse of hand sanitizers and prescription antibiotics is already making it harder to prevent/treat infections etc. When I read your thread I instantly thought about the cruise ship industry.

Cruise ships are constantly coming down with ship-wide cases of norovirus (Code Red is the term they use). If you have ever been on a cruise you know that around every corner there is someone with hand sanitizer, it's on every wall, they are constantly cleaning, the first day of buffet service is closed to be sure no norovirus breaks out initially, when they dock for turnover the whole ship gets a thorough cleaning, yet there are still outbreaks.

Cruise ships see passengers from all over the world, stuck in a moving hotel for sometimes months at a time (yes, people take cruises up to 4 months and more long). It is arguable whether or not this method is working for them.

I went on a cruise in 2007 and there was not one hand sanitizer station/personnel to be found. Around 2009 it became an occasional issue and the sanitation rules started. This year I was on a cruise and the sailing before mine that got off the day I got on was Code Red, yet our sailing that went out the same day was noro-free. It's still a very widespread issue so much as it has become common, however.

With the increase of norovirus over the years of the cruise industry I am leaning towards these mass cleanings making it harder to control the problem.

Just an example to think on.

reply to post by ValentineWiggin


Thank you for the cruise ship info, i had no idea it was still that bad and they had such a high use of preventive measures!

I know that some where, some one, has something they may not even know about. But i thought even though we cant actually remove some infections from the planet in one attack - but im curious as to just what the reduction in doctor/hospital activity, in the time directly after and in the days, weeks after might be. Even a 10% drop in global rates would be HUGE in terms of not-lost productivity and savings in medical areas.

Perhaps one country could try this, a country where every one is still a team player, maybe Switzerland or some place

Prove its a failure/success!

Given the reproduction rate of micro organisms you had to clean it again 10 minutes later.

The human body is nothing more but an accumulation of microorganisms.

What's the point ?

reply to post by Biigs


The biggest problem with this idea is once your done you will have a clean new canvass for germs to breed on so to speak.

Imagine for a moment if you were to clean an island of all of it's inhabitants except for 1 or 2 of each species (the ones that will inevitably slip the noose), once that happens you will have no natural regulator of breeding. It would be a free for all on breeding, that will bring undesirable effects.

Fact is we need germs and they are not all bad, I'd not be so keen on a world wide sanitation day. Germs will be back within days if not hours in most places and you will not be able to predict just what germs will be breeding or how many of them.

Deadly idea IMHO.

I think for some sectors this could be a real winner - i mean what about having an anti head lice day for all venues and schools to do with children? Would that not, if done on the same day, take a hug percentage of cases out?

I dont see how it could be a total failure
The global scale of course, being wishful thinking (maybe)

Biigs
I think for some sectors this could be a real winner - i mean what about having an anti head lice day for all venues and schools to do with children? Would that not, if done on the same day, take a hug percentage of cases out?

I dont see how it could be a total failure

The global scale of course, being wishful thinking (maybe)

The head lice idea could work, I can't think of anything that feeds of them and they only host of certain species so they would not be damaging to any ecosystem if they disappeared I can imagine.

Whitewashing all bugs/germs on the other hand could potentially make extinct many cultures of fungus for instance, fungus and bacteria don't make good friends and with the rate bacteria can breed I could imagine fungi would not have a good time trying to re-establish itself with their slow reproductive rate.

Also just to add, in nature when ever something is taken out of an ecosystem it never takes that long for something new to replace what was lost. Kind of like evolution to fill a niche in the market, that new "company" could be a neo-ebola virus or something equally devastating. Sometimes it's just best to toughen up with the terrain your in than seek out a totally new and potentially hostile one.

reply to post by Biigs


I have bacteria and fungus living in and on me symbiotically that you may not have the resistance to. You have bacteria and fungus living in and on you symbiotically that I may not have the resistance to. Everyone washing up for a day will not work, they live right inside of us harmoniously.

As you age, your immune system can get stronger and kill microbes that we need in our body to stay healthy, our little communities that need to be kept in balance. B vitamins are made by yeast and other microbes. These microbes living in us convert foods to give us energy and to help to make us healthy and keep us thinking properly. If we ignore the chemistry that they create that we need, we would need to take a hell of a lot of supplements just to live.

It isn't just vitamins, some of these microbes help to convert foods to necessary chemistry to make needed enzymes and hormones. They self regulate their populations and we need many types of them in our bodies.

Everyone has a different family of microbes in their body. Their immune system attacks ones that they cannot tollerate, microbes that others can tollerate. The weapons that microbes use to kill invading microbes are considered antibiotics of a certain type. They use chemical warfare.

If your microbes are matched to your body and are working with you, they keep you healthy. If they get out of balance, you get sick. So who's microbial flora deserves to survive? In my case, I need my flora and in your case you need yours. That is if you are healthy and your immune system is good.

Half of our meats in the store contain bacteria that is pretty drug resistant. Why isn't everyone sick. Some people can live with this bacteria symbiotically if their gut flora keeps them in check. If their colonies get out of balance though, from antibiotics, then the resistant ones take over. C-diff is one of these that is resistant and starts to grow out of control if antibiotics are taken. Also when antibiotics are taken yeasts and candida can get out of proportion since the checks and balances have been taken out.

Don't fear these microbes. Only worry if you take something that gets them out of balance. Antibiotics are needed sometimes to restore the right flora, doctors are usually trained to guess at the most probable type of antibiotic needed. It is just a educated guess most times unless the doctor orders culturing though.

reply to post by Biigs


This idea would be most effective, and beneficial if the deep cleaning were restricted to locations where viral, and other nasties, congregate in one place on a frequent basis. By that I mean, that deep cleaning a house which has been maintained to a decent degree is probably utterly pointless in the main. Hospitals, doctors surgeries, and homes which have had a below par maintenance history however, would be a good idea. If ones own home is cleaned regularly (but not to the point of O.C.D.) then one need not be overly concerned by things like M.R.S.A. and other superbugs, because they simply will not be present.

That said, my work has taken me to some damned dirty places. I should clarify what I am about to say, so that folks read it in context. I am, personally, I wee bit of a slob. I do not own clothes which require ironing, I do not obsess over the appearance of my own room, and I dislike organisation , because I personally feel that it is unnatural in the extreme for everything to have a proper place. Its proper place is where ever the hell I leave it.

However, I am not a dirty person. I do not care a damn about dust, but my GOD I have been some places where every surface, vertical or horizontal, has a film of some sort of sticky substance, usually a mixture of cooking fat and cigarette smoke. The floor will attempt to remove my boots for me, simply by the merit of their soles having made contact with it under the pressure of my weight bearing down upon them. THESE places might harbor all manner of micro-organic fugitives from the fumigator. However, most places simply do not require a medical grade clean.

Public transport infrastructure, from buses and trains, to depots and stations might benefit from such a clean, as would the offices of public services. I happen to know that Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs building near me, is crawling with fleas at the moment, which are living in the carpets and on the staff who work there, particularly those on the third floor for some reason. High traffic areas could all do with a clean of course.

But there again, the human race needs to learn to adapt to new microbiological circumstances at some point, otherwise it will be wiped out by tiny little organisms, which would be the whimper to end all whimpers if you ask me. I prefer a bang (and who doesn't right? )

TrueBrit
reply to post by Biigs

 

This idea would be most effective, and beneficial if the deep cleaning were restricted to locations where viral, and other nasties, congregate in one place on a frequent basis. By that I mean, that deep cleaning a house which has been maintained to a decent degree is probably utterly pointless in the main. Hospitals, doctors surgeries, and homes which have had a below par maintenance history however, would be a good idea. If ones own home is cleaned regularly (but not to the point of O.C.D.) then one need not be overly concerned by things like M.R.S.A. and other superbugs, because they simply will not be present.

I agree with you, but i would like to see train stations, airports and other high volume locations (and the transport themselves!), especially where national/international exchanges of people are - cleaned to a level that hospitals are, perhaps even regularly!

I have got on an international flight and brushed crumbs off the seat, or found sticky handles on doors and such - this cannot be good. Why ARNT places like this cleaned and disinfected! I bet its far worse than any admits.

reply to post by Biigs


As a holder of a degree in biology, I feel the need to comment. While it's absolutely true that we have plenty of bacteria that live in a symbiotic relationship with us so the usage of hand sanitizers and anti-bacterial soaps are not such a good idea as it eliminates the good bacteria along with the bad, that has nothing to do with surface cleaning. Also, to correct another misrepresentation, the reason why the use of antibiotics is such a problem in the development of drug resistance is not because of the drugs themselves but that people do not finish taking the drugs throughout their entire prescribed course. If an individual stops taking the antibiotic when they feel better, those bacterial cells that withstood the first few days of the antibiotic will survive and breed--creating drug resistance. It's not the use of antibiotics that causes this--it's the misuse of antibiotics. Very important distinction.

World disinfection day--hmmm. Would it work? Well, I do know that when a mini epidemic breaks out in a school, the standard procedure is to close the school and disinfect it from top to bottom. This works to a. force sick kids to stay home where they are least likely to contact other children and b. removes the infectious agent from the school environment. I actually don't see anything wrong with the idea of taking a day where work places, schools, and other public places are sanitized--particularly during peak flu season. Would it work? Well, it could work to reduce the number of exposures (based on the same premise as shutting down a school temporarily) and eliminating an infectious agent from an environment. However, the odds are people would probably not follow through. We are in the era of "cutting corners" and if there was no way that anyone was going to check and see if the door handle was disinfected, then odds are things would be skipped. Sad to say but people are kind of dumb like that. Mandate something and there will always be some that try to worm their way around it.

Overall, it's better to drag some of those disinfecting wipes to work with you and give those surfaces a quick wipe on your own now and then. That way you know for sure that it's been done. Absolutely clean your work phones, keyboards, mice, desk area, filing cabinet handles and more. You'd be amazed what a quick swab of any one of these things could grow in a petri dish. I know because I had to as part of my biology major. It's disgusting.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I cleaned up my kitchen just last night, now it looks like a large family of chimps has been trying to learn to cook in it.

Wow. It sounds like my kids were in your kitchen right after you cleaned it.
I hope they didn't try to make pancakes there. That is one of their messier things that they do.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Thank you very much for your post, good information and from the relevant background too!

It is a big, big shame that we cant do anything on the large scale that requires a particular level of precision and skill - because of people who do it wrong, badly or even just not at all. What kind of a person sits on ass, while the rest of the entire world is doing something that *arguably* will benefit the world?! Well its true, they are out there.

This was not really a exercise to rid the world of bird flu or MRSA etc (well, if it worked id take the credit!)

But surely such an effort would reduce general influenza, colds, coughs, glandular fever and other once a year type illnesses. Maybe even such a cleanse may help to reduce bugs in the food industry, no one fully expects to never have salmonella again, but a reduction in the cases can only be a good thing! right?

I knew this would be an interesting idea for a topic.

reply to post by Biigs


Absolutely. In terms of people following through as they are intended, if you want a good gauge as to how people will find loopholes, just look at the tax code. Half of the reason why it's so convoluted is because people found loopholes to the initial tax codes (outside of tweaks for economic stimulus and other tax credits). It's a mess, lol, and we made it that way. You see it consistently across everything. My family used to run a gas business and it was kind of appalling and humorous to watch some of our employees still smoking at the pumps regardless of possible termination, the question of safety, and OSHA's regulations. Sometimes, I think it's human nature to find the "easy" way out without regard to potential consequences.

The day of disinfection idea really wouldn't be a bad way but regulation and enforcement would be an extreme deterrent. You'd literally need inspectors swabbing random objects and seeing what grows in a petri dish to verify that the work was actually done. Considering how many establishments are out there that it would be useful to do in, that's just way too much to enforce.

If there were to be anything that we could do to help inhibit the spread of infectious disease would be to make it a law that, if you are sick, your employer or school must send you home or allow you to stay at home until the illness has cleared. Our current society is not conducive to "sick time". Our schools are set up so that attendance is mandatory and they are penalized if students do not have a near 100% attendance. On top of it, parents of school age children may not be able to get time off at work so if a kid has a runny nose and a cough, off to school they go...to infect every other child at school. That needs to change if we are actually going to be serious about staving off infectious disease.

Every person that goes to work or school sick risks infecting their coworkers or classmates, their families, and whoever else they may come into contact with. We have to change the rules because what we're doing could very well come back to bite us hard.