Satanism: Hard Questions (Need Answers)

I am by no means an expert on Satanism--and though I've read a bunch about it I have a few questions/comments that I hope ATSers more knowledgeable than myself can address...

First of all, I find the basic idea expressed in several Satanist websites concerning how Lucifer is the knowledge-bringer & the "illuminator" of mankind to be very attractive, and that part "speaks" to me. But there are certain things that I have a problem with or am unsure about

1) Is or is not Satanism a religion defined by being the "opposite" of Christianity?
a) From my research into contemporary Satanism, I get the impression that it is officially NOT defined by being in opposition to Christianity--instead, it hearkens back to more ancient religions like that of the Egyptians & the Sumerians. With no offense to that viewpoint, it smacks of the same revisionist-history thing that people (and not a few Satanists) criticize Wicca for. While I have no problem with using such revisionism as a basis for a *modern* religion (like Wicca does), I cannot buy that the "lineage' of Satanism has stretched out unbroken since ancient times.
b) If Satanism does not define itself as being the opposite of Christianity, then there is no need for any rituals that "mock" Christian rituals like communion--so basically, all those rituals where the naked chick is the altar & there are upside-down crosses & so forth do not apply, right? And there is also no need to harp on "The Hated Nazarene" or to get into the theory that angels are the *real* demons, right? Because if this is the case, somebody needs to inform the many Satanist websites that *do* obviously define themselves as being the "adversary" of Christ.

2) Does Satanism=Being "Bad"? (a rather childish-sounding question, but let me explain)
a) When I was a teenager, kids who "practiced Satanism" defined themselves as people who liked to be "bad." Obviously this is a child's viewpoint of the religion--but a very widespread one.
b) If Satanists adhere to certain things that would be considered "Bad" by society, what are they? Sexual taboos broken? The belief of the natural supremacy of the strong over the weak? The willingness to look unflinchingly at such realities as death & violence & extreme sexuality?
c) Do Satanists have a moral code & if so what do they base it on? If they do not have a moral code, are there any things they "draw the line on" -- and if so, what do they base this on?

3) Do Satanists really "draw the line" on human sacrifice & other things that would be considered evil?a) I know that a practicing Satanist might bristle at the question. But it is something I really need to know. Because as much as there are aspects of Satanism that I find interesting & that I would add to my own personal philosophy--I am very unsure as to the real answer to this question, and this is what keeps me getting involved in Satanic groups & so forth.
b) Human sacrifices have been performed by (so-called?) Satanists throughout history who have defined themselves as being the "opposite" of Christians. And that brand of Satanism was frankly born out of Christianity itself--it might have been a way for errant Christians to express the massively repressed darker side of their selves in an explosion of violence. But I firmly believe that human sacrifices have been performed in the name of Satan--the question is whether those who performed such acts were extremists and abberations.
c) Human sacrifices have been performed in the ancient times that many Pagans & Satanists attribute as the "starting point" of their religions. I think such sacrifices have also been recorded in the Bible, and at least one was requested by God Himself?
d) Where did the common occult belief that sacrificing a human was the most magically powerful sacrifice one could make come from? Also, the belief that sacrificing a child was more powerful still? When Aliester Crowley mentioned this in his writings, was he serious or was he kidding? Where did this belief come from?

4) Is it possible that there are two different "flavors" of Satanism going around? On one hand the "fair & balanced" one that believes in freedom, knowledge, personal power--and on the other the darker, more secretive one that takes the concept of evil to its realization?
a) I unfortunately believe that this is the case, that there are two radically differing Satanist belief systems out there.
b) The "accessible", open Satanism of Church of Satan, etc. seem to be very similar to Wicca in terms of having certain moral lines that they say they will not cross. It seems to be a religion of increasing knowledge, opening up freedoms, and realizing one's personal power--very noble goals, and what attracted me to them. These groups say up-front that they in no way sanction any killing, child abuse, etc. The people who gravitate & make up their ranks are free-thinkers, those honestly searching for an appropriate "real" spiritual path, etc.
c) The secretive, "hidden" Satanism of conspiracy lore & legend I believe has some basis in fact. I think this type of Satanism attracts people who outwardly appear to be successful & upright citizens of their communities. They totally define themselves as being in opposition to Christianity and in extension to "goodness" & morality. They really could not give a damn about how the Sumerian god Enki is really Lucifer & etc. They worship Satan because they feel to do so brings them material possessions & power. Far from opening up websites about their beliefs, I think they would rather die than ever admit what they are doing. I think such Satanism has led to human sacrifices, child abuse, etc. I think such Satanism attracts people like politicians, celebrities, religious people from other faiths like Christianity, etc. I think that conspiracy theorists like David Icke bring up some good points about this but then bury it in the fantastic (shape-shifting lizards) and then the whole thing gets discredited.

I have so far not found a lot of unbiased literature addressing these questions. The major Satanic websites completely deny that anything remotely truly evil has ever been done in the name of Satan, and say it's a Christian conspiracy. The Christian websites give tons of info on the "downside" of Satanism, but their viewpoint is so completely biased that it poisons their information. Any insight, info, links, references to books on the subject would be most appreciated.

In the meantime, I will do what I've always done--take useful bits of philosophy & insight where I find it, shine the light of objective critical inquiry on the rest. And if I offended anybody's religious beliefs in this post, due to my ignorance and/or annoying ability to play devil's (insert guffaw here) advocate, I'm very sorry. I'm not "for" or "against" any one religion or philosophy or political viewpoint--I think life is much too complicated to do such a thing.

I can provide some insight for you, or may reiterate things you allready know.

Satanism in the Anton Levey sense, is empowerment of the individual through becoming the epitome of strength in humanity. Questioning the world around you doing what though will, yet harming none. Levey Satanism is all about we as humans are god or gods.

We have the power to acheive greatness through ourselves without holding onto the crutch of community. Through Satanism, we embrace our inner rebel against the system. Lucifer God's fallen angel was the ultimate individualist. this religion was established in the late 1960's. When you here the term hail Satan what you really are hearing is their believers saying hail me, hail the individual. I reiterate they do follow structure and their own morality but this group does not promote hate and killing and ritual abuse. It is completely foreign to them as productive members of society.

Now I will explain Devil Worship, not Levey Satanism. To be exactly the opposite of Christianity. Not adhering to the moral code, and living your life exactly opposite. To seek to harm and destroy others, in honor of Evil in the personification in the purely Christian Version of the Devil. This group are the ones responsible for the most heinous things like Black Masses and sacrificing animals and children. This is not a religion, but an evil cult. They do not gather in large groups, and have sense of real oraganization. They do not seek to further their inner strength, and do not belive themselves to be gods.

So I want to be clear, All of the Evils you hear in the Name of Satan are done by Devil Worshipers. It is a common misconception, that Satanism is the same as Devil worship, these are patently 2 different things. Satanism worships the self, in a hedonistic lifestyle, and Devil Worship worships the traditional blood spilling opposer of God.

2 Different groups, both get a bad name from the acts of Devil Worship. Satanism and Devil worship are 2 different animals.

I hope this clears things up a little.

All this from a God fearing man not made blinded by ignorance and fear. I like to think for myself and find out the truth behind the lies and innuendos.

-ADHDsux4me

[edit on 14-11-2004 by ADHDsux4me]

ADHDsux4me,

Thank you very much for your well-thought-out reply! This actually really does clear up some things for me that I couldn't quite wrap my head around & I do appreciate it.

I have read some of Levey's work & in it he makes it quite clear that he does not advocate violence against children or animals & that he finds such action repugnant. This is the basic vibe I get with the major Satanic websites & literature.

The distinction between Satanism & devil-worshipping is an important one. Unfortunately, because devil-worshippers tend to be more secretive & Satanists tend to be more open & visible, it is the Satanists who get the scapegoating when some ritual killing or whatnot pops up in the news. I think that if Satanists could make the distinction between themselves & devil-worshippers crystal-clear on their websites & literature in the way you have described, it would help.

Cassie,

Can I get a way above vote from you hun? Pwetty pwease?

-ADHDsux4me

read the book "The First family of Satan" it examines satanism quite carefully. I found a copy at a cathlic book store. Serously

[edit on 14-11-2004 by bushfriend]

Could you sum it up for us?

Thanks,

-ADHDsux4me

Originally posted by ADHDsux4me
Cassie,

Can I get a way above vote from you hun? Pwetty pwease?

-ADHDsux4me

Well, you've just cleared up a thing that has been bothering me philosophically for many months--that should have been obvious to me through my research but I never quite *got* it--so here you go!

Thanks Cass!

Does a happy dance!

-ADHDsux4me

i just happen to have a pretty worn out copy of the satanic bible at hand and i think satanism is summed up pretty well (excluding the book of belial, which is mainly magic) with the nine satanic statements:

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years



but as a previous poster stated it is mainly a form of self empowerment.

also for it's views on christianity i recommend trying to find a copy of the opening part of the satanic bible called the book of satan

and it does expressly forbid harming any animal (a group that includes man) unless attacked or for food

Do not be fooled. The people who practice these things believe that lying is telling the truth. They believe that evil is good and good is evil. They are backward as it were and they in no way want to empower you. This is not self improvement. This is death at its core.

Jeremiah 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

I am not dissing anyone's belief here. I just wanted to impart my opinion on the subject matter. I do feel the need to share it with you.

reply to post by jackflap


I beg to differ jackflap.

Satanism (and I refer to LaVeyan Satanism) never actually makes any claims about good or evil, about self improvement or self destruction or anything like that.
LaVey's Satanism instead suggests that we should spend a little less time trying to improve/destroy/better/worsen ourselves, a little less time worrying about wars between fictional deities (and yes, the Devil is also one of those deities. Satanists don't say 'Your god's fake but ours isn't!' They say 'All gods are fake!') and a little more time living the life you want to live. This DOES NOT mean 'Do whatever the hell you want! Kill, burn, rape and pillage!' This means realise that you are in fact an individual, your life is your own and that you do not need to act in accord with the conformity of the masses. It also means that should you do something which damages society as a whole (crime, violence etc) you are responsible for your actions. You cannot blame religion, upbringing, drugs or friends. As an individual you are free, but you are also accountable.

One of the most fundamental philosophies of Satanism is that we should 'Do unto others as they do unto you.' Friends and family, who will give you love, should be treated with the exact same love. The person who tries to threaten you, hurt you or otherwise is an offence to you should be treated in a way that reflects their treatment of you and then removed from your presence.

As james420 posted the Nine Satanic Statements, allow me to add to his post by adding both the Eleven Satanic Rules of Earth:

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show them respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat them cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you, unless it is a burden to the other person and they cry out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them.

And the Nine Satanic Sins:

1. Stupidity
2. Pretentiousness
3. Solipsism (the belief that only your mind exists)
4. Self-deceit
5. Herd conformity ("That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely, instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.")
6. Lack of perspective
7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies
8. Counterproductive Pride
9. Lack of Aesthetics

I hope this helps anyone who wishes to know more about Satanism. Do not immediately think that the word Satan necessarily equates the entity that Christianity believes is the Devil. Rather, Satan in this sense is the name given to the force that is the self.

" It's anti establishment "

Yea but at some point satanism becoms it's own establishment just like the ones it protest against.

and also at what point does one search for revealed truth and stop questioning sound doctrine.

Now here's the sas truth about satanism, and I'm talking about the devil worshippers only.


Padre Pio a stigamatist seen satan weekely in spirit form, Padre could see dead souls, souls in purgatory and souls in heaven.

God allowed the devils to beat Padre Pio for an offering, and so they were allowed to tempt and beat padre because they are full of hatred almost weekely.

Padre Pio stigmatist ws a victim soul for others. he said one time.


" If you could see the devils in human form they would blot out the Sun "


Satan goes forth with demons to tempt men, try and make them despair, his ultimate goal is to try and get souls to commit suicide, but if they are strong enough to resist which most are he gets them to live a lifestyle of nothing but sin and pride.


And so the real devil, the one people worship and the one Jesus talked about is pure evil. He wants nothing but your and mine destruction, if you love him he hates you more.

If allowed, if God allowed him to harm you he would walk in your house tommorrow and literally hit you in the head with a hammer until you die. He's deprived of grace, no fealing.


so this is the real truth about satanism.


Satanist also have a black mass, where they perform sex acts on the alter and kill animals, btw killing animals not for a sacrafice but to show that they are for cruelty.


Modern satanist might not do this, but I'm talking about real hardline satanist.



Peace.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Satanist also have a black mass, where they perform sex acts on the alter and kill animals, btw killing animals not for a sacrafice but to show that they are for cruelty.


Modern satanist might not do this, but I'm talking about real hardline satanist.

Just to clarify a point; LaVeyan Satanists do not perform any form of mass except in cases where it will be humorous for all involved to mock the established rites of other religions.
Black Mass, like any other Mass, prayer etc, is something Satanists (the LaVeyan branch) are against. Performing any form of religious ceremony for the benefit of a non-existent deity is pointless. So rites for God and rites for the Devil are equally pointless as both entities are 'spiritual pipe-dreams.'

The only truly 'holy' rite that should be performed is the celebration of one's own birth, as this day marks the birth of yourself and therefore the birth of your God, and should be celebrated in any way you see fit.
Other days of significance are nights like the Solstice, Walpurgisnacht (which was the day LaVey solidified his doctrines) and Halloween. With the exception of Walpurgisnacht which marks the creation of Satanism, the other holidays are mainly celebrated because of the associations people give them rather than for any supernatural reason.