The ''Pristine Assad'' Fallacy

There seems to be a common belief (yes, it's a belief) that the rebels in Syria are actually the bad guys. Maybe they are - we cannot really be sure. We rely on second-hand information (Youtube videos, etc.), and we tell ourselves that Assad is a victim here.

Unless we are there, physically, how can we make assertions who is who in this conflict? Yes, there is foreign ''help'' to various parties of the conflict, but preaching the rebels are the evil ones seems to be about feigning expertise to the outside world.

None of us are experts, unless we have the necessary credentials. Otherwise, we are merely interpreting what - we are told - is happening.

Even (supposedly) free-thinkers, like David Icke, are falling for the same rigid thought pattern. Don't they see it, or are they so blinded by their own views, that a genuine analysis no longer matters? If that's the case, how are they different from the mainstream?

Just a thought for you to consider.

reply to post by FlowThruSpace


This whole issue doesn't really have anything to do with Assad. That's what everyone realizes. It's not about whether he's good or bad or even an alien from a distant galaxy. To think of it in those terms is to miss the point about what is actually going on in the middle east and within our own government.

The war has been planned for a long time. Somewhere around 90% of the public opposes attacking Syria. And, it's not because anyone loves Assad. This is a petro-dollar war. Read the other articles that go more in depth on the subject. There's a great quick history of the situation that has like 200 and something flags up. It's a great place to see why the cw incident has nothing to do with what's going on. (and is quite possibly a false flag anyhow)

reply to post by pirhanna


If it has been planned for a long time and is a petro dollar war then the surrendering of chemical weapons won't amount to a hill of beans over time. They'll just have to paint Syria with a bigger "Ugly" brush further down the road because if it's planned for the reason cited, It's ON at some point, just not this time!

reply to post by FlowThruSpace


I agree with the premise of your thread for the most part, but I don't think it's fair to say we are interpreting what we are "being told". Many of us are interpreting what we are seeing with our own two eyes via youtube. Could some of that be faked? Absolutely. Much of it however, is very real, and depicts a very scary reality on the ground in Syria. I've said it a thousand times and I'll say it again: Assad is certainly no angel, but his barbarism pales in comparison to some of the terrorists (yes, they are terrorists) he is fighting.

We've all seen the footage or at least read about it: Rebel fighter eats the heart of his victim. That's just the tip of the iceberg. There is a number of videos that have been posted on youtube which have depicted unthinkable atrocities committed by the "rebel" forces. People being beheaded, children being encouraged to mutilate dead bodies with machetes, people being publicly executed for religious reasons, and even "rebel forces" blowing up mosques so that they could blame it on government forces later. I hate the idea of picking the lesser of two evils in almost any situation, but the consequences for both the Syrian people and the middle east if some of the more radical rebel forces come to power are much worse than if Assad remains long enough to put down the uprising.

That is ultimately the goal, and I doubt he will step down (nor do many Syrians want him to) until his country is under control again, and the foreign jihadists have been expelled. None of that makes Assad "the good guy" in all of this, it's just the reality of the situation.

reply to post by minkmouse


Yes, that's exactly what I was saying in another thread.
The chemical weapons are not the real issue (there is actual proof of the "rebels" using cw). This war is going to happen. Maybe they delay it while they try to manipulate the public opinion. Maybe they arm the "rebels" with super advanced weaponry. Maybe they realize they need a larger false flag.

But they will figure out a way to have their war.

reply to post by pirhanna


Well I'm certainly no expert but I think someone has been trying to derail the whole ME train for a while now so it comes as no surprise. Since Arab spring I've had a feeling that some big ball has been put into play.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

That is ultimately the goal, and I doubt he will step down (nor do many Syrians want him to) until his country is under control again, and the foreign jihadists have been expelled. None of that makes Assad "the good guy" in all of this, it's just the reality of the situation.

That's about my feelings here as well. I actually would like to see Assad go and have felt that way for quite some time before this all started. The start of the Arab Spring looked spontaneous. It looked legit....I hoped it would get around to Syria at that point. Until it did. Then I saw what wanted to replace him was worse. Much worse.

I seem to recall by other threads, you're also one who has watched this from the start? Like you said, a lot of us have been watching YouTube and the Rebel released still photos from their cameras on places like Cryptome pretty much from day 1 with the protests.... Seems so long ago now, huh?

FlowThruSpace
None of us are experts, unless we have the necessary credentials. Otherwise, we are merely interpreting what - we are told - is happening.

Credentials are all good and well, but I don't think they really make anyone an expert. I think it's a fallacy to take a supposed expert at their word. Especially when you take the past 12 years of U.S. foreign policy into consideration. I don't think a detailed explanation in regards to that needs to be made to this crowd.The real issue with this Syrian CW incident is the fact that once again we, as a whole, are being denied access to the supposed hard evidence that is claimed to be there. You hear all this talk about how it's incontrovertible that the Assad regime was responsible for this attack, yet when it's time to provide the evidence everyone claiming it was Assad becomes evasive. Means of national security is a nice little lever to have if you want to do mischief and keep the general public from knowing about it.The public doesn't have the evidence, so they have to use logic in what they see. And from what is seen it makes absolutely no sense for Assad to have committed the act. The whole premise is completely illogical, despite what "experts" are saying. Unlike Iraq, where you had the shadow of 9-11 dictating the public emotion, you now have popular sentiment not being dictated by emotion, but rather by logic.

wrabbit2000
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

That is ultimately the goal, and I doubt he will step down (nor do many Syrians want him to) until his country is under control again, and the foreign jihadists have been expelled. None of that makes Assad "the good guy" in all of this, it's just the reality of the situation.

That's about my feelings here as well. I actually would like to see Assad go and have felt that way for quite some time before this all started. The start of the Arab Spring looked spontaneous. It looked legit....I hoped it would get around to Syria at that point. Until it did. Then I saw what wanted to replace him was worse. Much worse.

I seem to recall by other threads, you're also one who has watched this from the start? Like you said, a lot of us have been watching YouTube and the Rebel released still photos from their cameras on places like Cryptome pretty much from day 1 with the protests.... Seems so long ago now, huh?

Yes sir, I have been keeping a very close eye on the Syrian crisis from the start (and the arab spring in general). It's unfortunate that the issue has developed to where it is today. I was also hoping to see Assad make concessions to protesters, unfortunately the escalations only became worse and outside forces (primarily Saudi) have done their best to make things even worse.

FlowThruSpace
There seems to be a common belief (yes, it's a belief) that the rebels in Syria are actually the bad guys. Maybe they are - we cannot really be sure. We rely on second-hand information (Youtube videos, etc.), and we tell ourselves that Assad is a victim here.

Unless we are there, physically, how can we make assertions who is who in this conflict? Yes, there is foreign ''help'' to various parties of the conflict, but preaching the rebels are the evil ones seems to be about feigning expertise to the outside world.

None of us are experts, unless we have the necessary credentials. Otherwise, we are merely interpreting what - we are told - is happening.

Even (supposedly) free-thinkers, like David Icke, are falling for the same rigid thought pattern. Don't they see it, or are they so blinded by their own views, that a genuine analysis no longer matters? If that's the case, how are they different from the mainstream?

Just a thought for you to consider.

No one is saying Assad is "pristine." This is an exaggeration.

What people are saying is that Assad didn't gas civilians while the UN was watching him and while the US was looking for an excuse to remove him from power, just like Hussein and Qaddafi. And the burden of proof is on the people who say that he did. Innocent until proven guilty. And if he's innocent, then the group of people trying to overthrow him are the ones who did the gassing, so yes, that makes them evil.

No, none of us were there, but at some point, you have to take somebody's word for something, unless you plan to only believe things that you personally, physically witness.

reply to post by Snsoc

And if he's innocent, then the group of people trying to overthrow him are the ones who did the gassing, so yes, that makes them evil.

There's always the chance that Assad's regime used the weapons without his permission. Based on intelligence reports, it looks like they had been asking Assad for fourth months for permission to use them.

In the meanwhile, it looks like there are talks about Russia convincing Assad to let an international crew gather up chemical weapons in Syria and destroy them as an alternative to a strike.

What do you think? You think Assad will allow an international oversight team to come in and round up his chemical weapons?