Are we vulnerable to an invasion?

Originally posted by enomus
people have thought about the threats of jets flying into buildings via terrorist attacks...do a little research, the idea didn't sprout into existence with 9/11...there were reports warning of this from here in the states to around the world prior to 9/11.

I'm talking about you, not the CIA, who still failed to protect us from such an attack anyway. You never thought about it, did you? It was a huge surprise for most of America. I hate to say it, but you're in for some more nasty surprises.

This theory just doesn't hold water

It's not a theory. It's a hypothetical scenario. One similar to those that our enemies sit around thinking up all day long, constantly. The thing is, I'll bet they're much more devious than I am.


[edit on 12-11-2004 by Damned]

Damned, imagination is good, but only when it is checked by common sense. There are too many variables in your plan to make it valid. Too many things would have to be executed perfectly and in complete secrecy to make it work. Unfortunately, there is something called "Murphy's Law", which would make such a conspiracy almost certain to fail.
The point is, such a scenario is very, very unlikely to occur. Which means that an invasion of the US is unlikely to occur.

Originally posted by Damned
Most likely, judging by what's happening today, we'd nuke the wrong country before we found out who was really responsible anyway. With a good portion of our forces in the mideast, I don't think we're very well covered on our own soil.

Maybe so, but we have a heck of a lot of nukes. I doubt we'd use them all up right away. As for how well covered we are on our own soil, as someone else already pointed out in this thread the majority of our troops at any given time are on US soil. The forces in the middle east are around 15% of our military. And something for you to consider - keeping that 15% over there is stretching our resources pretty thin - a principle which would apply to any foreign nation attempting to invade us as well.

Who says the invasion would take place immediately? Maybe they'd play it smart and see what we think and do? I swear, you have no imagination.
You just think everyone is so deathly afraid of our nukes that they won't mess with us. I disagree.

Depends on what you mean by "mess with us." If it means "invade the US," then I think I'm right and you're wrong. And I'd say it's you who lack imagination, since you seem incapable of putting yourself in the place of the foreign leader who is making this decision and really weighing the risk/reward equation involved. Again I'll ask - why did the Soviets never invade us? They were a far better match militarily to us than anyone is today.

OTOH, nations "mess with us" all the time in less direct ways, and I certainly anticipate that this won't change.

I also doubt that the US would be very organized, if several nukes went off here. We'd all be devastated, including the leaders and military. Who the hell is going to launch the nukes if they take out DC and various other strategic military and political targets? The average joe blow has no idea how to launch a nuke.

Huh? How did "joe blow" get into this? Our nuclear weapons are all in the hands of very highly trained people who know perfectly well how to launch them.

Do you think whatever soldiers are underground in the silos are just going to take it upon themselves to launch them at whoever they think may be responsible?

No, I didn't say that. I said that it would be an enormous leap of faith on the part of any potential attacker to be absolutely sure that we wouldn't, in one way or another, eventually figure out their involvement and retaliate. So long as a significant part of opur nuclear arsenal remained in our military's hands, that risk would remain.

You're gravely underestimating the chaos this would cause here. And domestic guns aren't going to help against military grade weapons, nor unknown enemies.

No, I understand perfectly well the kind of chaos which would occur. But once again, you fail to unserstand that my argument is entirely aimed at the decision making process which would lead a foreign nation to decide that an attack like this was worth the risk.

As for "domestic guns", I don't recall saying anything about that at all.

Originally posted by Damned
I'm talking about you, not the CIA, who still failed to protect us from such an attack anyway.

You never thought about it, did you? It was a huge surprise for most of America. I hate to say it, but you're in for some more nasty surprises.

I wasn't surprised, except by our very slow air defense response.

But then I was apparently the only one who actually read that Tom Clancy novel, I guess.

Originally posted by x_y_no
I wasn't surprised, except by our very slow air defense response.

But then I was apparently the only one who actually read that Tom Clancy novel, I guess.

It was a let down, wasn't it? And here most of America was thinking we'd be prepared for almost anything, anytime. That was pretty far from the truth. Which novel is that? I don't guess I've read it.

Originally posted by Damned

Originally posted by x_y_no
I wasn't surprised, except by our very slow air defense response.

But then I was apparently the only one who actually read that Tom Clancy novel, I guess.

It was a let down, wasn't it? And here most of America was thinking we'd be prepared for almost anything, anytime. That was pretty far from the truth. Which novel is that? I don't guess I've read it.

Ah, hell, can't remember the title just now. It was the one about Japan building nukes, and we go in and take them out. There's a little mini-war, and at the end (after the war is over) a Japanese pilot crashes a 747 into the Capitol, wiping out Congress and the President.

Edit: "Debt of Honor"

[edit on 11/12/2004 by x_y_no]

Japan does have pretty good reason to nuke us, don't they?

Back to the topic of invasion. There is NO comparison between an invasion and a nuclear war. Sure, some crazy guy with a bad hair do might decide to supply a terrorist org. with a nuke or two and they may be able to detonate it in the U.S..
This does NOT equal an invasion by any means.

As for the little quip about "domestic guns" not being able to defend us?
You obviously have no idea how many guns there are in private hands in this country. Even if only 20% of the gun owners in this country were to rise up against any invading force you would be looking at a standing army of sixteen million very well armed people (17.5 guns each).
Where are you going to find an invading force to counter that?

[edit on 12-11-2004 by Fry2]

Originally posted by Fry2
Back to the topic of invasion. There is NO comparison between an invasion and a nuclear war. Sure, some crazy guy with a bad hair do might decide to supply a terrorist org. with a nuke or two and they may be able to detonate it in the U.S..
This does NOT equal an invasion by any means.

As for the little quip about "domestic guns" not being able to defend us?
You obviously have no idea how many guns there are in private hands in this country. Even if only 20% of the gun owners in this country were to rise up against any invading force you would be looking at a standing army of sixteen million very well armed people (17.5 guns each).
Where are you going to find an invading force to counter that?

That's not even an issue against military grade weapons. You've seen what big caliber shells can do, haven't you? What, do you think someone is going to invade the US with AK47's only? Even an AK47 is quite a match for a handgun, shotgun, or deer hunting rifle. Not to mention, the average gun owners probably aren't the greatest shot, either. Many have guns, but don't really use them often. I'm afraid all of our guns aren't going to help much at all, in an invasion scenario. America wouldn't suddenly become an inpenetrable army of one.

I know that Americans as a whole would unite as one, as proven after 9/11. But if the invading forces meant business as they surely would, I see a grim future. As I've stated previously, it is China more than any other nation that scares me in the short term future. It is apparent with their recent history that they are planning for such an attack, even if they do not act upon it.

Not to mention, the average gun owners probably aren't the greatest shot, either. Many have guns, but don't really use them often.

you, my friend, obviously do not live in the south.

Originally posted by enomus

Not to mention, the average gun owners probably aren't the greatest shot, either. Many have guns, but don't really use them often.

you, my friend, obviously do not live in the south.

Hell, I live in "Yankee" Connecticut and I go to the handgun range at least twice a month. I have property in the mountains that I visit on weekends in the summer to do most of my rifle and shotgun target practice. Don't assume that you know the gun owners in this country if you don't actually have experience with all of us. Contrary to popular liberal thought, the great majority of us are well educated and have no desire to hurt anyone if we don't have to.

I'm sure China does have invasion plans, just as we have plans to invade China. Every major country has plans to deal with all imaginable scenarios, even if these scenarios are unlikely to be happen.

Originally posted by superdude
With so much of our military focus on the Mid East right now, are we vulnerable to an invasion.

Nah, I think we�re pretty safe. Norway still have plenty of soldiers back home in "Festung Norwegen". No immidiate danger of any invasion in Norway at the moment. Should anyone try to invade us by sea, they�re going to say hello to Mr. Penguin here first (picture)...

EDIT: Forgot the link.
Penguin MK2 MOD7 � Anti-Ship Cruise Missile
The "NSM � Naval Strike Missile" will be pretty nice too. Have to wait until 2007 for that one though...

[edit on 2004/11/12 by Hellmutt]

Okay how about this scenerio....
Before china invades the US this is what they have to do to succesfully accomplish the job.
First they must knock out all of the US's radar and there Satallites plus they must destroy all of the sensors they have in the Atlantic and Pacific that is used to track ships.All of this has to happen at the same time so the US would not know what the hell hit them.Some of the Technology used in this first strike are Laser's to destroy satalites,EMP waves to fry the computer systems used in the sensors in the Atlantic and the Pacific precision guided balistic missiles to knock out key communication facilitys inside the US. Then they would invade Guam,Hawaii,Japan and the Pacific fleet at the same time. The reasons they need Guam and Hawaii is to use them as bases to refule and stage there main assult on the West coast of the US Then they would also need to totally destroy Australia and Japan for Defensive purposses. While the US is scrambling the rest of there Naval Fleet from the Atlantic to head to the Panama cannal to reach the Pacific India would completely Smash the Remainder of there fleet in the Indian ocean and surrunding nations also Russia would role through Europe to Crush Britain and France. Germany realy cant do anything neither can Italy. Then In Latin America Brazil will have blockaded most of the southern atlantic destroying anything that comes in between africa and south america tightening the grip around the US. Canada will stay out of it cause of the economic gain they would get out of this. Then Imagine Thousands of Ships not neccisaraly military boats but cargo vissels pack with blood thursty chinese men swarming the beaches of california,oregan and washington while up above hundreds of thousands of paratroopers jump behind the US front line cutting them off from the rest of the country while setting up a second front to gain more ground for there comrades on the beach front to meet them in the middle. All of this has to happen with in a week for it to successfully work out smoothley if it takes any longer then it would be harder to accomplish and more civilian cassualties would be lost.

The country is under constant invasion. Have you not heard of illegal immigration or 9/11?

Of course, we've all heard of that. However most of the illegals to date are coming to make a better life for themselves, as well as their families. This thread is about an invasion force. I believe that the forces are more than 2/3 in place in Cananda and Mexico to do just that. Add the fac that China's building he largest cargo depot in the world less than 200 miles off the coast of the USA, and there is truly a reason to worry. They are very upset with the USA over oue Taiwan policy. Do not take this lightly my fellow Americans!

Originally posted by superdude
Of course, we've all heard of that. However most of the illegals to date are coming to make a better life for themselves, as well as their families. This thread is about an invasion force.

If a million happy-go-lucky hyper-active job-seeking Mexicans can sneak across the border in just a few months, what's to stop a few hundred terrorists? We need to stop thinking in terms of "symmetrical warfare." An invasion force, as you envision, would not be the first wave. That kind of force would only come in after the fabric of society had been rent asunder.


[edit on 04/11/12 by GradyPhilpott]

The possiblity of America being invaded has more to do with the capabilities of the enemy than those of America. During parts of the cold war, American defense against a Soviet invasion would have called for a stand at the Rockies- this was at the height of American defensive spending and preparation. It is definately possible for a foe to set foot on American soil.

America is forunate though to occupy a very defensible position on the planet though, and we compliment this with outstanding strategic positioning.

America's first defense is obviously the sea. The movement of large forces to the American continent, and the supply/maintance of them in the face of American airpower and submarine forces is problematic, but nothing is impossible.

Once an enemy lands on American soil, they are likely to be allowed a certain amount of advance (especially in the West) and then face an American stand at a major mountain range or river (we sort of have our choice of those from either coast... it's nice.) Again this can be overcome, but it is a challenge and would aid the defense.

If I were leading a superpower with the intention of eventually invading the United States, my goal would be to gain air bases for advanced aircraft in Cuba, and to install a puppet in Mexico. The open door to America is from the South. I'd want to start in Cuba and Mexico- first target is Florida, followed by a push North into Texas/the plains, with the ability to either land additional forces in the east, or in Texas to push West for Southern CA as the situation dictated.

A highly unlikely but strategically preferable scenario.

Case and point. These are the times where the great ones shine, and the over confident fall. I for one do not want the complacency of my fellow coutrymen to overwhelm us. Remember how we all felt after 9/11? Even the fellow countrymen I couldn't stomach were my brothers, and I would have died for them. The Star Spangled Banner brought tears to everyones eyes. We looked at our Police and Fire Fighters with respect rather than contempt. Remember this my fellow Americans. I love this country. I LOVE IT. But do not for one single second think we can't be invaded. Our biggest enemy - OUR BIGGEST ENEMY - is ourselves if we don't look out for the potential threats around us. They do WANT to take us out - don't EVER think otherwise.