New UK Germ Warfare Experiments Planned?

Ever wondered if the UK Government would repeat their 1960s-1970s Biological Warfare experiments?

You know, the ones where they sprayed massive amounts of live bacteria over populated areas of southern England.










According to the penultimate paragraph of this letter, should the MOD decide that there was a military need, they would not only repeat the experiments but they would be conducted on a larger scale.




After the events of 2001, both the UK and US Governments have spent large sums of money on BW research, especially in the field of detection. It seems highly likely that the MOD have decided that research into the detection of a large scale BW attack was necessary. According to this letter, that could mean larger scale public area biological warfare experiments than those conducted by MRE Porton Down from 1963-1975 in Dorset.

At the moment, when questioned as whether they are conducting BW detection experiments in public areas of the UK, Porton Down will only state that they do not comment on operational matters.


zero lift

Hmmm! Well wasn't the particular strain of Ames anthrax virus spread during the post-911 period directly traceable back to Porton Down?
And isn't anthrax vaccine producer Bioport merely a commercial arm of Porton Down? Note the 'port' bit
And wasn't Dr David Kelly,a Porton Down scientist, murdered apparently because of his insider knowledge of non-existant Iraqi bioweapons, factually because of his insider knowledge of homeland bioweapons to be used against the homeland populations, as maybe applied to all those other eminent microbiologists who have died under mysterious circumstances?
And haven't we got lots of questions about the origin of AIDS, Ebola, BSE/vCJD?
And might not chemtrails have a lot to answer for?
And might it be that DNA/RNA are vibratory strings, as well as particulate, that can be infested with viruses attenuated through the HAARP/chemtrails/cell tower network?
And do you think things have changed since these early primitive experiments on the human race?

yeah wouldnt effect the human race.. sickness nad after diease the random unioin will find away to get back

The MOD never distributed live Bacteria. If you actually read the letter, it states it used Zinc Cadmium Sulphide, which is a simulant. And the UK wasn't the only country to do it.

Here it is straight from the horses mouth:

MOD...Open air trials.

stumason wrote

The MOD never distributed live Bacteria. If you actually read the letter, it states it used Zinc Cadmium Sulphide, which is a simulant. And the UK wasn't the only country to do it.

You couldn't be more wrong.

That letter was a reply to questions that I had sent to DERA. The fourth paragraph starts" You also requested information about current procedures governing open air trials in public areas." This was a catch all question. I was referring to any type of simulant, chemical or biological.

If you read

INDEPENDENT REVIEW OF THE POSSIBLE HEALTH HAZARDS OF THE LARGE-SCALE RELEASE OF BACTERIA DURING THE DORSET DEFENCE TRIALS

you will find that the MOD consistently sprayed massive amounts of live bacteria across populated areas of southern England, and in particular Dorset, from 1963-1975.

You will also discover that on at least four occasions the MRE Porton Down sprayed massive amounts of contaminated bacterial suspension over the population of Dorset.

The first page of the Independent Review states;

"A. The nature of the bacteria and viruses released into the environment
The great majority of the experimental releases of bacteria in the 1960's and 1970s involved four species - Escherichia coli, Bacillus globigii, Bacterium aerogenes and Serratia marcescens.

Some of the experiments involved the release of killed bacteria but in most experiments the bacteria were not killed before they were sprayed across the South of England. The health hazards associated with the four bacteria used in the experiments are outlined below. I then describe the properties of the other bacteria (or bacterial viruses) that were used in a few experiments, which in most cases were not part of the Dorset Defence Trials."


zero lift

Fair enough.

All of the bacteria used where harmless though (or thought to be, even then they are only dangerous to certain, highly susceptible individuals), and i doubt the MOD has neither the need or the will to mass poison the population. I am not concerned if they do it now, I know people within the MOD, and they all have families and children, so are unlikely to do anything harmful.

It does state in that report that the MOD was more concerned with how spores/bacterium spread than testing the bacteria themselves, as it was highlighted that a plane skirting the territorial airspace could infect the entire UK with an Aerosol suspended pathogen.

stumason wrote

All of the bacteria used where harmless though (or thought to be, even then they are only dangerous to certain, highly susceptible individuals),

Are you saying it's OK to spray massive quantities of living bacteria across populated areas as it would only be dangerous to certain, highly suceptible individuals?

The toxicity of the main types of bacteria used in these trials is open to debate. The E.coli was isolated from a Porton Down toilet seat in 1949 and was subjected to minimal toxicity checks before use.

The Bacillus globigii (aka Bacillus subtilis) was not a natural "wild" type bacteria, it was obtained from the US quivalent of MRE Porton Down, Fort Detrick. It was not checked for either purity or toxicity prior to being sprayed over populated areas.

The UK Health Protection Agency has recently listed species of Bacillus subtilis as being a cause of food poisoning.

www.hpa.org.uk...

The US Department of Defense also lists Bacillus subtilis as causing food poisoning and in some cases, meningitis.

I am not concerned if they do it now, I know people within the MOD, and they all have families and children, so are unlikely to do anything harmful.

You obviously haven't read the history of Porton Down.


zero lift

I am aware of the place, I am also aware of other experiments that the MOD has done. Mostly on willing subjects I might add. And some where rather amusing, others slightly more disturbing...But hey, back on topic:

The mass aerial spraying of e-coli is insignificant as the bacteria would die. They where only used in that experiment to compare how far spores travel compared to normal bacterium. The other bacterium where harmless, and you would probably be at more risk from going to a Hospital or a public toilet.

Like I said, I wouldn't panic, nor object, as it is not harmfull. They where doing it to study how best to prepare for a suspected REAL bio attack by the Soviets, which was a probability.

You haven't answered my question; Are you saying it's OK to spray massive quantities of living bacteria across populated areas as it would only be dangerous to certain, highly suceptible individuals?

The mass aerial spraying of e-coli is insignificant as the bacteria would die.

The bacteria were sprayed at night, during the winter months for the express reason of ensuring they reached their target areas before dying. In other words, residents of the target areas would have inhaled and ingested the E.coli before they had a chance to die.

In later trials, the E.coli were encapsulated in a protective substance in order to keep them alive in daylight and in a contaminated environment.



It's important to remember that these bacteria were deliberately sized in order to mimic a real BW agent. That is, they were sized to get past the body's natural defences and reach the alvioli, the deepest part of the lung.

They where only used in that experiment to compare how far spores travel compared to normal bacterium

Wrong. I don't know where you got that information from? Even Porton Down haven't tried to say that.

E.coli and Bacillus subtilis were used together in the experiments.

If you suffered from a serious underlying disease, these experiments were potentially lethal. According to Prof Spratt the experiments could have caused blood poisoning or pneumonia, neither of which are to be treated lightly.

You have to remember that not many people in the Government were aware of these experiments. No official Government policy permission was asked for or given for them to be conducted. Authority rested with the Director of MRE Porton Down.

For that reason alone, it makes a mockery of saying that the MOD wouldn't risk harming people. Hardly anyone in the MOD new about them. If you check the history of the MRE Porton Down you will find it was autonomous, a law unto itself.


zero lift



[edit on 12-11-2004 by zero lift]

stumason wrote

am aware of the place, I am also aware of other experiments that the MOD has done. Mostly on willing subjects I might add. And some where rather amusing, others slightly more disturbing...But hey, back on topic:

My highlights.


Just in case anyone else agrees with stumason that most Porton "volunteers" were willing subjects, I would like to remind you that Porton Down conducted these experiments without obtaining informed consent from the servicemen.

Informed consent means that you have had the experiment's procedure and it's likely side-effects, both short and long term, explained to you. You are also made aware that you can withdraw from the experiment whenever you wish, without repercussions.

Informed consent was not the practice at Porton Down.

An accurate account of the Chemical Warfare experiments that were performed on Service personnel at Porton Down can be found in Rob Evans book, Gassed

Synopsis
For 80 years, scientists at Porton Down have sought to develop deadly and destructive chemical weapons within one of Britain's most secretive installations. Thousands of human volunteers were subjected to a programme of often ruthless medical testing yet their stories have remained untold. Now many are claiming they are suffering the long-term effects from these tests with serious damage to their health and a police enquiry has been launched. In this daring new publication, journalist Robert Evans investigates the ethics and actions of the scientists and survivors of Porton Down.


zero lift

Lots of time and effort goes into predicting the next biological weapon, the natural avian influenza is the real menace. It can kill off 1/4 of the earth's population in a few months

www.recombinomics.com...

and little has been done to prevent this looming threat from becoming a reality.

Lots of time and effort goes into predicting the next biological weapon,

The UK BW experiments to which I referred are likely to be conducted for large area detection purposes. Not BW weapons prediction. The work is sponsored by the UK Ministry of Defence and is not, repeat not designed for the protection of the general public. Dstl Porton Down have stated many times that BW protection for the general public is the responsibility of the Home Office, not the MOD.

You infer that the danger presented by a pandemic of avian influenza being greater than these proposed UK BW public area experiments. Well that's obvious. But the difference is that I can lobby effectively against the MOD BW experiments, whereas lobbying against governmental inaction on the dangers of avian influenza is a much more difficult situation.


zero lift

A programme that shows some of Porton Down's public area biological warfare experiments is being broadcast tonight on ITV West at 19:30.

see BTS Thread

www.belowtopsecret.com...


zero lift

Originally posted by zero lift
A programme that shows some of Porton Down's public area biological warfare experiments is being broadcast tonight on ITV West at 19:30.

see BTS Thread

www.belowtopsecret.com...


zero lift

There is a program on BBC4 tonight about the lost Village of Imber.
A ghost town not far from Porton Down I believe? Now a MOD base.

Tom

Tom wrote

There is a program on BBC4 tonight about the lost Village of Imber. A ghost town not far from Porton Down I believe? Now a MOD base.

Funnily enough Tom, Porton have often used this "commandeered" village in order to investigate the use of various Chemical Weapons. The information on these experiments is just starting to enter the public domain.

A large series of aircraft delivered mock nerve agent attacks took place at Imber during the late 1950s - early 1960s. Sea Venom aircraft "attacked" infantry who were dispersed around Imber because of the threat of tactical nukes.
The aircraft contaminated the soldiers with Diethyl phthalate, used as a V agent simulant. (Phthalates are now being investigated as a possible health threat)


zero lift