If biblical prophecy is true then it must and will be fullfilled, correct?

warriorscholar81
reply to post by miniatus

 

A friendly challenge for you, Find one instance where Christ is directly quoted as saying something encouraging immorality. If and you won't find that instance convince me why it would be a bad thing to try to be like a guy who has only ever said positive things that if we all followed the world would be a better place. Whether he was fictional or not the message doesn't change.

First and foremost, I've never had so many responses to a comment so thank you, I think.. but it's late and I cannot respond to all of you.. I responded to this one not knowing what it was.. reading it now..

I'm not a christ supporter so I'm not sure if you really intended to mean this to me.. I'm actually among those that aren't even convinced he even existed to be quite honest... My PERSONAL view is that the bible is a fictional set of morality tales.. but that's another discussion..

reply to post by miniatus


That is where you are wrong Christ is the guy who stepped in front of a ostracized prostitute and saved her from death by telling the angry mob " let he who is without sin cast the first stone" basically making the mob feel guilty and ashamed at their own animalistic behaviour. Your totally missing the point here guy.

Deny777
reply to post by miniatus

 

See, I have nothing against people believing whatever they want to believe, but how is this guy different from fanatic religious types as he passionately tries to shove his atheistic ideas down other people's throats?

"I have nothing against people believing whatever they want to believe" Bill is just putting his beliefs out there, if people end up believing it you should be OK.

warriorscholar81
reply to post by miniatus

 

I used to like Bill but now I realize he is nothing but a sock puppet shill. Still a very articulate and intelligent guy though.

He is .. which is why I don't like him, yet he did yield valid points .. he even has high members of the roman catholic church admitting much of it is bull..

Honestly I truly believe religion will lead to our end.. if our end is to happen.. if it's not religion, which my bet is on in first place.. it will be corporate interests ..business trying to squeeze the last cent out of us .. and ultimately.. it could be a combination of both.

Our only hope is to accept realism .. but this forum is evidence enough that we love fantasy far too much..

just my thoughts

reply to post by Deny777


Agreed, knowledge and understanding is true power

miniatus

Deny777
reply to post by miniatus

 

See, I have nothing against people believing whatever they want to believe, but how is this guy different from fanatic religious types as he passionately tries to shove his atheistic ideas down other people's throats?

It's all dangerous.. ultimately we have to accept our society that we live in .. popular vote.. the problem is with religion is it imposes a death sentence if you don't and it actively encourages you to impose your beliefs on others.. and in the case of extremist beliefs.. kill the non believers.. I have no problem with religion .. I think it can co-exist with non-believers.. but there's the violent sects that firmly believe non-believers are a plague.. not only them, but anyone who does not believe what they believe.. arrogance x 100,000% at least

Fanaticism and forcing one's beliefs upon others isn't healthy, be it religious or atheistic, that was my point. As long as faith and religious practice helps turn people into better human beings I think it's useful, but as soon as it turns into a violent crusade it loses all validity IMHO. In most cases religion isn't bad or violent in itself, it's the human ego and its thirst for power and dominance over others that takes over and twists religion into a tool for satisfying private interests. You can still find a lot of amazing and good hearted religious people, unfortunately it's the other extreme that stands out.

minkmouse

Deny777
reply to post by miniatus

 

See, I have nothing against people believing whatever they want to believe, but how is this guy different from fanatic religious types as he passionately tries to shove his atheistic ideas down other people's throats?

"I have nothing against people believing whatever they want to believe" Bill is just putting his beliefs out there, if people end up believing it you should be OK.

Absolutely.. I can't be right, neither could he.. it's all guess work .. but I do agree with him at least in the fact that being lazy and LEAVING it to religion and simply backing what we think we're supposed to do.. is foolish and destructive... it means we give up and we're going to just feed a preconceived notion.. self fulfilling prophecy..

reply to post by miniatus


Interesting point, did you know that according to a fictional book as you say, Christ was strongly against loaning money for usury or interest?

warriorscholar81
reply to post by miniatus

 

Interesting point, did you know that according to a fictional book as you say, Christ was strongly against loaning money for usury or interest?

The Christ I love is the one that believed that the kingdom of god was not a church of stone, but the kingdom of god is within us all.. that would be paraphrased from the gospel of st. thomas .. not a widely accepted gospel .. while it is indeed my favorite gospel .. I am admittedly an .. agnostic, leaning atheist .. I still am a bible scholar .. it's something that interests me to end.. especially for the psychological aspects ( psychology is where I got my degree, but who hasn't )

reply to post by miniatus


You see, that is what intellectual conversation leads to. Some sort of middle ground, I agree with the first part of your statement and that is my point. There are too many self proclaimed christians that miss the point entirely. Im talking about the people that angrily wave there fingers at others and say " you have to be like this or that in order to be a good person". They seem to forget that is why lucifer was cast out in the first place, for wanting to force people to be a certain way and demand their loyalty as opposed to asking and hoping for it.

minkmouse

Deny777
reply to post by miniatus

 

See, I have nothing against people believing whatever they want to believe, but how is this guy different from fanatic religious types as he passionately tries to shove his atheistic ideas down other people's throats?

"I have nothing against people believing whatever they want to believe" Bill is just putting his beliefs out there, if people end up believing it you should be OK.

Hey, it's all good by me, I was just pointing out the irony of a guy demonizing religion by using the same artifacts of fanatic religious preaching. I mean, generalizations like "religion is dangerous" with such assertiveness remind me so much of religious preaching it's even funny

reply to post by Deny777


You know what really kills me about BM is that he is a rabid fanatic for gun control yet admittedly owns firearms. I guess he is special being wealthy and all, it actually makes me laugh more than grimace.

Well it's late and I'm tired so Im going wish everyone a pleasant evening and I will check back in tommorow.

reply to post by warriorscholar81

If biblical prophecy is true then it must and will be fullfilled, correct?

It depends entirely on your definition of two words: "true" and "fullfilled".

Does "true" mean "its gonna happen on some day we can point to on a calendar (eventually)" or does it mean "this is an allegory for events that happen in greater or lesser degree to everyone, all the time, and in all ages" or does it mean "this is a coded reference to something that has already happened"?

Does "fullfilled" mean "this is exactly what will happen in actuality and in exact detail" or does it mean "the situation will surely FEEL like this is what is happening, it will really feel this bad or good, and the result with really be this bad or good and we really need to learn from it" or does it mean "this is a coded reference to something that has already happened"?

There are probably a few other completely different meanings those words could take on that would provide satisfactory answers.

It isn't hard to prophecy about wars, famines, political upheaval. When I was 12 years old, I prophecised that Americans would die in the effort to go to the moon. To my anguish, I was proven right. I happen to think that was a harder prediction to make than 'there will be war and it will be horrible'. But I don't see anyone banging down my door to make more prophecy (thank goodness).

i think you`re right,I`ve often wondered why christians even bother to pray since gods will be done. no matter what they pray for it`s not going to happen if it isn`t part of gods will.
gods going to do what he wants to do and no amount of praying is going to cause him to change his mind.
when you look at that way then praying is a waste of time.

people even pray for gods will to be done in the lords prayer:

Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done in earth,
As it is in heaven.

but then jesus says:

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

so which is it? is god going to do his will or is he going to do what we ask him to do?

If we control gods will merely by asking him to do something and then he does it then he isn`t all powerful.If god`s will is done regardless of what we want or ask of him then praying is a waste of time because god is going to do what he wants no matter what.

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


can you show me just when and where the bible has "been written and rewritten over and over again" and what was changed considering the hebrew scribes were extreeeemly meticulous with rigid rules that were followed religiously and also the dead sea scrools which are some of the oldest copies of these manuscipts we have match letter for letter the current manuscripts such as 'codex recieptus' and the septeuagent.

i will be very surprised if you could even if you tried which i doubt you will(please do)

actually if you do your homework you'll find that with all the opponents of the bible out there ,to this day it has never been disproven on the contrary history books have had to be rewritten(talking about rewriting things ) to match up with the bible ( jericho, the hittites, and many others.

i sincerely hope i have inspired you to do some digging.
cheers

reply to post by miniatus


you dont believe christ exIsted!?!

you do realize he is attested to by many extra biblical sources?( including anti christian sources eg.rome and others

also do you think all who were hunted and killed directly after his death would have given their life (people with families, children and everything to live for) for a "story on morality" not written yet??

if you cant answer these questions it will be assumed you have realized your error and are on your knees praying furiously to the god of abraham isaac and jacob who created you.....lol!

reply to post by Tardacus


"because god is going to do what he wants no matter what. " well actually for about 6000 years, no he hasn't ,not completely directly in your face kind of thing.
but he's gonna.
before we all kill ourselves apparently.
or he might just ,,,naw he made a promise,, a covenant so too speak,,,a new and everlasting covenent,so they say.

Such an interesting contrast between your OP and your signature.

On topic: I have no choice but to believe. I was raised baptist and did the whole works many times a week usually against my will. Much didn't make since, mostly the fables. It didn't help my step-father was an unloving, racist hypocrite religious fanatic. Yeah you get the jist....overalls and a big red beard to boot. That experience made me disbelieve if not down right hate God.

I moved on to other things and studied other beliefs including New Age, and Eastern to a limited degree. I've searched, if discounted, I searched some more, I discounted but in the end there is no mistaking his presence.

Either that or the universe simply just conspires.


Figures, this post would be 666 synchronicity or .......

reply to post by warriorscholar81

If biblical prophecy is true then it must and will be fullfilled, correct?

From my Bible studies I find the Book of Revelations to be the Book of prophecy.

You understand "Revelations"? Tell us your truth, because there are a million interpretations.