A Participatory Eschatology - Completing the Great Work of all Ages.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Completing What Is Lacking in Christ.

I know, sounds ridiculous and absurd, but it is true that the Great Work of the Ages isn't completed until Christ's joy is complete, in us. Then and only then is the circle joined.

How difficult then, can it be?

As a Christian, is Christ's joy completed, in you?

Oh of course there is suffering, but, the more that sorrow and suffering has carved into our being the more joy we can contain.

How pathetic then, considering the degree to which Jesus did all the heavy lifting, that we are unable to complete the circle of joy?

Think about it...

Who can present the Good News of the Gospel without absolute joy, happiness and thus good humor?

Any presentation of what God has made possible in the person and Great Work of Jesus, which doesn't contain the prospect of the completion of Christ's joy, or in other words that's presented very seriously, maybe with a threat of hell thrown in and a wagging finger of should and should not - IS NOT the Gospel.

The fruits are very easy then to spot. Humorless and joyless Christians are not real Christians, or if they are true believers are unwilling to do their TINY part, to complete the Great Work of the Ages.

As a Christian, the one thing that bothers me perhaps more than anything else is the tamed, sheepish, humorless and serious "Christian" who works very very hard at being good, as if to win favor or merit, but in the process who've lost their "saltiness".

Given what we are supposed to have freely received, in spite of ourselves, how can we be without humor, and charm?

Let us therefore do our part, which amounts to nothing more or less than believing, receiving and then rejoicing, with our humor and our mirth and charm and childlike playfulness restored.

Then, when Christ's circle of joy is complete in us, perhaps someone among us might even dare, to rejoice and be truly happy, and liberated to really live even to the full and to overflowing.

An unhappy Christian, who would prefer to lecture others with the word, than to demonstrate the joy and happiness of what it really means and signifies to BE a Christian, has a LOT of work to do, but woe to them who've lost their saltiness while presuming in their self-professed "goodness" that they've inherited the kingdom of heaven, woe to them until they get the joke in the truth that will set them free.

I'm not entirely sure that this OP addresses the title, but it's a start.

Something's missing in Christendom I am convinced, and if we were to consider the Great Work of all Ages to be all but complete with just the tinniest sliver remaining, that's our work, and all it involves is completing His circle of joy.

Who then among us will dare to not only believe but also receive and on receiving, rejoice and be glad? Isn't that the POINT, that we might get to have LIFE as it was meant to be lived and enjoyed, or are we supposed to simply try to be "good Christians" and toe the line..?

The Vine and the Branches

15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

John 15
www.biblegateway.com...

OMG it's so utterly simple and so funny, and so sad too, and then even funnier still than it was sad, like the really good joke that never ends.

This is my view, that the intent of Jesus is that we might get to a turning point in an epiphany capable of bringing us first to tears of sorrow and regret and repentance and then, to tears of absolute joyful hilarity even at at our own folly and prior ignorance as we recognize the gentle loving hand that wipes away the tears from our eyes and also lifts us up and places us back on our feat from the crumbled heap and mess we'd collapsed into, and helps us up yet again when our knees buckle at the immense humor and joyful glee that is almost too much to take.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I feel like my sense of humor is being a d*ck, but I get what you mean.

I have a strong passion for a wise conversation though, that's where I feel mostly simple. Or playing with my nephews or holding my baby niece.

As for me cracking jokes... I can't say it's too jesus like lol

I am always shocked when I speak to a christian, that has no idea if they are "saved".

We work because we are saved, not to get saved.

The biggest fear a christian should face is that they are not doing enough for their fellow man, how many people are worse off in the world because Christians, are not acting like they are told to.

Jesus Was Funnier Than We Think

Why do church services seem so devoid of humor?

Why are religious people so often (fairly) characterized as gloomy?

In short, when, why and how were joy, humor and laughter removed from religion?

There are several theories about why humor may not be valued as it should be in religious circles. But ultimately, joy, humor and laughter are spiritual gifts that we ignore at our own peril.

Much of Jesus’ earthly life and ministry were about joy. But as the Quaker author Elton Trueblood points out in The Humor of Christ, because of the need to explain the suffering of Jesus, the sad parts can overwhelm the happy parts. The Gospel of John admits, “Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book.” In other words, the absence of many stories about Jesus joking or laughing is not proof that they did not occur. Most likely, Jesus laughed. To deny this is to turn Jesus into a wooden stick.

Table fellowship
Let’s look at one distinctive feature of His ministry, what scholars call “table fellowship,” that is, dining with friends. Jesus frequently called together His disciples, His followers and often strangers to dine with him. It doesn’t take too much imagination to picture these as joyful events—just think of enjoyable dinner parties and celebrations in your own life, full of laughter and good cheer, everyone delighting in one another’s company. There is a reason that one enduring image of heaven is a banquet. Maureen O’Connell, an assistant professor of theology at Fordham University, says, “At my house, we often laugh ourselves sick around the dinner table. Isn’t this the point of dinner parties?”

The Gospels reveal Jesus as a man with a palpable sense of joy and even playfulness. You can catch glimpses of this in His interactions with the men, women and children of His time as well as in many of the parables.

Indeed, it’s hard to imagine a good storyteller who doesn’t know the value of humor. Jesus probably knew that He had to “grab” His listeners. His stories were often sharp and provocative. After all, He was an itinerant preacher and so needed to attract His listeners quickly through a funny story, a clever parable or a humorous aside. Also, the constant themes of His preaching—love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you; forgive someone seventy times seven times; the kingdom of God is at hand—were so ridiculous, so incongruous, that they may at first have seemed humorous to listeners.

A sense of humor
Jesus also embraces others with a sense of humor. In the beginning of the Gospel of John, for example, comes the remarkable story of Nathaniel, who has been told by His friends that the Messiah is from Nazareth.

Nathaniel responds, “Can anything good come out of Nazareth?”
This is a joke about how insignificant the city was. Nazareth was a backwater town where only a few families lived.

Nathaniel’s humor doesn’t bother Jesus at all. In fact, it seems to delight him. “Here is truly an Israelite in whom there is no deceit!” says Jesus. In other words, here is someone I can trust. Nathaniel then becomes one of the apostles. Jesus’ welcoming of Nathaniel into His circle is perhaps the clearest indication that He had a sense of humor. (Other than the other men He chose as apostles.)

When I imagine Jesus, it is not simply as a person who heals the sick, raises the dead, stills the storm and preaches the good news. It’s also as a man of great goodwill and compassion, with a zest for life, someone unafraid of controversy, free to be who He knows Himself to be and brimming with generous good humor. Full of high spirits. Playful. Even fun.

Heresy?
Let me be more provocative and suggest that thinking about Jesus without a sense of humor may be close to heresy.

In the early church (and this is a simplification of a devilishly complex history), two camps sprang up. On the one side were those who believed that Jesus only appeared to be human. Those groups are generally called Docetists, from the Greek word dokein, meaning “to appear.” On the other were the Adoptionists, who believed that Jesus was simply a human being, not divine at all, merely the “adopted” son of God.

Frankly, I think that more than a few contemporary Christians are still “closet Docetists.” That is, although they buy into the idea of Jesus’ humanity, they are still inclined to think of Him as God simply pretending, or playacting, at being human. But if we accept the idea of Him as a human being, we must accept all human attributes for him—laughing as well as suffering.

To put it another way: What kind of a person has zero sense of humor? That’s a robot, not a person. Yet that’s the kind of one-sided image that many Christians have of Jesus. It shows up both in books and sermons and in artwork. And it has an effect on the way Christians live their lives.

Jesus must have been a clever, witty and even funny man. His humor nearly leaps off the page in some of His highly original parables in His zippy asides to the Roman authorities, in His tart replies to the scribes and the Pharisees and even in His off-the-cuff remarks. If we look at His human side, it’s hard to imagine someone being able to put up with the often spectacularly obtuse disciples without a sense of humor. If we look at His divine side, it’s hard to imagine God not smiling at some of the absurdities of the world.

So let us set aside the notion that Jesus was a humorless, grim-faced, dour, unsmiling prude. Let’s begin to recover His humor and, in the process, His full humanity.

www.relevantmagazine.com...

"Hypocrites! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel whole!"

When I read and contemplate Jesus the man I am struck by the idea that he would have been so ALIVE, so present and overflowing with charisma. In table fellowship with him, I would imagine that he had his disciples in stitches more often than not at the expense of their own ignorance/folly/absurdity, but instead of scolding them, he surely would have employed merciful yet very cutting humor.

Consider for example the often meanspirited and hard-hearted jabs of atheists, who's best attempt at humor generally amounts to little more than cynical sarcasm - what are we to DO in response? What does Jesus ask us to do, tell them they are condemned to hell, or, love them and pray for them..?

There is just so much humor in the love of God..

Maybe there's even a good joke capable of saving the whole world and that's the problem I suppose with a Christianity that generally terminates at the cross without celebrating the resurrection life on the other side of the tomb in recognition that Jesus got the last laugh and as the last who is first held the very best of the best, in reserve, for last.

Most have an image of the devil laughing an evil laughter over the torture of souls in hell, but what if God got/gets the last laugh as one capable of silencing the devil, who might groan or, like Scooby Doo, do a double take and go "Huh?"



I think the best jokes are like a paradigm-shifting epiphany at the expense of human folly and ignorance, or at the expense of things we might have preferred to keep hidden in what might be called our "willful blindspot" (can anyone detect humor in that?).

It takes great courage to laugh at the expense of the devil within, and Jesus gives us this courage imho.

There's another viewpoint regarding this idea of the humor of Christ, or what I would call the restoration of our joyful humor on account of his Great Work at the cross, but I just don't have the time right now to lay it out.

Stay tuned...

Edit to add: In anticipation, please consider everything that drains away and destroys our opportunity for good humor (and joy), which really is a manifestation of sin and evil who's first cause in time and history and the unfolding of life's story, including our own, isn't so easy to pin down and exclaim ah HA, there is where it ends and is contained..

Originally posted by benrl
I am always shocked when I speak to a christian, that has no idea if they are "saved".

We work because we are saved, not to get saved.

The biggest fear a christian should face is that they are not doing enough for their fellow man, how many people are worse off in the world because Christians, are not acting like they are told to.

We cannot REALLY give anything to our fellow man capable of inspiring him/her to better things in life that we don't already have in abundance, ourselves, which is why I'm suggesting that our work doesn't even begin until we can at least begin to complete Christ's circle of joy within ourselves, even as a joy that comes on the far side of all our sorrow and suffering. Then again, whatever might be lacking can be filled by emptying ourselves in service to others.

I just have a real hard time with "dead" or ""dry" Christians for whom it's too late to be LIT up by the living Spirit of the Living, Love of God. They can "work" until they drop and yet receive nothing or very little for all their good works.

Nothing worse than unfunny, unjoyful "Christians",. imho. (hey that was kind of funny! lol)

Re: A Participatory Eschatology

Eco-Doom or Redemption: The Mad Movement and the Sixties' Counter-Culture Project.

Care to join me, anyone?

So, for some among us the circle begins circling and the joke re-told in so many different ways, but there's a problem with traditional Christian doctrine because at some point in the final analysis how can we possibly complete the circle of joy if everyone ELSE is going to hell? We can't, obviously, so instead of walking away with a ticket to heaven, and leaving everyone else behind, we become the ticket itself and the very pearl in the gate, not by anything that we ourselves accomplished mind you, but because of what the love of God has done for us that we could not of our own human power, have achieved for ourselves and so we become reborn in a newfound humility where the definition of humility is to know one's self as we truly are (beloved).

You can't say to that "I'm not worthy"... nor can you really shake your fist at such an offer (since it's of incalculable value) and lay the blame at the feet of the gift giver... We cannot run away either, but, there's nothing there really, but an expansive field of bright new possibility and absolute freedom for self expression - to go charging into... so it's a double-bind by God in order so that the free gift of life can be made freely available, re-presented, not by human expectation but by God's own intentional doing while retaining and even holding in reserve, for us for "we", the very best of the best of what life has to offer and is really all about, in the real life, the authentic life (that's not afraid to laugh at one's "self") and then maybe we get a mere taste of heaven and in so doing by drinking freely of the water of life, bring something of heaven to earth as is our calling as sent people, chosen even before we even had a choice (LOL).

He got us. We were all of us punk'd by God in the best possible way.


"And as my father hath first sent me, even so send I, you." ()

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
There's another viewpoint regarding this idea of the humor of Christ, or what I would call the restoration of our joyful humor on account of his Great Work at the cross, but I just don't have the time right now to lay it out.

Stay tuned...

Edit to add: In anticipation, please consider everything that drains away and destroys our opportunity for good humor (and joy), which really is a manifestation of sin and evil who's first cause in time and history and the unfolding of life's story, including our own, isn't so easy to pin down and exclaim ah HA, there is where it ends and is contained..

Our good-natured childlike humor tends to die and shrivel up and fade away as we grow older and more cynical looking back on what I would call the absurdity of the indignities of the injustices of life, and if we wanted to try to trace it to it's source, to it's first cause, we're lost in the mists and the fog of history including the inheritance of the sins of the father (generational curses) to who knows where, maybe to some Neanderthal hitting another over the head with a rock to steal his woman.. we're lost in other words and the humor dies without a proper resolution to the fundamental problem. Without true justice, humor dies.

Which brings us to the cross.

If it's a resolution to the problem of human sin and evil and the absurdity of the injustices of life, then by God there's a real opportunity for the absolute restoration of one's own innate humor and joy with the playful childlike wonderment and glee, restored!

"So be of good cheer, and do not let your hearts be troubled, for I have overcome the world!" (said with a big smile I"m sure).

I think this whole idea is as perplexing to "Christians" as it is to atheists or agnostics, this notion of a full joy to the max ++ even to the point of gleeful laughter.

But as Christians, to actually BE the "Bride of Christ" we have to marry our spiritual "better half", and celebrate it. How else can such a thing possibly be realized without a very strong sense of humor? It's impossible. We simply can no longer take our former self seriously any more, while our true self is liberated to become fully self expressed in the humor of the real knowledge of true understanding, which is enlightenment, and the morning star of enlightenment. But it's a double edged sword so it keeps us humble lest we cut ourselves to pieces in making the attempt to wield it. It's sharp, cutting, witty, devastating and malicious to everything that is absurd and utterly ridiculous, so it's a light into darkness where darkness cannot hide, provided we are able to and are given the courage, and the opportunity, to laugh, at ourselves.

Therefore I've come to the conclusion that I have little choice in the matter as a called or sent person, chosen by Christ himself, to become a standup Christian comedian of the highest order.

From the position of the rock of Christ as the rock of ages, everything else is revealed for the absurdity that it really is, and that's the secret wisdom and the indestructible position from which many jokes can be told and it doesn't even matter if no one or very few have the guts to laugh, because it's contagious - one laugh and it's a whole new ballgame and we're off to the races.

Best Regards,

NAM
Bride of Christ.

I'm serious. Been thinking of some lines, dialogue, and some really interesting paradoxical twists, turns and surprises.

It's like a baptism process really, good Christian comedy, which btw doesn't put Christianity to ridicule, but instead celebrates the penetrating insight of the spirit. First you get them leaning into you, sharing in the absurdity of your story (I can relate to that brutal honesty) then suddenly, after formulating a series of judgments and biases, perhaps even as a defense, the audience is thrown off balance and then plunged straight into the truth and the resolution of the paradox, over and over and over again, every joke a type of baptism into the truth.

I'm smart enough and just crazy enough to pull this off and with God's help anything's possible.

So here's my plan in trying to do my part in carrying out Jesus' true commission of a "participatory eschatology" in the spirit of koinonia (yes, I'll be careful throwing around such terms when on stage), which btw is only considered a type of "blasphemy" by the RCC called "immanentizing the eschaton" ie: attempting to bring heaven to earth as in "thy kingdom come"): - first, I'm going to (and no it's not all about me, just sharing) make a load of money on the Internet for which I have a phenomenal plan, then, set free from "the box" I'm going to just go "on tour" and hit any amateur comedy night club I like. Secretly I'm really a preacher of God (the final surprise) promoting what can only be really thought of in terms of a type of Christian revival, because it will be designed to break through hardened biases on both sides of the fence/spectrum and thus capable of plowing new ground, which is what good humor is all about imo, to bring about a change in outlook which celebrates the best of the best that life has to offer by getting fully present to all the # that get's in our way all of which is mired down in ignorance and general stupidity, absurdity and ridiculousness, so my aim in generating the laughs is to bring everyone to presence, and thus spiritual enlightenment but laughing, and where needed perhaps occasionally crying, all the way.

I love tripping people out with truths that they cannot deny and I seem to have a real knack for explaining complex and esoteric subjects in a comprehensible way that generates a type of ah ha experience and I've found that when I speak in front of people, the combination of my nervousness and eloquence causes "me" to kind of disappear in a way whereby the spirit takes over, and then I wake up at the end as everyone rushes to occupy the new space of new possibility that my ideas have generated, seeking to congratulate both of us for having the guts to get real. Someone has to stand up and speak for Christ, and what better way than to leave them all rolling in the isles. Heck just the material from my own dark nights of the soul (DNoTS's) is enough to fill any routine. People like it too when you can admit to your own insanity, especially when it's told from the POV of one who is now sane who went insane to go into sanity, most people can relate to that kind of psychological and spiritual experience, and there's a lot of material to go around when it comes to human stupidity, insanity and the desire to discover the ultimate truth where we all have these cherished notions, conceptions and ...misconceptions.

It's like the Socractic method of teaching whereby an inquiry is made and the "education" more of a remembrance of what we already knew at the most fundamental level was true but had completely deluded ourselves otherwise in order to avoid painful truths and to have the bubble of our own in-authenticity, burst. The comedian is the one who grants people the courage to laugh at all our own nonsense, but what's left at the end of this type of "initiation" and baptism, well gee wiz that's the holy of holies, at the end of a false program that we've been running and the beginning of a new creation and then off they go - I'll even give a "benediction" at the very end as my trade mark signoff and by God I will get away with it and by this point they won't be able to lay a hand on any of it and write "it" off as absurd or ridiculous.

Like you guys they'll never know when they are safe to take me seriously, or not, and in the unknown the truth will just become self evident, and at the end of it all they will congratulate me for having the courage and the audacity to do the right thing for BOTH our sakes. They'll "get it", can't not in the final analysis when we enter into that type of conversation and inquiry where anything goes if only because I know that we've been absolutely forgiven and are unconditionally loved, that's the rock of absolute fearlessness and the humor of true understanding and comprehension.

Sorry for rambling...just sharing hopes and dreams.

And as the starting position everyone knows that the world is in many ways totally f'd so we all recognize that there's nothing to lose and that the only thing missing is our courage to say and do something about it, something meaningful and formative, something loving, even fun and playful.

So here's the kind of research I'm into now with this new career in mind.

How to Write a Joke.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


hi buddy

My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

so simple yet so complex,
the solution to a world in turmoil,
is not power or strength, but love
unconditional love freely given.

the most awesome power in the universe,
love created the universe, for no other reason than to have others to share love with,

This is my command: Love each other.

humour is an important part of love

"So be of good cheer, and do not let your hearts be troubled, for I have overcome the world!" (said with a big smile I"m sure).

i imagine no amount of time can dampen the heart of pure love

keep up your threads, i like reading your thoughts.
they make me smile, i have faith love will overcome the world.

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


Thanks XPLodER, it means a lot that someone groks.

Exploding or what I call "popping" via the "dark night of the soul" (DNoTS) is part of this whole process by which the Great Work of all Ages is realized, so congrats on being an "XPLodER"..

Humor explodes absurdity, so from what I can tell, the great exorcism that is so needed, at all levels, by which the evil one goes down the drain into the abyss which means oblivion (see Revelation) , must take place with gales of laughter when all that is absurd and ridiculous is held up to the ridicule it deserves and warrants. So it's very serious business, this humor of true understanding.

Originally posted by XPLodER
they make me smile, i have faith love will overcome the world.

In the final analysis nothing else is reasonable, so those who lack this faith of yours are mired in ignorance and yet the love you speak of requires by necessity great mercy towards them..

NewAgeMan
Re: A Participatory Eschatology

Eco-Doom or Redemption: The Mad Movement and the Sixties' Counter-Culture Project.

Care to join me, anyone?

an excerpt

According to messianic thinkers, both Jewish and Christian, our state of conflict with the world, our mortality and suffering is not a permanent human condition but is a result of our historical estrangement from God. The Kingdom of God, the reunion of God and humanity, is the remedy: "For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea" (Isaiah 11:9). Buber emphasized that this was not a matter of gradual progress but something "sudden and immense" (Lowy 52). In Isaiah God says, "I create new heavens and a new earth." The long awaited age of peace and happiness is called the "day without evening" in Eastern Christianity, thus connoting a state of immortality. Even in the Indian Vedas we find evidence of the messianic longing in the symbol of a new beginning also connoting immortality, "the eternal dawn." The messianic age is universally described as the union of heaven and earth.

More than any other religious Jewish thinker, Buber placed the active participation of human beings -- as God's partners -- at the heart of messianism. "God has no wish for any other means of perfecting his creation than by our help. He will not reveal his Kingdom until we have laid its foundations" (Farber 90). In the early 1920s Buber stated, "We are living in an unsaved world, and we are waiting for redemption in which we have been called upon to participate in a most unfathomable way"

Koinonia


So the way I look at it, it's not like the messianic expectation and hope involves trying to be Jesus or to replace or stand in for him, but to first receive what he is offering and then to share with others in the same spirit, to get the JOY of his love moving in the world.

In other words the "work" of the Christian isn't to try to be good, and try to mimic Jesus because the student can never be as great as the master.

No our work is to receive and overflow in completing and extending his circle of joy.

Sounds like a lazy-man's formula for global salvation I realize, but Jesus in his infinite wisdom in the Spirit, understood that he would need to do the heavy lifting for us because he understood intimately, our limitations, so the ONLY work he left us, to complete the Great Work of all Ages, was and is/remains, to receive and overflow such that our love and compassion is entirely natural and authentic, and our "good works" done in secret as their own reward, and not as a type of "photo op" by which to gain praise.

It's a natural flow of love emanating from the incorruptible center and source who is God. In other words it's a joy to share God's love, not a task, so it can hardly be considered "work".

Thank you God (Jesus) for doing for us what we could not do for ourselves and for inviting us to complete your circle of joy so that the world might come to know just who and what you really were and are in spirit and in truth, and in shared joy and good humor and love, or in koinonia. Amen.