Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature - Murray Rothbard

I would close all social services in federal government, fire everybody and sell all of the equipment, property and land. The resulting funds would be returned to taxpayers in the form of lowered taxes, refunds and peace of mind.

States, towns, non-governmental organizations and individuals (my preference) may engage in sweeping acts of empathy and compassion with my enthusiastic best wishes (though I may leave the state it happens in).

reply to post by greencmp


You would end Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment, welfare, WIC, and the VA. Tomorrow. The world would lose its entire mind, and there would be riots and madness from sea to shining sea, and then there would be starvation and property crime on a scale we have never witnessed. And then the stock markets would crash, the jails would fill, and the state would, literally, fail. It would probably take 10 days.

Zombies can't top that.

Thank you for being specific.

michael22

I would close all social services in federal government, fire everybody and sell all of the equipment, property and land. The resulting funds would be returned to taxpayers in the form of lowered taxes, refunds and peace of mind.

States, towns, non-governmental organizations and individuals (my preference) may engage in sweeping acts of empathy and compassion with my enthusiastic best wishes (though I may leave the state it happens in).

reply to post by greencmp

 

You would end Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemployment, welfare, WIC, and the VA. Tomorrow. The world would lose its entire mind, and there would be riots and madness from sea to shining sea, and then there would be starvation and property crime on a scale we have never witnessed. And then the stock markets would crash, the jails would fill, and the state would, literally, fail. It would probably take 10 days.

Zombies can't top that.

Thank you for being specific.

edit on 16-10-2013 by michael22 because: (no reason given)

It would probably have to start with a reverse income tax as much as I hate to admit it.

Eliminate as indicated above but, instead of lowering taxes, take the money and distribute it evenly among citizens. As it turns out the current beneficiaries would likely receive comparable benefits (as would every other US citizen).

That demonstrates just how much waste there is, the bulk of the resources are being consumed by the bureaucracy. The actual beneficiaries of the welfare state are the welfare state employees.

Over the course of the next year, we can discuss how silly we had been and how we might begin to address the problem (or leave it for another year). In my opinion, it is by far a better stop-gap measure.

greencmp
So, when you said that peaks lower and concentrations disperse, you meant in a single organism, how can a single life form be egalitarian? Are you saying that every cell has a similar goal in mind and they work together?

I'm not understanding you?

What is unclear to you regarding my analogy of the human body as communist totalitarian state?

What part of

"From each cell according to its ability, to each cell according to its needs."

doesn't make sense to you?

Besides not being true biologically, and a poor metaphor for complex social systems, we are talking about individual people whose goals are rarely the same, if ever.

It's actually a very good analogy.

Your claim that it isn't is simply arbitrary.

The constituent organelles of a single cell aren't alive.

Believe it or not, I am curious what your point is. It would be nice if you had one.

I already stated my points.

What you've done here is simply dismiss them out of hand and ask me to come up with new ones cause these aren't to your liking.

Tough luck.

greencmp
Do you mean that when someone becomes a great hunter, it is natural for everyone to gang up and kill him and take what meat he had at the moment and extinguishing his singular ability to produce game rather than barter for meat? That kind of egalitarianism?

edit on 16-10-2013 by greencmp because: (no reason given)

Is this what passes for dialectical capitalism in your circles?

greencmp
How does taking care of one another equal egalitarianism? I call that empathy and compassion, not egalitarianism.

Why does it bother you so much you can't do it directly, that the state intermediates that empathy and compassion?

Do you want to be seen helping the poor? Do you want the poor you're helping themselves to see you helping them? Maybe even express a bit recognition and gratitude?

Is that your motivation in helping them?

Matthew 6:1–4

Charitable Deeds

Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.

It seems to me you ought to be thankful the state is helping you be a good Christian by enabling you to help without being seen actually, directly doing it.

In this the state is providing a service to its Christian citizens.

I am glad that you recognize that high producers in unstructured society are highly prized and rewarded for the inordinate contributions to the tribe.

The family, the core of society, is communistic.

A mother does not demand payment up front from her baby for giving it her breast to suckle no.

Tribal society is highly socialistic.

The men hunt and share their catch.

The women gather and share their crop.

The old, the young, the sick, the elderly are helped and supported.

Also, lots of hunting is co-operative. Especially when you're hunting game considerably larger in size than your.

Wolves, hyenas, lions and ancient humans depredation was and is carried out in this fashion.

So far, these comparisons are proving my point so keep them coming.

Again, just because you make an arbitrary claim does not mean you are correct in your assertion.

You might be in your own, private, imaginary world.

But not the world the rest of us inhabit.

greencmp
My position is that people cannot form authoritarian governments that fail to be inhuman. There are no examples that prove otherwise.

So the head of a family is inhuman?

The state, our elected officials are our collective, elected heads of the national family.

Indeed, you can argue some are very poor fathers and stewards of the nation. And I would agree with you there.

Does that mean the national family should not exist or should have no head?

Sorry, I don't buy into anarchy or the law of the jungle.

We are all one huge, extended family, is what you people fail to understand.

To take perfect examples of individual kindness and compassion and attribute them to some projected set of mandated state regulations as your defense of totalitarianism deserves rebuke.

It's what Jesus taught, ain't it?

Mark 12:17

And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.

You are wrong in your analogies and have yet to make a point in defense of egalitarianism other than to erroneously state that humans were always so.

Again with the arbitrary assertions.

I am sure there is one I am just not hearing it.

There are many, in fact.

It just so happens that you are deaf.

Pejeu
What part of

"From each cell according to its ability, to each cell according to its needs."

doesn't make sense to you?

No part of it.

I find it astounding that supposedly intelligent people can be so vacuous.

There is an aphorism that we (people who believe in freedom and liberty and abhor tyranny and statist domination) have always taken as a truism.

"Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely, great men are almost always bad men."

You have clearly dismissed this warning.