Gods Plan For Us All

I am looking for people who think "this is all part of Gods plan". I am looking for those who believe god can affect the outcome of certain situations.

Who here believes that God can protect you from hardship here on earth?

Who here believes that God has a plan for all when they are born?

Who here believes that God is all knowing and all powerful?


What people need to accept more of is logic. If something makes no sense....THEN IT IS ILLOGICAL. I am not talking about someone not fully understanding. When two things cannot be true at the same time....then they canot be true at the same time. Christians will argue this point with me all day, but if God is all knowing as you believe, then he condemns you to hell before you are even born. If he knows your choices ahead of time, and those choices send you to hell, he condemns you to hell before you are born. How can he love you so much as the Bible says if He condemns you to hell without a chance?

Someone please explain this to me....

Originally posted by Seapeople
if God is all knowing as you believe, then he condemns you to hell before you are even born. If he knows your choices ahead of time, and those choices send you to hell, he condemns you to hell before you are born.

Do you really think that you'll be saved
By the gods and idols that you have made?
~VNV Nation~

I often don't understand why people buy into a religion where you are born with the stamp of Sinner on your forehead and it only gets worse from there. I suppose it is the desire to feel that you have a purpose; that you were meant to be here from a loving parental figure. I can see why it is appealing as the world is a cruel and cold place most of the time, but I would rather face the reality before me.

Originally posted by Seapeople
When two things cannot be true at the same time....then they canot be true at the same time.

Two men are talking. One is facing north; the other is facing south. A tree due east of them falls. The man facing north says "The tree fell to the right of us." The man facing south says "The tree fell to the left of us." Logically both men are correct in their statements even though the statements contradict each other. An argument could ensue if neither is willing to look at the facts from another perspective.

Sometimes finding the truth through logic first requires finding the proper perspective.

When a scientist makes a hypothesis, he assumes certain things to be true. This is a logical assumption to make while one is searching for the truth. He then applies his hypothesis to existing theories and laws to discover if there is any validity in his hypothesis.

Your questions derive from man having free will and God knowing all things.

Form a hypothesis that each statement is indeed true. Then examine "many worlds quantum theory". How could these contradictions be logically answered when they are applied to this theory?

Take Care.



[Edited on 12-11-2004 by Raphael_UO]

When you put something with a "relative to the observer" statement in it, things can get harry. But when all is said and done, the tree fell with a certain latitute and longitude coordinate. It fell in one place, not in two places.

Originally posted by Seapeople
When you put something with a "relative to the observer" statement in it, things can get harry. But when all is said and done, the tree fell with a certain latitute and longitude coordinate. It fell in one place, not in two places.

Is it not your own perception that creates your dispute?
You say two statements cannot logically be true if they contradict each other.

Examine "many worlds quantum theory", and ask yourself, "If eating a cake was a quantum event, could the cake both be eaten and still remain whole?"



[Edited on 12-11-2004 by Raphael_UO]

Originally posted by Raphael_UO

Originally posted by Seapeople
When you put something with a "relative to the observer" statement in it, things can get harry. But when all is said and done, the tree fell with a certain latitute and longitude coordinate. It fell in one place, not in two places.

Is it not your own perception that creates your dispute?
You say two statements cannot logically be true if they contradict each other.

Examine "many worlds quantum theory", and ask yourself, "If eating a cake was a quantum event, could the cake both be eaten and still remain whole?"



[Edited on 12-11-2004 by Raphael_UO]

We know very little about quantum mechanics. It is said that no two people describe the situations and occurances the same in quantum mechanics. If you are referring to paradoxes like Schroedingers cat (Excuse the spelling), you are leaving some serious issues out.

First off, quantum mechanics is only one area where these paradoxes occur. Relativity allows for them too. Here is how this ends up working though. You might disagree...but only because you choose to believe in the mysterious, over the obvious.

In relativity, an object travelling near the speed of light will gain relativistic mass according to an observer. The object traveling at this speed would disagree, saying its mass was the same. How can they both be right? Simple. The observer sees what appears to be a gain in mass....only because of his position and speed relative to the object. The object has no displaced position so it does not see the difference. They are both right as far as being observed relative. In reality though, the objects mass has never changed. It is what it is. It is one thing and one thing only whether someone sees it differently or not.

In quantum mechanics with the cat. The cat is either dead or alive....not both....no matter what the math says.

It is one or the other....both cannot be right. Just because you think that you saw something out of the corner of your eye, does not mean it is there.

This is a question I've often asked myself. This is a question that's had me confused many times. I'm still a Christian. You have to accept that your intellect isn't anywhere near equal with God's. God knows what he's doing, I trust him. Even if I don't fully understand something...yet, I believe God has it figured out. There are answeres, you just have to keep with it and not give up.

One of my theories is that what God knows about us is mixed. The big important things that happen to us, those things that only happen once or twice in our lives - he knows about them. As far as whether we go to Heaven or Hell...I'm not sure about that one. I do know that in the end, it's up to us whether God knows what decision we'll make or not.

Originally posted by Seapeople
In quantum mechanics with the cat. The cat is either dead or alive....not both....no matter what the math says.

It is one or the other....both cannot be right. Just because you think that you saw something out of the corner of your eye, does not mean it is there.

"The cat paradox" is an elimination of duality to make a definative statement concerning the unobserved state of something that is governed by probability.

I am referring to "Many Worlds Quantum Theory". It uses neither collasping wave functions nor observer knowledge to interpret QM.

Here is a link that gives a layman's view of "Many worlds". There are links at the bottom that go into far more detail if you desire the "nuts and bolts" of the theory.

My father got to College on a Football Scolarship. He was not particularly the greatest talent..but he was so driven that he may well have made it to the Pro level...except that during his 2nd to last year his knee blew out in a freak stretching accident. For several years, he asked God why did this happen... He accepted it, he was long over his anger..but he just wanted to know why. About 10 years later, in a random conversation about why people became Christians, my mother stated that it was her husband's going to church on crutches, walking, with his baby girls, to church, that got her to go...and the help of the church during that difficult period that won her heart....she saw that those people LIVED their faith, not their religion. (even more amusing was that my mom met my dad after praying to God telling him that she din't know him at all, and needed someone who knew a little bit more about him...my Dad studies Greek, so I think that fits, lol...)

My dad tells that story to explain to his kids that we don't always know why God allows things to happen, but it is usually for the greater good. He counts that as worth losing his chance at the Pros.

It wasn't until about a month back (now 20 years later) that we found out that my dad had multiple healed spinal fractures and bone spurs from college football...and that if he had continued playing...he would have lost his life.

2 things from this apparantly horrible life altering experience. Bad things often happen because the alternative is worse. Sometimes we are lucky to never find out what the worse is.

[Edited on 13-11-2004 by jlc163]