If biblical prophecy is true then it must and will be fullfilled, correct?

reply to post by Rosinitiate


Lol about the "my signature" comment and no offense by that. Most people don't know that even the Dalai Lama has said that violence can be good if it prevents further violence but you must strike first and fast. Hence my warrior scholar title, I would much rather solve any problem through diplomacy. However we live in a world where not everybody feels the same way. I am the kind of person that is not afraid to stand up for what I believe in and will make every effort to keep it peaceful. If the other party does not feel the same way then so be it. I especially dislike bullies, particularly people of larger stature that think they can throw there weight around like they are entitled because they had the good fortune to be born larger than most.

reply to post by olaru12


Im not really that versed in the bible, I just know that the end times are foretold. My point is that if it is in fact the truth then we can't really stop it but instead be prepared should it happen in our lifetime.

reply to post by warriorscholar81
The way to tell a prophet from God, from a psychic - is that every "predicton" from a prophet from God will come to pass - psychics make predictions that may come to pass.

Even satan cannot deny Jesus Christ our Saviour.

God also works on his time, not ours.

People can see that the endtimes may be soon - through the words in the bible about birth pains of the earth -

But, every generation lately thinks things are so bad on earth, that the endtimes must be near.

I think so, but - how much worse can the population of earth and their wickedness/lies/murder/stealing/immorality get? Maybe much, much, much worse.

reply to post by warriorscholar81
The danger is when people such as Bush and Cheney get to be so powerfull that it goes to their heads and they begin to believe that THEY are the ones who have been ASSIGNED BY GOD to "bring on the apocalypse".

There are some who go so far as to want to set the whole world ablaze with nuclear holocaust just so their "2nd Coming" can happen.

Other than those impatient, big ego, dangerous types, I would say go ahead and believe in that ridiculous fantasy..... but because there really are people - and powerful organisations - who take their beliefs as truth, and that our techology is now at the stage where we can destroy the world, I think it is time to confront the religious beliefs and expose them for what they are.

To expose religious beliefs for what they are there are two main ways to do that:
1] look to the history of how these beliefs got started
2] look to the psyche of the people who believe them.


MORE DETAILS:

1] What we see is parallel stories from previous cultures that had the exact same scripture - a "virgin birth of the prophet", then he "dies but is resurrected", and meanwhile he "promises life after death" which of course the resurrection proves is possible. Ahhh, but "proof" isn't there because this was only a story. Nobody ever saw "Jesus" - there is a mysterious gap in history of about 40 years where Jesus would have lived.... but he never lived because it was a story.
THE SAME STORY that has been found in PREVIOUS cultures, from 1000 years earlier and again 500 years earlier - all those same elements

AND, the whole thing was to create "a following". Powerful Elites who want people to be sheeple

AND, the fact that there are several, or even just TWO, religions that claim to be "the only way" - someone must be wrong....

2] People who believe in the stories of religions are prone to the alure of "being followers". Of course it is nice to have someone lay the truth of the world out for you so you won't have to do all that work, and it is only human nature to want to be "part of a flock that is led by the most powerful being/God/prophet that could ever be" - but NONE OF IT IS TRUE.

They told me God would smite me down if I denied him. Well here goes - "there is no God" - nope, I am still here. Athiest!! People might kill me for saying it, but "God" never showed up at all.

So, now from my point of view I see people who want to burn the world down to bring on the 2nd Coming and so can you see why religion is pissing me off JUST A LITTLE BIT??

There is no God. The IDEA of God is both dangerous and lazy. # God. # him up good. TO HELL with God.

Nope, I am still here....

reply to post by Happy1


I agree, every generation has had it's freak out moments and said "oh no these are the end times. Also you have a point in how much worse can it get. I mean we really are living in times where a lot of people are apathetic to the evil around them. I think it gets worse with every new generation. The samurai had a similiar philosophy that every generation has a spirit and as time goes on that spirit degenerates. However that could simply stem from a sense of nostalgia and long for times and traditions long passed as cultures change with time.

reply to post by NoahScape


If your going to respond, please refrain from insulting remarks. I'll have you know that I am most definetely not a follower type and I believe. I will go against the grain and sometimes to my detriment if it means standing for principles that I believe in. Also no one TELLS me what to, you would have much better luck asking nicely.

You know the whole thing about faith is not having proof of the truth hence your belief being based in faith. Do you see how I am not attacking your character or making quasi-insulting remarks about your character based on your beliefs.

Too many non believer types try to throw around there self-proclaimed intelligence and mock and ridicule those that believe. On the flip side of that coin a lot of believers judge and try to chastise non-believers.
I am neither of these types, I respect people's thoughts and opinions even though I may not agree with them. The exception would be in the case of obviously horrendous, obnoxious or just outright assinine opinions. Even in those cases though Im not going to straight to trying to insult the person.

reply to post by warriorscholar81


Biblical prophecy is dangerous. It corrupts and destroys what may have been otherwise good and decent people. I'm going to use a personal story here, but only because I'm currently embroiled in it, and it happens to relate to your thread.

I have a friend who grew up in a very devout Evangelical home. Her mother and father read from the Bible every day, and made her and her two brothers do the same. They tried to attend the Evangelical mega-church that serves our area, but left it, dismayed that the lessons being taught were not the "real" message of Jesus Christ. I myself am not a Christian, and never attended Church with them, so I cannot say what the "real" message of Jesus Christ is, per se.

Around the same time that her parents became disillusioned with the local Evangelical Church, they pulled my friend out of public school. She was home-schooled from age fourteen onward. Even though her parents taught the usual subjects (math, history, grammar, etc.) they also dosed her with an intense amount of "Biblical" course work as well: daily recitations of scripture, daily readings, and all kinds of lessons on the "evils" of the modern world.

Flash forward to 2011. With the help of her mom, my friend managed to get a job working for a local charity (she was prohibited from working for, or going to, any place where women could dress seductively, etc, which worked out fine since the business had a strict dress-code). I also happened to apply for the same place, because my previous job was just way too soul-sucking for my liking, and I felt doing charity work was what I needed.

My on-store training was provided for by my friend, and that was how we met. Now, despite how I may sometimes come off on ATS, I actually have a very warm and inviting personality. I'm friendly, I like to talk with people, and I really enjoy learning about the different ways people live their lives. I like to think that it is an innocent enough curiosity. The more we worked together, the more friendly we became. Eventually we started spending a little time after work together (getting coffee, walking around our town's lake, and other such small things).

This was when I learned that she was home-schooled, was only working at the charity because her mother had forbiden her to work anywhere that women might be looked at with lust, and all the other things she had been brought up with in her Evangelical home. I also learned, though, that she had been learning about the rest of the world outside of her parent's knowledge.

Since the family lived in a small trailer park in town, they didn't really support themselves in town. Instead, they also owned a farm about an hour's drive from where I lived. Every weekend her parents would leave, Thursday afternoon, go do their work on the farm, and not come back Monday afternoon. Since her graduation from home-schooling that had been the routine.

In those four years she had begun meeting people online, visiting colleges, traveling to the nearby city to experience clubs and all other kinds of things, and, finally, learning Korean. Though she had not told her parents, her goal was to become proficient enough to move to Korea and work as an English language instructor there. All of this, of course, she never told her parents about. I only learned, because she was able to use spending time with me as an excuse for going out at times when her parents were home. (I met her parents, exchanged pleasantries, and did everything a good, friendly person should. It won them over, they liked me, and so on. I figured it was extraneous to cover that in too much detail.)

Anyway, less than a year ago she finally came forward to her parents with her plan to move to South Korea, and had already gotten an interview for a job teaching English there. Her mom lost her mind over the whole thing (there's a lot of racism in that woman). But, seeing as she had already taken so many steps, and gotten the interview, and so on and so forth, her parents acquiesced and let her go.

And everything was fine.

Until last Thursday, when she received an e-mail from her mom. Her parents were cutting off financial support, and essentially going to disown her if she didn't quit her job, leave South Korea, and fly back home immediately. Part of her mother's e-mail, when confronted about why she did it, is as follows:

If you were paying attention to what's happening in the world and read your Bible daily you would know that the prophecies of the book of Revelation are being proven true. As important as that is, there is something even more important happening. All of the prophecies are happening quickly. Because of those facts Jesus could rapture his Christians at any time. My greatest fear is that those I love will be doing things the Bible forbids and left behind to suffer the Tribulation. The only way to avoid that fate is to be taken by Jesus when he calls us. If not, even if someone were to repent and then live for Christ, there is a terrible price to pay. You would be saved from everlasting hell, but death would come by having your head chopped off. This is the fate of all those Christians that will come out of the Tribulation.

Life will be glorious after Jesus calls us. It won't be like the movies, but the Bible does paint a wonderful picture for us. After some time we will all return to a new earth where Jesus will reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. There will be no trace of original sin. I'm happiest about having no weeds, or nasty bugs. A eternal body would be great too. Also, it will be wonderful to experience the world the way God created it for us before Adam and Eve sinned.

So this is the position my friend is in now:

She has left behind family, friends, and all that comforts her in an attempt to stand on her own two feet in a foreign land where she wants to bring education to others. By all rights she isn't doing anything that goes against Christian doctrine. She even brought her Bible and has been keeping up with reading it, praying, and all the other things she was brought up to do here in the States. However, because of Biblical prophecy she now has to choose between two roads:

1) Lose the love and support (emotional and financial) of her family by choosing to stay in South Korea and continue to do her work. (her mom already disowned both her brothers for failing to come home)

2) Forfeit her chance at independence and autonomy in life, by going home to live a fear-based existence with her mom and dad who think that the End Times are going to happen any day.

Biblical prophecy has destroyed her life.

Whether Biblical prophecy is true or not, I think it is far more important to recognize how our adherence to Biblical prophecy affects those we love, and the world at large. Is it right that my friend sacrifices everything she has worked for in life so that she can comfort her mom who thinks some Biblical prophecy is being fulfilled right now? Is it fair to the young children my friend is helping in South Korea that they lose a teacher and role model because of some unrelated religious ideal?

They're all tough questions to answer.

And I know the choice she has to make in the coming weeks is even more difficult for her, than for me whose witnessing it from the outside. If the prophecies of the Bible aren't true, than my friend's rash actions have just impacted a couple hundred lives in a very negative way.

Is that the Christian ideal?
To ruin, en masse, the world because of your own religious fears?

~ Wandering Scribe

Not to sidetrack the thread or anything, but, to any moderator watching... my reply above definitely went over the 7500 character limit (not on purpose! I swear!) It seems the "you have 7500 characters left" counter is not working. I did a quick skim of the forums, but wasn't really sure where to report a bug like that. So, anyone who wants to pass it along to the proper people, please do. Thanks a bunch, and sorry for the off-topic reply.

~ Wandering Scribe

IF IT"S TRUE .....
Well .. if a prophecy is true then it's true and it will come to pass.
But a whole lot of 'prophecy' in the bible doesn't seem to be true prophecy to me.

I could come on ATS and say that I'm predicting NYC will be destroyed.
SOMEDAY it will be. Everything eventually changes or is 'destroyed'.
So if 300 years from now NYC isn't there, does that mean I was a prophet?
No. It just means I was spouting common sense.

I see a lot of that kind of thing in the bible.

Someone makes a 'prophecy' and it takes thousands of years for the 'prophecy' to happen.

Sounds more like a blind pig finding an acorn ... it happens sometimes but it doesn't mean the pig got his eyesight back.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


Irrational fear my friend. It's that kind of fear that makes me wonder why families get torn apart like this. Mainly from the most stupidest of things. If Jesus came back today right now at this moment as i am typing this out i dont think a good majority wouldnt even recognize him. The rest wouldnt even care. It's at that very moment that religion becomes a poison of the mind of the very foundation of the human psyche. I continue to ask myself where would we be without religion? Would we even have had the dark ages? How far would we be as a civilization?

Now to answer the OPs question. Yes biblical no wait religious prophecy is dangerous it's beyond dangerous. People tend to give in to fear. that kind if fear tends to lead into situations like this where families end up beng torn apart because if prophecy does come true then that family may end up losing the ones they supposedly love a fear of loss. Theres a saying i like and of course it's from starwars. "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." It's kinda sad when you think about it.

a Biblical Prophecy:

proph·e·cy (prf-s)
n. pl. proph·e·cies (-sz)
1.
a. An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will.
b. A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration.
c. Such an inspired message or prediction transmitted orally or in writing.
2. The vocation or condition of a prophet.
3. A prediction.

by definition a Prophecy Must come from a Divinity or be a Divine Inspiration.... something that science dismisses because there is absolutely no proof of there being a SuperNatural realm or reality, force


the self-fufilling prophecy model is what i feel happens... in that believers cause the conditions/circumstances which are associated with some prophecy utterence to be seen as happening or to have happened...i.e. there are persons that engineer or orchestrate event to try to cause 'prophecies' to occur

a Trend Forecaster, or a Prediction by a Seer is equally on par with a prophecy,
but the former lacks the 'faithful' who insist the religious futurecast or precognition is originated from God or the Creator, a Divine Force or Being...a trend or prediction is made by worldly or non-religious men/women


the second point i disagree with you on is that idea of not experiencing the Peace-Serenity of knowing Christ-Jesus as Savior... i disagree---
i had 2 NDEs and both times i experienced what others refer to as Heaven and the overflowing of Serenity/Peace/Harmony/Ecstacy that washes over your being(soul)
...but i told the disembodied entity i had more stress and pain and growth to experience on Earth as myself, but thanks for the taste of eternal peace and bliss



i suggest that my struggles with schizophrenia has given me a much more developed outlook between religious belief and alternate realities and the similarities+differences ....thank you

reply to post by truthofnitrous


The fact that her mother would so selfishly force her to make such a damaging decision, and one which harms other to boot, is what really makes me cast a suspicious eye toward Biblical prophecy. Even more so than whether or not Biblical prophecy has any merit. I have a four-way view of this kind of thing:

Prophecy is true, and it doesn't cause division among people: VERY GOOD
Prophecy is false, but it doesn't cause division among people: OKAY
Prophecy is true, but it causes division among people: NOT OKAY
Prophecy is false, and it causes division among people: VERY BAD

That's how I approach the idea of prophecy.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


That was a very poignant story and unfortunately there are many similar stories happening a lot.When someone has been indoctrinated so heavily ..especially by their parents or family...it takes a while to recover.My suggestion is to not be in fear of what is happening to your friend.As most people find out by experience those kind of experiences can become invaluable.What has happened has happened it does no good to dwell on it.

To address prophecy of the scriptures and especially the "end times" I suggest the same.Fortunately they are not true but not because the scriptures aren't true it is because the religious have made the scriptures into the doctrines of men.

Firstly the book of Revelation does not contain predictions or prophecy that are literal historical events....it is ALL metaphors written in signs.It is about one thing only.Gods salvation( Yahoshua ).. for ALL of mankind delivering them from the valley of the shadow of death realm (physical realm) we live in.

There is no coming cataclysmic Great Tribulation climaxing in a war between God and his saints and Satan and the evil doers.The only war that is going on is between the religious mans ears..in their carnal religious mind ... the adversary that is at enmity with God.

Yes the world is a mess and great changes are coming but not the end times "apocalypse".....which simply means "unveiling or uncovering" not cataclysm.The changes have nothing to do with a great "religious " awakening but the opposite.The death of religion!Mans great disease is religion..and..everything IS religion! No one can escape it because it is in our nature and part of the process of growth...that's why God is curing us of it.We can do nothing about it because it's 100% in Gods hands.

The cure for many(the many are called) is what is called the religion of God.It is being used by God as an inoculation and anesthesia combination.The religious are completely unaware of their advanced stage of the disease and what the cure is because they are asleep... dreaming religious dreams..yes... it's a metaphor however I think it's very close to the truth.

In essence we have nothing to worry about.Everything is working toward a purpose that will happen.The details are so far beyond mankinds comprehension it is futile for us to be told.It starts with faith however that is not the purpose.The purpose is knowing.We will all know God.The following is a metaphor that Yahoshua used.

First everyone will walk down their path that converges with the wide road that leads to the wide gate of destruction.That is where religion is destroyed(it's a process not an event). Then they enter onto the straight and narrow path that leads to the straight and narrow gate that opens into the green pasture infinite field.Yahoshua called this the kingdom of God that is IN your midst.It is in your midst right now growing as a seed and will grow into a Kingdom where God lives.

This isn't mysticism like christ consciousness or anything religious like that.That fact is and has always been and always will be ....God is doing it ALL!We can do NOTHING of ourselves.When that is revealed (unveiled) it will be known it could be no other way....Nothing is as it seems.Mankind is barely at the zygote stage of growth.There is nothing to fear ...EVERYTHING is in Gods very capable hands...and that is the good news.

reply to post by Rex282

Lovely post. quick question though. where do you think we would be right now if religion hadn't become doctrine. do you think that humanity may have reached that type one civilization a couple hundered years earlier?

reply to post by Wandering Scribe


I mean that is just one example of a family that happens to be extremely religous and controlling. Not all people who believe are control freaks.

reply to post by truthofnitrous


Again I think in the case of the poor girl with controlling parents the main problem is that they are controlling. Im willing to bet even if they were not religious they would still be controlling and find other ways to be so.

reply to post by miniatus

Due to the fact that there is no hard concrete provable evidence supporting either side of the religious debate, Bill Maher's certainty that he is correct is just as "irrational" as the certainty Christians have that we are correct. He calls having religious faith a "bondage," but how exactly does it restrict us? It makes me, at least, a much more honest and forgiving person than I would be without it; therefore, my religious faith has made the world a better place because, ohhhh, could I be evil if I wanted to be, and many people in my past would've suffered greatly without the firm resolve to not be vindictive that the Golden Rule has instilled in me. Sure, some people misuse it, but any tool can destroy or construct. Religion gives violent people justification for their violent behavior (misusing religious faith), and it motivates peaceful people to be as loving as they can (the proper use for religious faith). Even if it's a mis-belief, religion is still improving life on earth, on average.

So why do atheists like Bill Maher spend so much time trying to convince believers not to believe, then? What would they gain if every Christian stopped believing? They would "gain" more strife in society, nothing more, because the violent people would simply find something else to justify their violence (for example, Israel and Palestine's conflict would be solely about land rights with no religious context, but no different otherwise). Seems to me like their desire to be right is their primary concern, not that they want to help us or anything. We disagree, and therefore, we must be opposed because they demand to be the ones who were correct all along (even though it can never be proven, either way). The actual issue at hand isn't the real issue; it's an issue of who does the controlling, who has the power, whose influence wins out. Ego versus ego.

It also, of course, makes Bill a whole lotta money... but surely that isn't his main concern. Right?

So does it really matter whether we believe Biblical prophecy? If it's going to happen, it's going to happen, no matter how much you try to convince us it isn't going to happen. And if it's not going to happen, our belief that it will happen hinders us how, exactly? What harm does that belief do society? A good, honest, loving person wouldn't try to make Revelation come true; therefore, anyone who does try it (GWB?) isn't really a Christian, they're just pretending to be, and they'd have still been a murderous dick if the Bible had never existed. And then the event we believed would happen will happen. So, to summarize:

If it never happens, then religious beliefs caused no actual harm at all. Atheists simply wasted their time trying to make us stop believing it. And they'll never be proven actually right or wrong, because at every given moment anywhere in the future, it could still suddenly happen... and then they'd be wrong. They only win the debate when our sun finally burns out, in a few billion years. Apparently they're willing to wait that long... but why bother??

If it does happen, well, it's not like you had no warning. You could've prepared yourself for it, been ready, your belief would have had a positive effect on both your life and your afterlife. And when you do see it happen, you will suddenly find yourself believing it too, won't you? You kind of won't have a choice then... but it'll be too late to save you. "If only I'd been a little more open-minded!" you'll yell into your face-palm, but the Rapture left you behind... just so you could be right. So you could be correct. So you could "win." Would it be worth it?

The Bible's right, or it's wrong, but whatever the future really holds, it doesn't depend on the outcome of that debate. So why are so many people so intent on having it?

NoahScape
reply to post by warriorscholar81

 

The danger is when people such as Bush and Cheney get to be so powerfull that it goes to their heads and they begin to believe that THEY are the ones who have been ASSIGNED BY GOD to "bring on the apocalypse".

See above. It isn't religion that makes such people dicks; they were already dicks who decided to use religion to justify their dickishness. Do video games or rap music or The A-Team make people violent? No. Violent people are simply violent; their own personality is the cause. If religion wasn't around, they'd just find something else. Religion is not to blame; to those people, it's only an excuse. To the rest of us, it's something completely different.

BobAthome
reply to post by Tardacus

 

"because god is going to do what he wants no matter what. " well actually for about 6000 years, no he hasn't ,not completely directly in your face kind of thing.
but he's gonna.
before we all kill ourselves apparently.
or he might just ,,,naw he made a promise,, a covenant so too speak,,,a new and everlasting covenent,so they say.

love it!! well said, wish i could give two stars (old school ATS thumbs up)

olaru12
reply to post by warriorscholar81

 

If biblical prophecy is true then it must and will be fullfilled, correct?

From my Bible studies I find the Book of Revelations to be the Book of prophecy.

You understand "Revelations"? Tell us your truth, because there are a million interpretations.

actually its called the book of REVELATION its not plural.its not a series of revelations its a single revelation that god gave to jesus to reveal to the world through john.

dont mean to sound like a smartass

god bless