An Important Message - An Attempt To Get You To See The Danger That Is Staring Us All In The Face

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


Well thanks for the tip.

I don't know about eminent collapse but the system needs and is going to get major adjustments. The financialization of the health care sector created incentives that were counter to the efficient delivery of quality care. Over romanticization and marketing created artificial demand, and wondrous results built hope and expectations.

How do we streamline and increase quality in what is basically the human body repair shop?

I think we can do it.

reply to post by intrptr

Sorry about the callousness... I'm not that selfish about clinging to life. What makes elder people hang on and receive every new procedure multiple times to keep them alive like that?

You're young I'm assuming?

Within those bed ridden in-firmed bags of flesh, lay a person full of wisdom and knowledge that has a desire to pass it on. That desire is full of fear. Who wants to go before their wisdom is passed along.

The next time you see a person living on the edge of life / death, sit and listen to him / her.. and soon the person will release their hold and put their life in a higher power.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


Good stuff, thanks. BUT - fyi, did some research on health insurance a few years ago and learned that working class employee groups set up Health Insurance Cooperatives to protect themselves (sometime in the early 1900's ?). Then, because it was so successful, Big Biz stepped in, got government to make so many regulations that the workers' cooperatives could not afford the administration costs, shut them down and took over the new "Health Insurance Industry." ...Don't have time to look for my old docs but you may want to check it out.

randyvs
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn

 

Any suggestions OP ? I mean this should concern everyone of us and does for the most part .
So what do you see that can be done ? Even tho I'm pretty sure nothing will be.
I ask only because you are a long time study of the field.

edit on 19-9-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

What can be done?

Not much really. The ponzi scheme is on its last legs. I am sure the socialists will say "Look at the rich, lets take their money" but that is just a band-aid.....their money will eventually run out.

Every damn thing is falling apart, you can see it everyday.

All I can say is happen sooner then later.....at least at this moment I have a fighting chance.

reply to post by RobinB022

You're young I'm assuming?

Its not the years, its the mileage.

Within those bed ridden in-firmed bags of flesh, lay a person full of wisdom and knowledge that has a desire to pass it on. That desire is full of fear. Who wants to go before their wisdom is passed along.

Don't fret. Everything you have learned and experienced is in your memory. You won't lose any of it.

The next time you see a person living on the edge of life / death, sit and listen to him / her.. and soon the person will release their hold and put their life in a higher power.

That happpens anyway, regardless of what I do. Each of us is on a different journey to the same place. But I get the listening part.

reply to post by MidnightTide

Every damn thing is falling apart, you can see it everyday.

" No great civilization is conquered from without, until it has destroyed itself from with-in ".

Will Durant

randyvs
reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn

 

Any suggestions OP ? I mean this should concern everyone of us and does for the most part .
So what do you see that can be done ? Even tho I'm pretty sure nothing will be.

edit on 19-9-2013 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

I have thought about this, in fact I have given it quite a bit of thought with no solutions that will work on a large scale. I talked with a few doctors today, and they admit they don't hold out any hope of the Calvary showing up. Most say they are expecting the insurance companies to raid the pantry and take a powder. They believe that Obama care will be a dismal failure and we will end up with some feeble form of Universal health care.

Whatever we end up with I can assure you it will not be the healthcare Americans have grown to expect and demand. Many of the specialist and the doctors that cater to the elite, are refusing any form of Medicare of HMO insurances. My mother's doctor stopped taking Medicare 2 years ago. He only continues to see my mother because he has taken care of her for years and he has sort of become her adopted son. (You have to know my mother. She adopts everyone and everyone calls her Nana throughout the whole community).

I think we will grumble, and go along with whatever program the government dishes out. The majority of Americans can't even go 24 hours without their I-phones or electricity. Too many Americans are willing to sit back and wait for the government to save them. Even if they don't like it, they will go along with anything they are told as long as they can continue to pretend they have it better than someone else and can continue to suckle at the teet of the electric Trojan horse.

I read in another post were someone said "If no one is willing to make sacrifices, nothing will ever change"; (or something like that). For us to make the necessary changes that will make a significant difference, requires a lot of sacrifice by a lot of people. The only positive thing about the mess we are in is that our children will grow into this lifestyle, never knowing anything else. It will be the norm for them. Soon any talk about a free American, that had rights and were the rulers of this great county, will be fairy tales or just the ruminations of an old senile person that is ignored, tolerated or labelled insane. Did I say this was a "positive" transition?

Not enough Americans will actively seek change and not many will support the ones that do. We are in this mess because too many of us have become complacent, selfish, and fearful. We have evolved into Borgs, blindly following the commands the Borg Queen/ King; assimilate or die.

Sorry for the typos in the last post; posted from my cell on my lunch break.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


This scenario has been talked about for a long time and of course it's true... but people don't really think it through and see that they might be in trouble down the road, however....

Many, many, many people already have little to no health care because they don't make enough money... so just because the majority will be in the same boat isn't a newsflash... welcome to America.

The dreaded single payer system reactionary yahoos despised (generalizing, give me a break) might just save their butts in time, if we act collectively to DO something about the many real problems we face instead of diatribes and team picking.

We deserve what we get, unless we come together and act for once in several decades. We are going to have to be concerned with other human beings soon, for selfish reasons... heh.

To be honest, I really don't care. Seriously. This whole mess is a weeping, open, festering wound spewing pus and bile for decades, and because we can't deal with any change to our already vulgar and repetitive routines, bandaids are slapped on, instead of cutting this wound out and healing properly. Bandiads will only hold it in for so long.

I myself don't care either way. I have nothing to lose at all. I do not own a house. I do not have any money invested anywhere. My family has died off, I have no kin left. I do not have health insurance, nor would I really want it anyway, given what I have seen of the medical industrial complex. I really have nothing, my life would not change in any significant way should everything collapse into dust and chaos/meltdown develops. And there are millions like me. People with nothing, who, because we have no desire to get saddled with impossible and enslaving debt, will forever live on the fringes of society.We have nothing invested in the system, because we could never get a foot deep enough in the system to have a stake in it.

There are more things wrong here with than the medical system. The whole system is broken. We have an economy that expects people to have college degrees just to work low wage jobs. College degrees which cost money and put people in debt they simply cannot pay off in their measly jobs. Just to have what are considered the basic essentials to function in modern life (car, cell phone of some form, even a primitive one, internet access) makes living and saving up for the future nearly impossible for many people. (if you think that a cell phone, internet access, and a car are not required, try finding and keeping a job without them. Every job I have tried to apply for these days requires online application, even when you walk into their business. You need a method for them to contact you, and land lines are disappearing. I don't know of anyone who has one anymore. And then when you live in an area with no or inadequate public transit, a car is absolutely a necessity if you want to work. It's a luxury to find work within walking distance of home) Job security is a thing of the past for just about anyone not in the medical field. The good old days when a person could work hard, save money, and then get the life security they need are long gone. it just isn't possible, unless you wish to live in a unibomber shack. Many items become obsolete within a few years of development, and can no longer be used, new upgrades have to be purchased to make the items useful or even functional.

What are the options? For the really poor, you are stuck having to nibble government teat to keep from living in a cardboard box. Which drains an already breaking system, and drains those paying into the system. Then the borderline poverty, where you don't qualify for government aid, but a sick day or unforseen emergency can break you down into the breadline, because you don't make enough money to save for rainy days. Then there are those who make enough to live on and save, but spend themselves into ridiculous levels of debt to live "the dream".

The whole system as we know and understand it is sick and diseased, and frankly, it really can't be fixed at this stage. At least not reasonably fixed. And to be honest, we do deserve it. We can blame the elites, the banks, the government, and corporations all we like, but in the end, we are the ones to blame. Because the elites, the banks, the corporations, and government would have never been able to take it this far had it not been for the short-sighted, short term gains thinking, selfish, mindless feeding frenzy of stupidity and apathy of the cattle. People not stopping to think how in the long term, having everything "now" would cost double or even triple in the future. Or stopping to critically examine and think about the bs the banks, elites, and governments were feeding us.

So really, I welcome total breakdown. Bring it on. This structure is too termite infested to be saved. Let it burn so we can rebuild. And maybe next time, we will not build our houses with a cheap and flimsy building material like wood.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Several times I had to scroll back to the top of this post to check the name of the poster. So much of your post had me thinking I had lost my mind because I didn't remember writing this post but in many sections it sure sounded like I did.

I have to say I hear you and agree with much of what you had to say.

most of what the medical establishment does to patients is detrimental to health. idk, maybe 99% of pharmaceuticals are counterproductive. disease (not health) care in u.s. sucks huge percentage of gdp with little benefit to victims. are people insane to take all these drugs? all these high-tech procedures, surgeries etc.? they have to be! 'let your food be your medicine and your medicine be your food.' whatever happened to real food, fresh air, sunshine and exercise? processed foods guarantee poor health, much less round-up saturated gmo's. then take handfuls of artificially colored chemical pills to address symptoms while causes progress and worsen. i have no insurance, haven't seen a doctor in decades, though i could require emergency care at any time like anyone--but screw this sick disease maintenance system--it has little value of any sort in restoring anyone's health. let it go--they're seeking a 90-95% population reduction anyway, and they have the tools ready to do it (including going underground and leaving us to natural havoc). that's all the slaves they need to run the machine; the rest: 'useless eaters'. society is not going to just meander down this darkening road indefinitely--end game time is here, folks!

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE STATEMENT "KILLED THE GOOSE THAT LAID THE GOLDEN EGGS"
Now this needs just a tad of background..
As a high school Debater, we debated the Social Security System Trust Accounts. Started in 1933 it required both labor and business to contribute combined total roughly 3.5% of the nations payrolls. Now a quick figuring means at that rate if no one retired and was there an originally waiting period of 10 years, then about 30 years later the entire U.S. currency would be in the Trust Accounts. Of course with normal life expectancy of age 62 and WW2 and Korea there were alot of contributors that diedand would never retire. The Trust Accounts grew. Remember a Trust Account is exempt of access by anyone but the holder of the account. This drove the Politicians nuts.
By 1962 the Social Security Fund had Trillions of dollars in it due to a lot of War deaths and Poor Medical knowledge of the time. The fact of the funds was just drawing interest drove the Politicians to the conclusion that if you tapped the funds and gave it to a segment of the population they would be grateful and love and vote for you. The Democrats had taken a hit due to their positions on Segregation and needed a new image.
They came up with a way to tap the funds by simply giving the fund an I.O.U. from the government and borrowed the money. the thought was that the fund was inexhaustible.
The Johnson administration and Dems set up Welfare and Medicaid to be funded with I.O.U.'s to the Trust Fund. Totally illegal. Oh by the way We are in another war where people will die and never draw their S.S. Retirement. More money in that is never coming out.. A boom...
The fact that they did not set up any restraints on Medicaid Billing Cost let the Medical Industry have a blank check.. They develop all lot of good things and there was a lot of Fraud.. Still is a lot of Fraud.. About $200,000,000,000.00 (Two hundred billion per year) in 2010.
Along came the Reagan Administration.. country was on it's ass again financially after the Dems. / Jimmy Carter went on another spending spree. WOW..There set $5 trillion dollars in Social Security Trust Accounts and a bundle of I.O.U's Let's just eliminate the term "Trust Account" and let the proceeds of the F.I.C.A. go directly into the general fund.
Now let's take all the existing money, put in I.O.U.'s to cover the $5 trillion.
Now we have the $5 trillion to build a War Industry when we don't have a war.. STAR WARS and with all the new jobs the F.I.C.A. will cover the Retirees, Medicare, Welfare and Medicaid... this will work as long as we never have a slow down in the economy. oops.
And here we are.... The thing that pisses this 76 year old retiree... they call all the money I paid into my Trust Account gone (at one time in the history of S.S. you could actually close out your Trust Account and take a LUMP SUM payment) and they call My Paid in for 63 years of working .."An Entitlement".. I worked 63 years paying in and IT IS AN ENTITLEMENT.. BULL..
YOU NOT WHEN A POLITICIAN IS LYING.. WHEN HE IS AWAKE AND MOVING HIS LIPS, HE MIGHT EVEN LIE IN HIS SLEEP.

reply to post by F4Driver


Oh I forgot that the majority of the Politicians are Attorneys passing laws of all kinds (Creating their own industry) and circling like buzzards above the Healthcare industry...
Tort reform must be a factor in the fix of the health insurance fix...Limit settlements @$250,000.00 and make the plaintiffs pay all legal and court cost on loss frivolous cases...Medical Liability Insurance runs the cost of medical service up tremendously.
Fix Fraud in Medicare and Medicaid and we're starting to approach a start to fixing things.
You want to fix everything in one swoop.
Go to a Fair Tax System, reassign all IRS efforts to guarding our borders, collecting Medicare/Medicaid fraud cases.

reply to post by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf


Wow Skadi....

That post was bloody brilliant !

Pardon me while I pick up my jaw from the floor...


I agree, the system is so damn FUBAR'd there's no way in hell it can be fixed. The corruption is so deep seeded into everyday society and literally built right into the system from the roots up that it's just too damn concrete set into place. It's unfixable, and always has been.

And we've been fools to think otherwise.


It's going to hurt like hell, for each and every one of us, but it does need to burn to the ground.

All of it.

reply to post by CranialSponge


Most of us have already had everything our parents dreamed for us to have. Clothes on our backs, a roof over our heads. Waking up to a good breakfast, even if it was just oatmeal, and going to bed with a full belly. Sometimes we may have even had a bedtime snack, home made. Experiencing the joy of waking up on Christmas morning to that "one" special gift you wanted so bad that you slept with a of picture it (cut from a Sears Roebuck or Montgomery Wards catalog., under your pillow.

Doesn't sound like much. In fact, we didn't think it was much and it sure wasn't enough. We wanted more. If you think about it, you can't even put a name to the more, but we know that we had to have it. We sacrificed time, health and relationships for the elusive more. Most of us never got it and now it seems we have lost it.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


Heard some very disturbing news from one of the insurance reps. It looks like at least one of the big boys is running scared.

Look for the bigger ones to start going after the niche markets. Think back to the beginning of the insurance schemes. Watch the young and healthy get targeted the heaviest. They are going to drool over the ones that will pay into the system the longest without sipping from the cup.

Grandma and grandpa can forget about that hip surgery and anyone else that can't be stitched back together with duck tape and chewing gum and back in the trenches in a week, will have to stand in line. I do think triage is going to take on a whole new meaning.

The smaller guys would be smart to merge or just cut their loses. If they were real smart they would co-op with the doctors and nurses and form their own system. They would be able to take back some control of the health care system. They would have to put their feet down collectively, and they would definitely have to go the holistic and herbal route because the pharmaceutical companies are the worst in running up the cost in healthcare.

The mess that healthcare has become makes going backwards look very appealing right now.

*warning posted from my android phone, it speaks a language of its own*

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


Saw this coming back in 1990 when the DRG's started up. Coincidentally, our hospital also initiated a "BioEthics" committee at the same time.
When you have an aging population, an HIV infected youth base, financially failing insurance companies and a critical nursing shortage, what one stroke of the pen will alleviate the burden of healthcare?

Let the people die.

Expect Agenda 21 to come in via "healthcare reform". All dialysis patients, all type1 diabetics, all transplant patients, all "useless eaters", all cancer patients, and a host of others with chronic illnesses currently manageable (but expensive).

If you didn't realize healthcare was a racket you will by the time they're done with us.

The answer to everyone's 'healthcare' problem is simple and easy but not one that the healthcare providers and drug companies want to hear.


In the 'free market' prices should be driven by supply and demand AND what a person is willing or ABLE to pay.

The price of healthcare has been skewed by insurance companies and by governments provinding 'taxed' and tax payer supported healthcare.

In the UK the drug companies over charge the National Health Service for drugs and so they sap and leech from the tax payers of the UK. Doctos are over paid for what they now do........GP's new contracts meant a lot started to work part time and to get an appointment to see a doctor in the UK is not far off impossible if you don't want to wait for 2 weeks. Infact, the last time I saw my GP she told me to make an appointment for a blood test. There were none available for two weeks and I was to keep coming back every day to try to make an appointment. Twelve months later, i have given up. The NHS is on its death bed and the insurance companies, best friends with politicians are slavering at the lead to take over the country's healthcare.

In a 'REAL WORLD' healthcare would be a fraction in price to what it is now as people cannot afford to pay the extortionate prices that drug companies and doctors would charge for their services. Insurance and tax artifically inflate health care prices.

The way around this is to scrap all insurance paid healthcare and all tax payer supported healthcare and then let healthcare find its REAL price..............not as much as the rapaciously greedy supposed healthcare providers would want to charge.

In a free market economy, not slanted by govt support and insurance EVERYONE would be able to afford to go to the doctors and doctors and drug companies would not be RICH, and worse, full of themselves!

The bankers should never have been bailed out and the continuing bail out for drug companies, hospitals and doctors should stop.

But the world is run by the greedy. A bacteria does not care that the body it is feeding off is being killed by itself and that as the body dies so will the bacteria. This is the situation the world is in, never mind healthcare.

reply to post by Elliot


You are correct in your belief that the healthcare system was destroyed by greed and there is no innocent party in this mess, but some are much greater culprits then others.

We can't put the genie back in the bottle but somehow we have to bring down Goliath. Until we cap off or cull the pharmaceutical industry, we are trying to duct tape the hole in the dam.

People are directing their anger in the wrong direction. I am not saying we don't have some wealthy and greedy doctors, but they are rarely the ones that we see. In fact, just like in nursing, the doctors have fallen victim to a handful of sellouts and infiltrators.

Most doctors are very hardworking honest people that, unless they are minions for the insurance or pharmaceutical companies, barely make enough money to keep their heads above water. In fact many can't and are leaving the medical field in frightening numbers. They work insane hours, have insurance premiums that are impossible to afford, overhead costs that include not just office space, but equipment, electricity, staff, etc. Add to that the insult of not being able to practice your craft and do what you believe is best for your patients because some young kid barely out of high school is telling you that your patient doesn't fit the computer modules criteria for a test, medication or procedure.

The heart of this disaster, and few are even mentioning, is the drug companies. The pharmaceutical companies isn't just a Goliath, it is more like a Leviathan, Medusa, Godzilla, Predator, Sigorney Weaver- Alien, lethal, vampire, creature-like thing that we unwittingly have invited into our homes and lives. We are addicted to the quick fix panacea, bottled and supplied to us by our glorious, trusted, government controlling masters.

There is no serious attempt at resolution of our healthcare crisis that doesn't start with destroying the hold that the pharmaceutical companies have over our lives and government. Almost every medication produced by the drug companies, originated from a botanical found in the back yard or local woodlands and we have let the counterfeiters of nature's products enslave our government and our lives. We really do need to wake up and take back our lives, but first we have to take back our minds.

If we can take back out minds, we have a chance of taking back our lives. If we can succeed at that, we have a fighting chance to then take back our communities, our government and our country.

We "can" fix this.

reply to post by NightSkyeB4Dawn


I don't really expect anything will ever change.

Drugs companies want money for investment in other drugs and also the very high wages that go with that.

Bankers want a high wage and everyone pays these wages.

The world turns and each day is more or less, one way or another always the same.

Is there an answer? I doubt it.

We can only hope for a more altruistic and caring future.......one day........maybe.

We can't take our money with us when we leave this planet but love......well, that follows us forever. Maybe you can't put it in the bank but then neither can it be stolen from you.


I like to believe that nothing stays the same and after the dark night comes the dawn and a bright day, eventually.