DO you think return of Draft in the event of another World War, involving Russia and/or China?

I want to know what you think.

I've seen old threads, more than a couple years of people saying what it would take for themselves personally to be apart of it.

What i wanna know, is if you think a draft would happen in that scenario.

Question: Did you just wake up from a coma you slipped in during the 80s?

WWIII? Russia?

No my friend, I am sorry, the idea of a third world war if current trends continue is becoming an ever increasing impossibility. World governments are to intertwined economically to risk their investments in each other with something as bloody as a world war.

Currently the world is working on fundamentally changing the middle east and disrupting the idea of stable governance in the region. The reason for this of course is easier, cheaper, access to oil reserves. Once the world has completely drained every drop of crude from the middle east, it will be discarded and left to rot.

Leaving of course bitter, and abandoned fundamentalists in it's wake creating an ever present "danger" of terrorist attacks, thereby allowing countries in the west to continue to pass draconian laws ostensibly for "security" and thus gain more control over their people.

All leading to a one world government, ran by the super wealthy corporations, with little to no input from the masses.

Welcome to the new millennium.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Question: Did you just wake up from a coma you slipped in during the 80s?
. World governments are to intertwined economically to risk their investments in each other with something as bloody as a world war.

Currently the world is working on fundamentally changing the middle east and disrupting the idea of stable governance in the region. The reason for this of course is easier, cheaper, access to oil reserves. Once the world has completely drained every drop of crude from the middle east, it will be discarded and left to rot.

Leaving of course bitter, and abandoned fundamentalists in it's wake creating an ever present "danger" of terrorist attacks, thereby allowing countries in the west to continue to pass draconian laws ostensibly for "security" and thus gain more control over their people.

All leading to a one world government, ran by the super wealthy corporations, with little to no input from the masses.

So your saying everyone is intertwined, which I know what your talking about and get, and hope will prevent bloodshed. At the same time your saying what is going on for the sake of financial gain, disrupting the governments, which is what I would see, based on the words of Russia, Could... not 100%, Could lead to conflict with them.

Which in my oppinion, if they do have China on their side on the battlefield, could easily become another World War.

Really what you have said is "it wont be it another world war because of the reasons you think would lead to a world war", without giving an oppinion on if there would be a draft if we went to war with Russian and/or China.

I do not want war, so I hope the debts we have made, are sufficient enough to make us look valuable enough to not destoy for the sake of those debts being repaid. China being the country that owns the most Us Debt.

It will never happen the UN security council has divided the world amongst themselves already, there is an EU, a China a Russia and an America. God help anyone else that isn't allied to one of the above playing their little game of good cop bad cop before the world.

How are they going to conscript an armed populace who aren't as blind as we were in the days before the internet and blind patriotism?

Well with all the media hype about getting guns registered, background checks, and all these safeguards that make it more impossible for a regular person to obtain a firearm, this seems possible.

Quick question.

How many criminals go through legal channels to obtain a firearm to be used in criminal activity anyways?

reply to post by shaukuna


The thing is China and Russia are not the best of friends, China would also be useless as a militaristic force 1000 or so miles off it's own borders due to modern warfare.

US debt to China would be wiped clean as soon as China declared war.

Draft wouldn't be needed to be used against China if they decided to condemn itself to certain demise, the US would just need to set some motions in order where it produces even bigger naval assets. All you would need to do is keep them (China) cornered onto it's own lands rendering them useless in a world war.

Unless of course a world war involved nukes then nobody will win. Other than that the only people China could effect is India and Pacific nations. It would be more of nasty regional wars than a world war then.

Same case with Russia to effect, if they declared war you would see their naval assets wiped out very quickly by an allied assault then the only people they could threaten is border nations without risking a world war (using nukes).

No sane leader or nation will risk a nuclear exchange, because the ones most capable will be the ones most targeted. Plus you don't need a draft to be painted onto the nearest wall by a nuclear blast.

That being said their is always the possibility of large scale regional wars, Syria if tomahawked could easily become a huge problem as in Turkey,Iran and Israel being dragged into it. If the UK did involve itself in attacking Syria I could see Cyprus having a chemical christmas come early... Glad they have listened to the parliament.

Originally posted by HauntWok
Question: Did you just wake up from a coma you slipped in during the 80s?

WWIII? Russia?

No my friend, I am sorry, the idea of a third world war if current trends continue is becoming an ever increasing impossibility. World governments are to intertwined economically to risk their investments in each other with something as bloody as a world war.

Currently the world is working on fundamentally changing the middle east and disrupting the idea of stable governance in the region. The reason for this of course is easier, cheaper, access to oil reserves. Once the world has completely drained every drop of crude from the middle east, it will be discarded and left to rot.

Leaving of course bitter, and abandoned fundamentalists in it's wake creating an ever present "danger" of terrorist attacks, thereby allowing countries in the west to continue to pass draconian laws ostensibly for "security" and thus gain more control over their people.

All leading to a one world government, ran by the super wealthy corporations, with little to no input from the masses.

Welcome to the new millennium.

We don't usually agree, but after reading your analysis, I'd have to say you were spot on!

The draft isn't just possible, it's almost a given and required if Syria and/or Iran are anything but "brief and limited" as the headlines read here recently.

Selective Service never stopped, so the draft registration has been running along all these years. Every American male is required to register at 18 for it.

The thing is, the first wars worked because 9/11 brought a massive wave of nationalism and patriotism at the time. I.E.... Recruitment and signup at the military offices. That's carried pretty well as there are still a good # of guys running on empty from the early days after so many deployments by now.

Where are the lines to replace the guys burning out so bad, they need out for sanity at this point? The war won't simply be called off for lack of participants. They'll simply turn on a system that was never fully turned off. No choice if it doesn't go in the absurd way they seem to imagine it going for quick, clean and few losses. (Kinda how Iraq was sold to us... over 10 years ago)

Originally posted by wrabbit2000
The draft isn't just possible, it's almost a given and required if Syria and/or Iran are anything but "brief and limited" as the headlines read here recently.

Selective Service never stopped, so the draft registration has been running along all these years. Every American male is required to register at 18 for it.

The thing is, the first wars worked because 9/11 brought a massive wave of nationalism and patriotism at the time. I.E.... Recruitment and signup at the military offices. That's carried pretty well as there are still a good # of guys running on empty from the early days after so many deployments by now.

Where are the lines to replace the guys burning out so bad, they need out for sanity at this point? The war won't simply be called off for lack of participants. They'll simply turn on a system that was never fully turned off. No choice if it doesn't go in the absurd way they seem to imagine it going for quick, clean and few losses. (Kinda how Iraq was sold to us... over 10 years ago)

That's the thing though wrabbit, no nation with the willingness to get involved has enough backing by it's citizens to do anything more than airstrikes and missile strikes. If any do happen to use airstrikes they would lose at least some pilots.

This would cause a #storm at home, respective to where you are from of course. I cannot see it pushing for more troop deployments then again I am not an American.

Would the lose of some pilots and planes be enough to push a draft that the public would support in the US or would it push it in the other direction?

To add:

The BBC is really pushing that Britain is losing face due to it's recent decisions, making out that the government has made the wrong decision without actually saying it.

reply to post by RAY1990


I think we need to keep in mind that this is an event with nearly 2 years of history now. Despite that, no one would have entertained intervention even this far without a Chen attack our own side may have been a factor in.

The CURRENT feeling is no war. So was the feeling recently. This has a LONG WAY yet to go with enough unknowns remaining to stump anyone for predictions. It's far too soon, IMO, to conclude anything. Time will tell by what the next escalation is. The FSA need outside help to not only win, but merely survive. They won't stop just because this stunt may not have been enough.

reply to post by shaukuna

I think that a draft in the U.S. would mostly fail in the event of a major war involving Russia or China or both for that matter.

If any of these countries started shooting at each other it would escalate rather quickly. Mail services, power grids would all be hampered at a minimum. So even if there was a draft, many would not even know they were drafted.

Then there is the training involved, which usually takes a minimum of three months. I can tell you that all the major bases would be attacked. Even conventional cruise missiles would do significant damage.

While the Pentagon likes to war game a lot of things, I bet they haven’t war gamed this one.

I’m thinking that best case scenario, other than people volunteering to serve you would see SF ODA’s going out into the populace and training local militias. Hell, even that would probably back fire on them.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Agreed.

We're in a period of make or break, we need to wait and see what happens. Anything is speculation up until Syria is attacked and we don't know how they or anyone else will react upon that happening.

A draft might be feasible in the public's eye if lets say Syria gassed it's neighbours or Iran stepped in and closed the Persian Gulf.

I don't know, it's crazy days. I just can't imagine a draft in the immediate future.

Originally posted by RAY1990
reply to post by shaukuna

 

Unless of course a world war involved nukes then nobody will win. Other than that the only people China could effect is India and Pacific nations. It would be more of nasty regional wars than a world war then.

Pretty much one of the fears I hope will fend off such bloodshed

However, I cannot pretend that i have the same views as people who are in position to give the ok to use such weapons.

Maybe the rightfully, or foolishly believe they will be able to destroy our nukes and centers of power if they have enough, and launch first, I simply do not know.

I really do like your reply though, hope to see more in the thread.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by RAY1990

 

I think we need to keep in mind that this is an event with nearly 2 years of history now. Despite that, no one would have entertained intervention even this far without a Chen attack our own side may have been a factor in.

The CURRENT feeling is no war. So was the feeling recently. This has a LONG WAY yet to go with enough unknowns remaining to stump anyone for predictions. It's far too soon, IMO, to conclude anything. Time will tell by what the next escalation is. The FSA need outside help to not only win, but merely survive. They won't stop just because this stunt may not have been enough.

Thing is its one thing declareing a draft and another to expectthe public to turn up like good little citizens for the slaughter.

Unless a war has public support now days a draft will be meet I think with mass civil disobieance as why fight a war that a country doesnt want or need? Maybe I have America wrong and you will all turn up blindly with stars and stripes in your eyes for the slaughter like drones without quetion. But even if thats the case do you really want armys filled with un motivated conscripts with low moral? Thats didnt work to well in the past.....

reply to post by crazyewok


I think you are right in thinking that very few fresh recruits would know what an ATS t-shirt meant or stood for in terms of people we know going onto a draft call.

However, what % are we representing among society as a whole? 5%? 10% at most?? I don't mean conspiracy theorists, as that narrows it down even more. I'll just take the % who are awake enough to have their OWN personal conviction that supports willingly taking a jail sentence vs. serving.

For far too many I see in the generation which would be at stake here? They'd never take a year or more in jail to AVOID shooting people in a way they can actually call legal! This is the same generation spawning little monsters that shoot people out for a jog..because it's boring that day and gang initiation awaits.

reply to post by wrabbit2000


When you put it that way that makes me even more depressed

Recruits of that caliber would be asking for war crimes left right and center

Hell you would get Mai Lai massacre like events every other day!

You would be training and unleashing serial killers.....

Conscription worked in WW2 as the people had morals and had a good reason to fight.

Conscription failed in Vietnam because of people not beleiving what they fought in, but some morality kept the majority in check..

Conscription will end in catastophie in the Middle east due to the above and no morals.

All of the debating regarding the "feasibility" of a WW aside... let's assume it spun wildly out of control and devolved into exactly that, a World War... Do I think there would be draft? Absolutely! Do I think it would work? Absolutely not!

Too many people are wide awake and fed up with the current administration, our government as a whole and the notion of One World Government. Those pieces of crap politicians would need to pick up the rifles themselves if they want soldiers.

they will ship off citizens and the illegals will be left to basically shape the nation as they wish.

they could take the guns while everyones gone as well. would be a lot easier.

All forward thinking aside, most in America seem to have very little worry that the government is completely against us. Although all evidence points otherwise. Now that said although the population doesn't trust the government fully they would still follow given a need arises. Lets say someone goes off half cocked and a chemical weapon Happend to land on a naval ship over there... Americans would line up ready to fight draft tickets in hand. It will take " someone " attacking our troops first to get the citizens behind the president again. If he did use missle strikes, I feel most the population would back his cause even less than the meager at best number that does now.
Essentially if we start this the draft would never work. If somehow they spun this to a " we are the victim " it's a whole new situation.

reply to post by shaukuna


It will involve not only nuclear weapons, but also chemical, biological and electronic warfare. This will reduce our civilization and the Earth to ashes. That's the doomsday scenario. Russia and China will ultimately win the war as new superpowers. Not to mention North Korea. Don't worry, it's not going to happen any time in the future.