Why are the pyramids built with the sized stones that they are?

abacus10

Astyanax
reply to post by WeRpeons

 

Makes no difference what you think. Empirical proof is what's needed to resolve the issue.

Empirical proof shows it can be done and was done.

WHAT ABOUT WITNESS STATEMENTS?

Just how did these Ancient peoples claim that these structures we built?

STONEHENGE - The stones were FLOWN IN from South Wales by Merlin according to Ancient British Legend.

Merlin was created in 1136 A.D. by Geoffrey of Monmouth. So Merlin didn't exist (and never actually existed as he was a fictional character) until 3,000 to 4,000 years after Stonehenge was built. Please just leave, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Hanslune
reply to post by punkinworks10

 

I'll also add that the AE back filled the quarries with rubble....why would you have rubble if you are grinding up the limestone to make concrete?

Oh, and the stones get smaller as the tiers go up.

You also forgot to mention they found tools and quarries with unfinished stones.And then there are the Egyptian records which discuss the quarries and the hieroglyphs of the blocks being transported.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

dragonridr

Hanslune
reply to post by punkinworks10

 

I'll also add that the AE back filled the quarries with rubble....why would you have rubble if you are grinding up the limestone to make concrete?

Oh, and the stones get smaller as the tiers go up.

You also forgot to mention they found tools and quarries with unfinished stones.And then there are the Egyptian records which discuss the quarries and the hieroglyphs of the blocks being transported.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

It's funny how all of that is forgotten by can't accept the fact that the AE used a lot of hard work and tried and tested stone working techniques to accomplish the things they did.

I'd like to add to the list of things we know for sure, payroll records for the people who worked the pyramids and records of injuries sustained by workers.

It appears we have proof the Egyptians built the pyramids but we have many theories about how they built them, although we're coming closer to a complete answer. If only the Egyptians had left explicit instructions for how they built them rather than random archeological relics and some miscellaneous drawings on the wall.

What I get from it is they probably used canals to float the stones to the building site. They also probably used ramps at the pyramids. There's evidence both were used.

This link explores roman accomplishments with large stones and monuments:
gilgamesh42.wordpress.com - Moving the Stones of Baalbek–The Wonders of Roman Engineering...

I like hte comment at the end where the person writes:

........
But that isn’t to say there isn’t more to learn. Archaeologists have noted how the designs and plans changed multiple times, and while construction may have begun under Herod the Great, structures were still being worked on throughout the second and into the third century. The nature of these changes and how they affected the construction of the rest of the temple complex is not completely understood. Other points of why the workers and engineers decided not to continue in using the most massive monoliths are also worth exploring. So there is plenty to research; it’s just that there isn’t anything that aliens/giants can explain better.

Riffrafter


The size of the stones was dictated by the design of the structure.

that sounds correct.... the dimensions of the building blocks was a mathematical & engineering solution

to have a several decades long project be carried on by people that just grunted the stones into place and without any planning have the structure just 'fall into place' by the mere repetition of placing blocks beside the next with a predetermined back-set from level-to-level....all the way to the platform base upon which to set the cap stone block



the capstone height is what determined the base,,,and therefore the size of the individual blocks... geometry

the Greek golden age was supposed to be the origionator of this higher math, but the pyramid builders seem to have mastered the stone masonry math & engineering of pyramids/ monoliths
instead of columned Temples/monuments like the Greeks


...just different applications, the Greek Temples were more elegant than Pyramids but pryamids were awesome

WeRpeons
You're giving a simple answer for a time where tools that have been discovered near the pyramids were found to be primitive. I don't care how many times you can whip a hundred human beings to lift a 2.5 ton block of stone, there is no way in hell, considering the primitive tools used back then, they could lift these stones 2,3,8,12 or 14 stories.

What you are saying here is that a single person cannot drag 450 pounds up a gentle lubricated slope.

I've moved 500 pound drums around the plant floor with no help whatsoever and no lubrication.

The fact that your muscles are too puny to comprehend this means only that you need to eat spinach ala Popeye, not that it can't be done.

Harte

I find it interesting that thousands of workers are supposed to have worked on the Giza Plateau and we have yet to find a single crap pit. Where did they get rid of all that bread and beer?

I think the theory is fundamentally erroneous.

To answer the question posed by the OP - it takes far longer to bash a rock out into the shape you want than it does to drag it up a ramp and place it on the mortar.

Even if each stone was only cut in size by half, that single cut would require an increase in the number of faces to be dressed by one third.

It was faster and easier to use the larger stones.

Earlier tombs were built with mudbrick, which doesn't cause the same increase in work required as a reduction in stone size would.

Harte

reply to post by FreeMason



I find this Documentary's line of reasoning to sound

Ancient Aliens Debunked

reply to post by FreeMason


Here are some of my favorites, along with a link to 25 cool facts,,, which is a short list of cool facts about the pyramids.

The interior temperature is constant and equals the average temperature of the earth, 20 Degrees Celsius (68 Degrees Fahrenheit).

The outer mantle was composed of 144,000 casing stones, all of them highly polished and flat to an accuracy of 1/100th of an inch, about 100 inches thick and weighing approx. 15 tons each.

The cornerstone foundations of the pyramid have ball and socket construction capable of dealing with heat expansion and earthquakes.

The mortar used is of an unknown origin (Yes, no explanation given). It has been analyzed and its chemical composition is known but it can’t be reproduced. It is stronger than the stone and still holding up today.

It was originally covered with casing stones (made of highly polished limestone). These casing stones reflected the sun’s light and made the pyramid shine like a jewel. They are no longer present being used by Arabs to build mosques after an earthquake in the 14th century loosened many of them. It has been calculated that the original pyramid with its casing stones would act like gigantic mirrors and reflect light so powerful that it would be visible from the moon as a shining star on earth. Appropriately, the ancient Egyptians called the Great Pyramid “Ikhet”, meaning the “Glorious Light”.

Aligned True North: The Great Pyramid is the most accurately aligned structure in existence and faces true north with only 3/60th of a degree of error. The position of the North Pole moves over time and the pyramid was exactly aligned at one time.

Center of Land Mass: The Great Pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of the earth. The east/west parallel that crosses the most land and the north/south meridian that crosses the most land intersect in two places on the earth, one in the ocean and the other at the Great Pyramid.

It is reported that when the pyramid was first broken into that the swivel door, weighing some 20 tons, was so well balanced that it could be opened by pushing out from the inside with only minimal force, but when closed, was so perfect a fit that it could scarcely be detected and there was not enough crack or crevice around the edges to gain a grasp from the outside.

With the mantle in place, the Great Pyramid could be seen from the mountains in Israel and probably the moon as well.

The weight of the pyramid is estimated at 5,955,000 tons. Multiplied by 10^8 gives a reasonable estimate of the earth’s mass.

Sun’s Radius: Twice the perimeter of the bottom of the granite coffer times 10^8 is the sun’s mean radius. [270.45378502 Pyramid Inches* 10^8 = 427,316 miles]

The curvature designed into the faces of the pyramid exactly matches the radius of the earth.

The relationship between Pi (p) and Phi (F) is expressed in the fundamental proportions of the Great Pyramid.








- See more at: www.ancient-code.com...

OccamsRazor04

abacus10

WHAT ABOUT WITNESS STATEMENTS?

Just how did these Ancient peoples claim that these structures we built?

STONEHENGE - The stones were FLOWN IN from South Wales by Merlin according to Ancient British Legend.

Merlin was created in 1136 A.D. by Geoffrey of Monmouth. So Merlin didn't exist (and never actually existed as he was a fictional character) until 3,000 to 4,000 years after Stonehenge was built. Please just leave, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Well, that's raw BUNK.

There is NO evidence that Geoffrey of Monmouth made up Merlin. Indeed, some researchers suggest that, rather than Merlin being a single person, it is a "job title" that in ancient times meant Shamen, hence it would have been A Merlin who flew the stones there.

Likewise, whilst some Easter Island legends hold that the great stone heads walked there, another researcher spoke to a native who was well versed in the Island's legends who insisted that they flew in.

abacus10

OccamsRazor04

abacus10

WHAT ABOUT WITNESS STATEMENTS?

Just how did these Ancient peoples claim that these structures we built?

STONEHENGE - The stones were FLOWN IN from South Wales by Merlin according to Ancient British Legend.

Merlin was created in 1136 A.D. by Geoffrey of Monmouth. So Merlin didn't exist (and never actually existed as he was a fictional character) until 3,000 to 4,000 years after Stonehenge was built. Please just leave, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Well, that's raw BUNK.

There is NO evidence that Geoffrey of Monmouth made up Merlin. Indeed, some researchers suggest that, rather than Merlin being a single person, it is a "job title" that in ancient times meant Shamen, hence it would have been A Merlin who flew the stones there.

Likewise, whilst some Easter Island legends hold that the great stone heads walked there, another researcher spoke to a native who was well versed in the Island's legends who insisted that they flew in.

Ummm actually there is lots of evidence he made Merlin up. Please show me sources for what you claim.

reply to post by FreeMason


So why use big stones to build the pyramid when perhaps lesser stones would have done the job?

The answer to this, (and without being an expert) , might of course be (so simple) that such huge sized stones were needed in order to hold the entire structure in place, but once we are actually talking about the large stones that are used as building blocks in various ancient structures around the world, it might be a good idea to take a closer look at the whole ‘huge stone usage’ issue in the first place.

Lots of people often seems to Wonder if aliens really built all those enormous stone structures that we still see more or less intact today. And if so. why did they use stones? My theory about that is that these aliens came from a planet where almost everything was built With stones. It was their culture and that’s what they used. They were indeed master masons and it seems to me that they could build almost anything out of stone. They probably had thousands of years of building experience on how to hande stones.

Once one starts to read all those ancient texts that are out there (especially the Sumerian texts), we soon enough realize that the aliens also seems to be very proud of the things that they built here on earth. But there is still some other issues and questions about the consequent use of stones , that comes to my mind. It could for instance be that resources on the home planet of these aliens was Limited and stones was the only alternative, ot that the use of other resources on their planet was regulated by laws.

But there is still some other issues that are important to consider regarding stone usage, because some of the ancient texts that are out there claims that these aliens also colonized other planets besides Earth. Think about it. What is the resource that are available right there in front of them when they first arrive. Right. It’s stones. It’s there in large quantities and just have to be cut shaped and put in place. We also know that stones used as building material have lots of other advantages. The structures could stand for an earthquake, it could stand fires, storms and it could protect from pillage and war, and lastly; Such structures could survive and last for thousands of years.

I know that lots of AA-theorists (such as myself) , believe that all these mega structures built out of stones (including the great pyramid) was built by ordinary people with the help of the aliens. I don’t fully agree with that. The ancient Sumerian texts tells us that it was the watchers and demigods who built those structures. lots of other ancient biblical sources tells the same. The Pyramid, Sphinx, Puma Punku, Baalbek and Petra are for instance (a few) good examples of what they built and show us the marvels those aliens could do with stones.

There is also an ancient biblical text that confirms that these aliens built those ancient structures . It’s called the testament of Solomon and it tells in details how the giant watchers, and a multitude of giant demigods built the first temple of Solomon. However. Before you read this text, it is important to understand the meaning of the word “demon”. In ancient biblical context, the word demon had two different meaning. It was used on deceases and it was used on the giant watchers and their offspring as well as demigods. Even though, the testament of Solomon seems a little odd , it is important to concentrate on the essence and filter out the exaggerations.

According to this ancient text, Solomon was granted permission by the council of the alien colonists to use the watchers , their offspring as well as a mixture of demigods as Labour to construct the first temple of Solomon. Solomon was also granted the use of the Shamir. The Shamir was a nuclear powered laser tool that could cut stones as if it was paper.

In the testament of Solomon, we learn about a man named Beelzeboul. From this person we learn that he is the last living watcher remaining of those 200 who once descended to earth at the time of jared. Beelzeboul was at that time the leader of the descendants of the remaining watchers and their offspring , and it was Beelzeboul who organized the work. Beelzeboul was also (in later time) wrongly referred to as one of the Satan’s.

Even though these watchers possessed tools and technology that could handle and lift stone blocks that was enormous and weighed hundreds of kg, there was probably also a limit. The biggest building block yet found is the Baalbek stone, with an estimated weight from 1200 to 2000 kg. That could very well have been about the limit. But let us again return to the testament of Solomon again, because there is a short reference to how they did handle such big stones here. So here are some quotes:

“And there was a stone, the end stone of the corner lying there, great, chosen out, one which I desired lay in the head of the corner of the completion of the Temple. And all the workmen, and all the demons helping them came to the same place to bring up the stone and lay it on the pinnacle of the holy Temple, and were not strong enough to stir it, and lay it upon the corner allotted to it. For that stone was exceedingly great and useful for the corner of the Temple."

And on the next day, I King Solomon, went into the Temple of God and sat in deep distress about the stone of the end of the corner”

“I am the demon called Ephippas, that is in Arabia. And I (Solomon) said to him: "Canst thou raise this stone, and lay it for the beginning of this corner which exists in the fair plan of the Temple ?'' And he said: "Not only raise this, O king; but also, with the help of the demon who presides over the Red Sea, I will bring up the pillar of air, and will stand it where thou wilt in Jerusalem.''

“Saying this, I laid stress on him, and the flask became as if depleted of air. And I placed it under the stone, and (the spirit) girded himself up, and lifted it up top of the flask. And the flask went up the steps,carrying the stone, and laid it down at the end of the entrance of the Temple. And I Solomon, beholding the stone raised aloft and placed on a foundation, said: "Truly the Scripture is fulfilled, which says: 'The stone which the builders rejected on trial, that same is become the head of the corner.' For this it is not mine to grant, but God's, that the demon should be strong enough to lift up so great a stone and deposit it in the place I wished."

“And Ephippas led the demon of the Red Sea with the column. And they both took the column and raised it aloft from the earth. And there the pillar was hanging of enormous size, in mid air, supported by the winds. And thus the spirits appeared underneath, like air, supporting it.

Reading this , one must bear in mind, that the ones that told these stories and the authors that eventually wrote it down, didn’t understand fully what they saw, and could therefore not describe the technology that these aliens used to move the huge cornerstone. Nevertheless. It seems pretty clear to me that some kind of ancient alien technology was used though, whatever it was.

When it comes to the Shamir (The nuclear powered lazer) I will supply a description of it from the work ‘Legends of the Jews.’ By Louis Ginsberg. in a second post

reply to post by helius


The Shamir: (The ancient lazer)

“The shamir was made at twilight on the sixth day of creation
together with other extraordinary things.It is about as
large as a barley corn, and it possesses the remarkable property
of cutting the hardest of diamonds. For this reason it was used
for the stones in the breastplate worn by the high priest. First
the names of the twelve tribes were traced with ink on the stones
to be set into the breastplate, then the shamir was passed over
the lines, and thus they were graven. The wonderful circumstance
was that the friction wore no particles from the stones. The
shamir was also used for hewing into shape the stones from which
the Temple was built, because the law prohibited iron tools to be
used for the work in the Temple.The shamir may not be put
in an iron vessel for safe-keeping, nor in any metal vessel, it
would burst such a receptacle asunder. It is kept wrapped up in a
woollen cloth, and this in turn is placed in a lead basket filled
with barley bran.”

reply to post by Klassified


So true. Couldn't have said it better myself.

reply to post by TheEthicalSkeptic


There actually seems to be a considerable amount of research to back up the concrete theory.

This is a quote from Michel Barsoum, a ceramics expert who spent five years researching this theory.
You can read the article Here

A year and a half later, after extensive scanning electron microscope observations and other testing, Barsoum and his research group finally began to draw some conclusions about the pyramids. They found that the tiniest structures within the inner and outer casing stones were indeed consistent with a reconstituted limestone. The cement binding the limestone aggregate was either silicon dioxide (the building block of quartz) or a calcium and magnesium-rich silicate mineral.

The stones also had a high water content — unusual for the normally dry, natural limestone found on the Giza plateau — and the cementing phases, in both the inner and outer casing stones, were amorphous, in other words, their atoms were not arranged in a regular and periodic array. Sedimentary rocks such as limestone are seldom, if ever, amorphous.

The sample chemistries the researchers found do not exist anywhere in nature. "Therefore," Barsoum said, "it's very improbable that the outer and inner casing stones that we examined were chiseled from a natural limestone block."

More startlingly, Barsoum and another of his graduate students, Aaron Sakulich, recently discovered the presence of silicon dioxide nanoscale spheres (with diameters only billionths of a meter across) in one of the samples. This discovery further confirms that these blocks are not natural limestone.

His findings seems to clearly state that the stones used in the pyramid are not found anywhere in nature, and that the blocks are actually made of a concrete material called geopolymer. The necessary ingredients for geopolymer were readily available to the egyptians.

The binder, known as a geopolymer, could have been made from lime, kaolinite (a kind of clay), a fine silica (such as diatomaceous earth) and natron (sodium carbonate). The same ingredients were used by the Egyptians to make self-glazing pottery ornaments, a material called Egyptian faience, and well known to archeologists. When fired at high temperature, the material produces a rich blue glaze on the surface. But if left for days or weeks at room temperature, it self-cures into a rock-hard material that could have provided a binder for cementing the disaggregated limestone together into cast blocks.

MIT also did a geopolymer experiment Here

I'm not sure why this theory isn't more popular, it seems to have a lot of proof behind it.

reply to post by Harte


I moved a 4 ton stone a 110 meters using 24 grad students, some wood, a simple pulley and an 'A' frame.

dragonridr

You also forgot to mention they found tools and quarries with unfinished stones.And then there are the Egyptian records which discuss the quarries and the hieroglyphs of the blocks being transported.

Yep and the pottery which ties the rubble to the 5th dynasty - unless someone thinks the 5th dynasty guys dug out the rubble took out the older pottery and put there's in!

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reply to post by helius

So why use big stones to build the pyramid when perhaps lesser stones would have done the job?

One reason they may have done this was due to the amount of work needed, ie it was easier to move a huge stone than cut it up, also at that time they had no effective way to (no concrete) put stones together - that or they thought it was best for reasons we don't know.

I think the stones are the size they are as a theft prevention measure of sorts. Regular sized building materials may get snatched and re-used elsewhere. It wouldn't be much different than walking off with a cinder block. Stones of the size used in the pyramids need special quarrying tools to break down, and nobody wants to take the time to do that to a public landmark where everyone is watching.

As for moving? Build a (wooden?) form around the stone so it's like a big cylinder. Rolling resistance vs. circumference means that something at that size weighing 10,000lbs only needs a bit over 500lbs force to get it rolling. (Provided the roller doesn't deform much and is balanced.) Once it is rolling, if it's on flat ground, the amount of force to keep it rolling is a lot less. Thus the amount of manpower needed to move one stone isn't as ridiculous as people would think. The only thing is, I'm surprised no engineers have tested this, even though they should be well aware of how rolling resistance formulas work.

As for moving uphill? The most logical way to do it would be to put a cogging mechanism on the roller that surrounds a stone and have it mate to an underlying track. (Just like a rack and pinion gear.) This would prevent slippage as it rolls, so you could use more mechanical advantage to move it. Then just lever and block the thing as you move it on its way up.

But no, such means which apply mechanical advantage seem too simple. And the most typical brute-force modern methods (carting and craning) can't do it. So aliens.

reply to post by FreeMason


"Why are the pyramids built with the sized stones that they are?"

Maybe because it wouldve been harder and retarded to make them from smaller ones like brick and mortar, we do not know why but they certainly did it with big ass stones cause the architects probably had big ass stones. damn pharoh was prolly like were going to use what oh no we using this can you do it and the other guy said hell yeah we can do that and youll save millions eff yeah