A simple question. Not a simple answer.

There are going to be many crude over-generalizations presented in my thread, it's not intentional, and I'm trying to refrain from it, but at least I'm making it a point rather than just skipping over it like many other posts. Anyways, here goes trying to word this as best as I can.

Okay, so I would consider it a generally conceived notion that we, as a species, do not know where we came from, how we came about, when we came about, why we came about, etc. What would generally be coined the 'big' questions that humanity has ever considered. Now, I know some of you are going to feel absolutely certain in that you've found the answers to these questions. You're going to use cherry-picked scripture from your cherry-picked holy book (there's quite a few out there), that's subjective, in order to prove an objective existence. I'll refrain from saying more, but it clutters up a thread, is not the point here, and it's annoying.

Anyway, on to my main point. Space is freaking insane. I mean, mind-boggling is a crude understatement. I studied Astronomy for a very short period of time, and the intricacies of motion, light, gravity; it is absolutely incredible. And to think, there are more planets than there are grains of sand on this Earth. Ridiculous. The sheer scale of our cosmos, and to think we have barely scratched the surface as to the knowledge the stars hold. It's such a beautiful creation, although I certainly will not discredit the notion that it is all some elaborate quantum illusion that is stranger than one can begin to imagine. Well here's my point with this thread.

Where did it all come from? The Big Bang? God?

Well, personally, I have absolutely no idea. Sure, I have my beliefs, but they are that. BELIEFS. I do not entertain them as fact, or at least I honestly try not to do so. But where did all this creation, literally the only thing we 'know' are the cosmos, our Earth, and the planets in our solar system because they have always been there.

Now, I have a massive problem with this question. Well, I shouldn't say the question. It's more of the responses people give to this question. As I briefly mentioned earlier, and although it is my opinion, our universe is such a magnificent place and as far as we know we are the only sentient life out there. We are the definition of lucky, on a very objective scale (ignoring the corruption, murder, deceit that's devoured our world). Yet, when it comes to appreciating this creation, and trying to become in touch with it so we can feel a part of something bigger than ourselves; people gloss over their own intuition and give such blithe answers.

"God did it." And it may not be that simple, it's all too often that someone responds with some fluffed up 'esoteric' feel good garbage. And I hate to call it garbage, because I'm all for love and spirituality (peace, brother.) but it gets so tiresome after awhile. Don't teach your philosophy, embody it; live it. Well like I was saying, it's such a moot answer to a beautiful question.

Here's the kicker. We all know the very, very typical 'arguement' for the Big Bang Theory. "Something can't come from nothing."

So, where did God come from? I mean, you guys have said it yourself. Something cannot come from nothing. Why is God an exception to this? Is it because it's God? How do you know what God is? Because a book told you so? Can you prove this book has any divinity in it? What about the countless other Holy Books and supposed divine encounters? Do they not count? Are they wrong? Are they wrong for calling you wrong because they believe they're right just as you believe you're right?

Why are none of these questions ever answered? What is God's will? Who gave you the authority to decipher and understand the will of a God, that you so often allude to in sayings such as 'God works in mysterious ways?' Is that a direct contradiction, such as the something coming from nothing example? Is God omnipotent/omniscient? If so, then why did he send his only son to save us? If true, before he created himself (?) and the universe, he would have been aware of Adam and Eve, and sending his son (which is himself?) to save us, yes? My philosophy professor liked to call this the "The man who throws the baby in the river then jumps in to save the baby; because you know, saving babies is cool!"

As I mentioned earlier, there are a lot of crude over-generalizations here. But my point still stands. People need to stop this madness with proclaiming the truth of a God, salvation, Heaven, our existence, etc.

I am sorry to break it to you, BUT WE ARE NOT DONE ADVANCING AS A SPECIES. Well, with the way things are headed now, that is certainly questionable, but I believe when all is said and done the human race will still be around. Has it ever occurred to you that there are endless possibilities of monumental truths as well as monumental silences that exist in our reality? That ONE of MANY books that were written in a time that is nowhere even relevant to the technological age we live in now, had the entire essence of existence already figured out and now it's our job to just blindly follow our Shepard like mindless sheep?

And people wonder why no one cares about government corruption or illegal wars, because since thousands of years ago the human race has been indoctrinated into passively accepting their situation because it's out of our control, and what matters is making ourselves happy because whatever else happens is 'God's will.'

I went out to eat with a couple of friends a month or so back. They were discussing a meme depicting Jesus being hit with a handful of rocks. One of them got past him, and it hit a kid and because of this he cried foul. They mentioned how Jesus died for our sins and we need to be grateful for what we have.

Now, I'm going to hold my tongue more than I want to, but why doesn't Jesus get the... up and take a Hellfire missile for some of the children my government is bombing in countless countries. Why didn't Jesus come down from the Heavens and save himself when a nuclear bomb was dropped on top of innocent civilians; and then so again. Why doesn't Jesus come down and stop this nuclear disaster before we all pay the price.

Now, as I mentioned earlier, a lot of people combat this with fluffed up esoteric non--sense. "They are in God's kingdom now. It's so beautiful there, and they are more happy than ever."

HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Does God talk to you and snapchat you pictures of Heaven? Did you trip so hard or astrally project through the Universe and talk to the "Spirit Guides" or whatever the hell they're called now-a-days.

Anyone that says they hear God, they've seen Heaven, they know His will, anyone that says they've reached enlightenment, anyone that says that God's word is absolute truth should NOT be taken seriously. I'm sorry, but the very steps leading up to this platform are absolutely RIDDLED with logical inconsistencies and faith based reasoning. If you disagree with this, go back up to the point where I asked a series of questions. How many of those can be answered with objective and tangible proof?

So, where did space come from? Did it come from nothing? Did it come from God? If it came from God, where did God come from? Where did the creator of God come from? How deep does the rabbit hole go?

If something cannot come from nothing, if this is true; and I'm sorry to say it, but God is no exception. You cannot prove his existence nor his will.

reply to post by RomeByFire

Space has always been there. It never ends. We "call it" Infinity.

This gives "closure" to our limited understanding. We have "defined" it so thats that. We can go on with our lives without needing to know anymore. "Its infinite", we declare.

Others say "God did it". Whatever.

How deep does the rabbit hole go?

There is no bottom to that rabbit hole. You can test this for yourself. Imagine being able to stretch out your hand like an elastic appendage to the end of the Universe... except there is no end so your hand just keeps going and going. Infinity means there are any infinite number of answers to those questions you are asking. They are all true. Everything you can imagine has already happened somewhere out there long before we ever arrived.

reply to post by RomeByFire


Your problem with the Big Bang is that something can't come from nothing, so, you invent a god to explain it?

Have you considered the Multiverse?
Given a Multiverse, there's adequate outside influences to create blister Universes or entirely new ones.

Beyond that, there needs be no beginning, or other such trivial small conceptualizations.

On smaller scales, as far as people are concerned, there's plenty and quite adequate explanation in the fossil record to explain the when, where, whats and hows of human evolution and development.
As far as WHY; well, there never needs be a why, except where one injects anthrocentric views and biases where there are none.

One may as well ask why any certain individual methane ice crystal on Pluto formed yesterday and evaporated today, or didn't.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by RomeByFire

 

Your problem with the Big Bang is that something can't come from nothing, so, you invent a god to explain it?

Have you considered the Multiverse?
Given a Multiverse, there's adequate outside influences to create blister Universes or entirely new ones.

Beyond that, there needs be no beginning, or other such trivial small conceptualizations.

I think what he's getting at is 'what started everything?' Not just our universe, everything. How does existence exist? Where did the multiverse come from? It's impossible to answer but fun to think about... until you go crazy.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by RomeByFire

 

Your problem with the Big Bang is that something can't come from nothing, so, you invent a god to explain it?

Have you considered the Multiverse?
Given a Multiverse, there's adequate outside influences to create blister Universes or entirely new ones.

Beyond that, there needs be no beginning, or other such trivial small conceptualizations.

On smaller scales, as far as people are concerned, there's plenty and quite adequate explanation in the fossil record to explain the when, where, whats and hows of human evolution and development.
As far as WHY; well, there never needs be a why, except where one injects anthrocentric views and biases where there are none.

edit on 28-8-2013 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

No no! Not at all. I don't understand the intricacies of any "one" theory (Big Bang, Big Chill) to really make a stand. And I believe in God, just more of a pantheistic one. God is not a 'He,' it's the love that exists in the heart of humanity and our collective consciousness. I don't believe in any God that's found in any books, or any God that's considered a Universal and absolute truth.

And yes I've absolutely considered the multiverse, as I mentioned I'm very fascinated with space. If I would have had more room in my post I would mentioned it somewhere.

I disagree with we knowing our own existence, though. For all we know, we could simply be re-inventing already previously existing technology. We could venture out to other planets and find previous remnants of ourselves. Of course, this is all what if's, but as I mentioned, it's asinine to make the assumption that we've mastered our history and have understood our existence.

And as for the why? You sound very nihilistic. The why all depends on what you want it to be. Your thoughts create your world, all the fluffed up non-sense I rambled on about in my OP? It doesn't have to cloud or blanket every aspect of life. Instead of having many, many different, intricate thoughts; let them form into one, universal, personal belief.

Originally posted by scojak

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by RomeByFire

 

Your problem with the Big Bang is that something can't come from nothing, so, you invent a god to explain it?

Have you considered the Multiverse?
Given a Multiverse, there's adequate outside influences to create blister Universes or entirely new ones.

Beyond that, there needs be no beginning, or other such trivial small conceptualizations.

I think what he's getting at is 'what started everything?' Not just our universe, everything. How does existence exist? Where did the multiverse come from? It's impossible to answer but fun to think about... until you go crazy.

edit on 8/28/2013 by scojak because: (no reason given)

I embrace craziness.

Hey man, for all I know I've got one life, and that's it. I'll drive myself mad and I'm completely alright with that.

Originally posted by RomeByFire
I embrace craziness.

Hey man, for all I know I've got one life, and that's it. I'll drive myself mad and I'm completely alright with that.

I fully agree with you. The craziest ones are those who know the most, or at least believe they do, and I like to learn as much as I can.

I think our problem with finding these answers is our propensity of keeping science and religion separate. Spirituality would be a more appropriate description of what science needs to embrace, but science and religion are what the masses understand, and you're either on one side or the other. It's a problem that really limits our ability to evolve.

reply to post by RomeByFire


I have given this a lot of thought too my whole life. Let us say we proved there was A God. What would change? As for everything having a beginning, I think about the circle. Where is the beginning and ending of a circle? I think there are just some things WE will never know til we move on to the NEXT. I hope there is a benevolent God and sometimes I see the proof in the laws of physics.

reply to post by RomeByFire


I'd suggest getting a job with Disney.
They like to personify everything from crabs, candlesticks, teacups, birds, and everything else.

In reality, personification of the rest of the universe, or even local environment isn't going to make the stairs hurt less or break your neck any more gently when you slip and tumble down them, even if you fill the stairs with love and built them yourself by hand.

Physics and reality will kill you without a blink, or thought, because there's no personality or cognizance behind them.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by RomeByFire

 

Space has always been there. It never ends. We "call it" Infinity.

This gives "closure" to our limited understanding. We have "defined" it so thats that. We can go on with our lives without needing to know anymore. "Its infinite", we declare.

Others say "God did it". Whatever.

How deep does the rabbit hole go?

There is no bottom to that rabbit hole. You can test this for yourself. Imagine being able to stretch out your hand like an elastic appendage to the end of the Universe... except there is no end so your hand just keeps going and going. Infinity means there are any infinite number of answers to those questions you are asking. They are all true. Everything you can imagine has already happened somewhere out there long before we ever arrived.

Sorry to say but space has not always been there.Space and time are intertwined and time began the moment of the big bang so that is when space began and then inflated and is still expanding.Where did the big bang come from? who knows...there are theory's but that's it.

We can only comprehend that what is finite. We cannot comprehend that what is infinite while being in flesh. Within us we know there is more. Our soul tells us this, our conscious eat at us, with a severe craving. How to get a clearer answer is to live in spirit, to ask in spirit, to be guided by The Holy Spirit.

We cannot understand that which is way beyond our minds. The brain is powerful, and even if we could use 100% of it, it cannot touch what we will, and can do when we are with our Father. How can we understand or try and comprehend how it all started? There is no answer anyone can give, 'cos it is way above our knowledge of flesh.

Now we go by faith. Some have faith in science, others in a Creator (like myself) and some in both. Well, some have no belief, whatsoever.

I am satisfied with my belief. It sustains me while on earth. It has given me plenty answers to things i cannot understand. To prove this i can't, because i don't "have pics". I could say that it is like i am breathing the freshest air ever. I am renewed, without worry, but with joy.

I see the stars and i smile. I feel the wind & rain, and i am cleansed. I see colors like i haven't seen. I see ants and i am amazed. Just a few examples. Why? It is because i am guided by The Holy Spirit. I know our Father is the beginning & the end.

For many here my explanation will be foolish, i have no doubt. I am saying what i must, with truth, from my soul.

Now, I look up at the night sky, and i know, it is only the beginning & never ending.

reply to post by RomeByFire


My take.

If you believe in absolute then there are things in the universe that absolutely have one answer because the alternative is absolutely nothing.

Originally posted by Boomer1951
reply to post by RomeByFire

 

I have given this a lot of thought too my whole life. Let us say we proved there was A God. What would change? As for everything having a beginning, I think about the circle. Where is the beginning and ending of a circle? I think there are just some things WE will never know til we move on to the NEXT. I hope there is a benevolent God and sometimes I see the proof in the laws of physics.

As Voltaire implied if we couldnt prove a God exists we (humans) would invent one.

Originally posted by scojak

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by RomeByFire

 

Your problem with the Big Bang is that something can't come from nothing, so, you invent a god to explain it?
Have you considered the Multiverse? Given a Multiverse, there's adequate outside influences to create blister Universes or entirely new ones. Beyond that, there needs be no beginning, or other such trivial small conceptualizations.

I think what he's getting at is 'what started everything?' Not just our universe, everything. How does existence exist? Where did the multiverse come from? It's impossible to answer but fun to think about... until you go crazy

I am more in the mind that this place is a PHYSICAL playground (OR a Living Three Dimensional Library for sentient beings to manifest into); becoming dense have emotions/hormones. I look at it as a great carnival ride for those that want to experience the physical, as in birth process death process and the INBETWEEN.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by RomeByFire

 

I'd suggest getting a job with Disney.
They like to personify everything from crabs, candlesticks, teacups, birds, and everything else.
In reality, personification of the rest of the universe, or even local environment isn't going to make the stairs hurt less or break your neck any more gently when you slip and tumble down them, even if you fill the stairs with love and built them yourself by hand.Physics and reality will kill you without a blink, or thought, because there's no personality or cognizance behind them.

Funny, I see Walt as a microcosim within the macro (posed as a childs fair, adults are accidental victims). What I find interesting is that the human cartoon, 'snow white', 'cinderella' is not the only thing animated (or alive), it is as well the chairs, candlesticks etc; Disney had the thought that inatimate objects could possibly hold life/soul and if that is not brillant in conception neither is fractal/chaos theory (order within disorder).

reply to post by KaelemJames

Too bad I can only give you one star for that.

To wonder at the stars or a patch of garden... that is true worship.

Originally posted by KILLERCODE

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by RomeByFire

 

Space has always been there. It never ends. We "call it" Infinity.

This gives "closure" to our limited understanding. We have "defined" it so thats that. We can go on with our lives without needing to know anymore. "Its infinite", we declare.

Others say "God did it". Whatever.

How deep does the rabbit hole go?

There is no bottom to that rabbit hole. You can test this for yourself. Imagine being able to stretch out your hand like an elastic appendage to the end of the Universe... except there is no end so your hand just keeps going and going. Infinity means there are any infinite number of answers to those questions you are asking. They are all true. Everything you can imagine has already happened somewhere out there long before we ever arrived.

Sorry to say but space has not always been there.Space and time are intertwined and time began the moment of the big bang so that is when space began and then inflated and is still expanding.Where did the big bang come from? who knows...there are theory's but that's it.

Okay, but what was is outside the space occupied by the Big Bang? What was there before it? Careful now. If you say nothing...nothing is something.

Originally posted by intrptr

Originally posted by KILLERCODE

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by RomeByFire

 

Space has always been there. It never ends. We "call it" Infinity.

This gives "closure" to our limited understanding. We have "defined" it so thats that. We can go on with our lives without needing to know anymore. "Its infinite", we declare.

Others say "God did it". Whatever.

How deep does the rabbit hole go?

There is no bottom to that rabbit hole. You can test this for yourself. Imagine being able to stretch out your hand like an elastic appendage to the end of the Universe... except there is no end so your hand just keeps going and going. Infinity means there are any infinite number of answers to those questions you are asking. They are all true. Everything you can imagine has already happened somewhere out there long before we ever arrived.

Sorry to say but space has not always been there.Space and time are intertwined and time began the moment of the big bang so that is when space began and then inflated and is still expanding.Where did the big bang come from? who knows...there are theory's but that's it.

Okay, but what was is outside the space occupied by the Big Bang? What was there before it? Careful now. If you say nothing...nothing is something.

I know nothing is something.Quantum mechanical effects say that even nothing is unstable...so before the big bang fluctuations occur and explode into what we call the big bang.That's just a theory though.

reply to post by KILLERCODE

I know nothing is something.Quantum mechanical effects say that even nothing is unstable...so before the big bang fluctuations occur and explode into what we call the big bang.That's just a theory though.

Thats cool. What I say is only theoretical too, okay? At the risk of losing you because I talk too much (as usual) I also wanted to say this.

If the Big Bang was about to happen and you were some distance away watching it about to happen, you would have to be in space that is surrounding the event, right?

Thats why people suppose or theorize that space is endless and there are many universe or multiverses and space is full of such events like bangs and stuff, maybe...

Since space is infinite, I mean. Since you can stretch out your hand and be blocked by nothing forever, I mean. (?)

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by KILLERCODE

 

I know nothing is something.Quantum mechanical effects say that even nothing is unstable...so before the big bang fluctuations occur and explode into what we call the big bang.That's just a theory though.

Thats cool. What I say is only theoretical too, okay? At the risk of losing you because I talk too much (as usual) I also wanted to say this.

If the Big Bang was about to happen and you were some distance away watching it about to happen, you would have to be in space that is surrounding the event, right?

Thats why people suppose or theorize that space is endless and there are many universe or multiverses and space is full of such events like bangs and stuff, maybe...

Since space is infinite, I mean. Since you can stretch out your hand and be blocked by nothing forever, I mean. (?)

Now i get yea and yes the multiverse theory is a fascinating one at that....endless possibilities.