Do occultists seek fame within subject? Is there a such thing as a internally famous modern occultis

I have noticed that in many variety entertainer areas there are internal famous people. For instance there will be ventriloquists who seem famous to ventriloquists, but that nobody else knows: people involved in ventriloquist orgainsations etc... The same will go for juggling etc. My question is: has the occult and magick gone down this same path? Has it become so insular that people seek fame within it? Has it been taken over by grey men who love to run organisations?

werewolf99
I have noticed that in many variety entertainer areas there are internal famous people. For instance there will be ventriloquists who seem famous to ventriloquists, but that nobody else knows: people involved in ventriloquist orgainsations etc... The same will go for juggling etc. My question is: has the occult and magick gone down this same path? Has it become so insular that people seek fame within it? Has it been taken over by grey men who love to run organisations?

Yes. There are occultists and pagan reconstructionists that are internally famous. Not always for the reasons you would think. Sometimes, they are famous within the community simply because they are hot or because of secondary actions. Some, like Crowley, become famous internally at first but then become famous externally as well.

But there are names that most in the field would recognize but it's no different than any other guild-type of niche demographic. I'm sure that that extends to most of them whether it be rock climbers, drain cleaners, truck drivers, or yogis.

It's just another niche with its own culture.

All caps title = trashy thread, 98% of the time. Just saying.

reply to post by Cuervo

In things like ventriloquism those internally famous apparently seem to be universally crap at ventriloquism. I heard it is the same for those magic trick people: all the internally famous ones are crap. I suppose occultists seem to be cleverer because the most famous ones never get seen actually having to produce results at all. Alisteir crowley never made public predictions testing his occultism., or cast spells that would show public results. The same holds true today. Those who do work in the occult in public: occult consultants like myself produce results publicly: but vagueness and running societies and publishing books that are secret to all but those who join, seems to be the route Alisteir Crowley took and many have followed.

werewolf99
reply to post by Cuervo

 

In things like ventriloquism those internally famous apparently seem to be universally crap at ventriloquism. I heard it is the same for those magic trick people: all the internally famous ones are crap. I suppose occultists seem to be cleverer because the most famous ones never get seen actually having to produce results at all. Alisteir crowley never made public predictions testing his occultism., or cast spells that would show public results. The same holds true today. Those who do work in the occult in public: occult consultants like myself produce results publicly: but vagueness and running societies and publishing books that are secret to all but those who join, seems to be the route Alisteir Crowley took and many have followed.

It seems that you may be in the same line of work as I am so I'll answer this as I would if I were having this dialog with myself. "Think about what the word 'occult' means and it will dawn on you"

reply to post by werewolf99


It has if you consider Jordan Maxwell...he's somewhat of an occult celebrity but he's been pretty quiet since the lawsuit. At least this is my understanding.
Apparently the Wachowski Brothers stole the idea for "The Matrix" from him but that isn't what the lawsuit against him was about from what I heard.

-Amitaba-

I know what the word occult means: secret knowedlge. But lets be honest, it is neither hidden or secret most of the time. That which seems to be hidden is never any better that that, that isn't.

reply to post by werewolf99


There are many famous occultists, but I'd say they are few and far between.
The ones who are huge were basically pioneers in their area, so they made the first marks.
People like Gerald Gardner, Anton LaVey, Aleister Crowley, Herman Slater, Marie Laveau.
They became famous for various reasons. Some creating a religion, or writing books, or being the first in this area to do what they did.
Now a days, we have some authors, but they tend to only be famous within the craft itself.
The only really semi famous neo magicians I can think of these days are Laurie Cabot, who has now formed her own branch of Wicca.
Silver Ravenwolf, and Lady Rhea.
There are some others, like Raven Grimmasi, Migine Gonzales Whippler, Anna Riva, and Fiona Horn, but they seem to only remain big names within the pagan community.

At least it isn't as bad as many other subjects where the truly useless always seem to rule. Probably because they work out that they are crap, and so rise up within niche subjects by becoming administrators. At least no matter how bad things get, or how badly magick and occultism is attacked, at least we are not a man with his hand up a puppets bottom talking to himself. There isn't a spell for that is there? That would be the ultimate curse. Turn people into ventriloquists. Is that too cruel for words?

However I do think that most people have not heard of any of the occultists that have been mentioned. This is not a great way to get famous: not that it stops people. Like that guy on uk tv who talks a load of twaddle about a persossn who owned a medieval sword: which by pure chance no body knows anyhting about, except that it is that old. But TV loves to hire the frauds: as he was proved eventually, as they know what they are going to do. Real magick is not necessarily that great to watch and the effect takes a while to see, and when you do it isn't necssarily spectacular to watch.

reply to post by werewolf99


Check out 'GOLDEN DAWN' on wikipedia....... or on their website, its a name that now has 2 seperate meanings. One clearly displayed nowadays in Greece.

reply to post by werewolf99


It really depends on where you're looking.

People like MacGregor Mathers, A.E. Waite, Dion Fortune, Madame Blavatsky, and Aleister Crowley were definitely insular names during the British revival. They helped organize and arrange much of Western Occultism into the shape in which it is known today. Without them the "temple" organization, the grade levels, and various common practices, including Gematria, Qabala, the Tarot, astrology and alechemy would not be standards in occult schools.

Much of modern Wicca, including figures like Gerald Gardner and Raymond Buckland were directly inspired by Crowley, or Waite, or Dion Fortune. They are, in essence, the second-generation of insular occult celebrities. On their coattails you have people like Peter Levenda and Donald Tyson—both of whose work I greatly enjoy—that carry on the traditions.

At the same time though, you have other, less widely known, but infinitely more important (I think) names. Those would be people like Isaac Bonewits and John Michael Greer, who essentially sparked the Druid renaissance. Or Barbara Walker and Migene Gonzalez-Wippler (who was mentioned elsewhere) that have kept Feminine Mysteries, Shamanism, and other non-Wicca magic alive and well. Even figures like Thorsson and Freya Aswynn who have endorsed more pure variations of Asatru and Seiðr (Norse revivalism); or Aaron Leitch, who is (almost) single-handedly responsible for resurrecting true Enochian scholarship.

There are always the hacks, for sure; individuals who prey upon gullibility, like Silver Ravenwolf, or Konstantinos. But, then again, every niche has those types. Whether you're discussing people like Peter Popoff in televangelism, Sylvia Brown in spiritualist circles, or any of these con artists, having some bad apples among the bunch is inevitable anywhere that money can be made.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Eryiedes

Intriguing post, as I had heard from a friend a long while back that the script from "The Matrix" was in fact stolen and that is why the two sequels fell so short.

Add to that, a dream I had a few months ago, whereby an entity was speaking through me that "The Matrix" was actually a metaphor of our reality wherein we live in a sort of virtual simulation and are unaware of beings outside this simulation harvesting our energy (the machines) and the higher officials within this simulation are aware of this and seek to suppress this revelation (the agents).

Forgive me for not addressing the original post.

In that regard I can as of now cite you at least one what you would call "internally famous" occultist.

spellsandmagic.com...

This individual goes by the name "Puzuzu" and has appeared to have gathered quite a following over the years.

Please let me know if the link does not work.

reply to post by InfinitePerspective


Trouble is I looked at the sight and cannot see who it is that runs it: so it is unlikely he is internally famous.
However here is some people who on online and they work through man sites.
community.oranum.com...

So could these people become internally famous? Most people working on oranum can be found on dozens of other sites as least, perhaps more than this if you add in all the online shops etc. I really think that doing the occult is a very bad route to fame however. I think it is best done for other reasons.

I don't think that occultists really become famous. It is just that everyone now is famous to someone. There really is just megastars and huge amounts of everyone else. If you add together the various fans and followers on all the webpages everyone is on we are all famous to someone. When we see a web page usually we cannot tell if they have many fans or just a few e.g.
www.srob.co.uk...
no one can tell if he has many fans of not by just looking at his web page.