Snowden Document Releases vs. the mound of UFO Documents

Here's something I've been wondering. Why didn't the US intelligence community release a statement to the media simply saying Snowden's powerpoint slides were fabricated? The NSA could have easily told the press it was a lie constructed by a disgruntled employee. How would the public have been any bit the wiser?

I find this to be curious because of the implications it has for the UFO subject. None of the leaked documents discovered by UFO researchers (MAJIC, Vannevar Bush letter to Truman, etc.) have ever been legitimized. So what does that tell us?

The most immediate thing that jumps to mind is that the documents are forgeries... Or perhaps the reason the intelligence community ate humble pie in the case of Snowden is because they were concerned he would release additional documents to prove himself if the NSA said that he was lying. If we take that tack, then maybe there is some legitimacy to older UFO documents. Perhaps since the leakers didn't have additional information there was no threat. I'm not sure entirely, but whatever the case. I think this is a subject that's worth discussing.

What say you ATS?

Well a simple explanation, is that it wasn't under snowdens purview.

Why didn't snowden leak black military aircraft projects, not his job.

Why didn't he leak the JFK assassination files, not his job.

HIS job was spying on law abiding Americans, so he release what he knew there.

reply to post by benrl


Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I'm not questioning why Snowden didn't release anything about UFOs. That wouldn't make any sense. There is no reason he would have access to such material unless he could pull telexes or comints. My point — is why would the intelligence community be willing to discuss XKEYSCORE and PRISM and give legitimacy to the leaked documents rather than just claim it to be a fraud? The same way many people claim UFO documents are dismissed as a fraud by the US government. Make sense? Basically I think this helps prove the whole UFO subject is a grand foul-up rather than a grand conspiracy cover-up.

reply to post by Xtraeme

My point — is why would the intelligence community be willing to discuss XKEYSCORE and PRISM and give legitimacy to the leaked documents rather than just claim it to be a fraud?

Because the cat was out of the bag and we live in a different world today interconnected by the internet , there were/are more people in the loop on this outside of government so if they'd denied it chances are it would have blown up in there face , it was embarresing but safer for them not to pretend its not real .... maybe

Yay the internet

Originally posted by gortex
reply to post by Xtraeme

 

Because the cat was out of the bag and we live in a different world today interconnected by the internet , there were/are more people in the loop on this outside of government so if they'd denied it chances are it would have blown up in there face , it was embarrassing but safer for them not to pretend its not real .... maybe

Yay the internet

The internet is a powerful force to be sure. However TIME magazine could have splashed the leaked MJ12 papers all over the world if they wanted to. So I am not so sure it's just because of the internet. I think for there to be an admittance and a public discussion it would have to be because there were additional documents that the intelligence community didn't want to see released. So it was better to try to stem the tide. That's my current wild assed guess anyways.

Maybe because the ufo subject is more far fetched so it would be easier to say they were fraud's and many people back then didn't believe in ufo's either but in Snowden's case were he said the government were spying on people...that's not that far fetched plus people already thought that.

Originally posted by KILLERCODE
Maybe because the ufo subject is more far fetched so it would be easier to say they were fraud's and many people back then didn't believe in ufo's either but in Snowden's case were he said the government were spying on people...that's not that far fetched plus people already thought that.

So you see it as a measured risk? Hrm. There is no doubt people of mid-20th century America viewed the US federal government much differently from how we do today. Here's an excerpt about Utah from "The History of Iron Country" written by author Janet Seegmiller.

Atomic Energy Commission press releases promised that atomic tests would be conducted "with adequate assurances of safety." Residents of southern Nevada and southern Utah who lived downwind of the tests initially believed what they were told; as one historian wrote, "Their faith and trust in their government would not allow them to even consider the possibility that the government would ever endanger their health." However, their experiences during and since the 1950s have convinced them of just the opposite--there was no safety for either people or livestock from atmospheric nuclear testing and the AEC knew it. Declassified transcripts released from 1978 to 1980 show that scientists knew as early as 1947 that fission products released by atomic bomb tests could be deadly to humans and animals exposed during and after the tests. The AEC chose to ignore warnings from its own scientists and outside medical researchers and continued with a "nothing-must-stop-the-tests" rationale.

historytogo.utah.gov...

Not exactly a shining moment in US history, but at least it was eventually admitted. The same can't be said for the MAJIC documents. I honestly think the governments of the world have no idea what to do with the UFO subject. And they just want it gone because it's a nuisance.

There is probably very little left to disclose. The documents out in the public domain are probably it. Maybe we'll get a few new things from the 90s and early 2000, but it'll probably be more "weird radar, weird lights, weird movements, bunch of people saw it, no one knows what it was." I don't think the governments of the world have it any more figured out than the rest of us.

We find today the NSA admits they spied on Americans, but it was just a mistake, a mistake that just happened tens of thousands of times, lol. That is actually what cnn reported, a Jake tapper one liner before commercial, lol. That almost as bad as the arse hole lying to Congress and then saying that was the least untruth I could say. Uh hello he just admitted to lying to Congress which is a punishable offense. Why was he not arrested.

What a joke this is, I contacted all my congressional reps and not one had the balls to respond about NSA spying on us. I don't understand how Americans can be so complacent about losing their constitutional rights. It is like I am living the movie of the body snatchers and I am the only one left.

Allot of high ranking officials got up on soap boxes and said he did not have access to this or that etc. That too is a joke and not true, it happens every day. You would be amazed at what you can see and read with just an entry level access, especially with so many mistakes made.

Just be thankful that most people working the defense industry are veterans and Patriots who have no intentions of taking advantage of these networks like manning and Snowden.

The Bot

Originally posted by Xtraeme
reply to post by benrl

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I'm not questioning why Snowden didn't release anything about UFOs. That wouldn't make any sense. There is no reason he would have access to such material unless he could pull telexes or comints. My point — is why would the intelligence community be willing to discuss XKEYSCORE and PRISM and give legitimacy to the leaked documents rather than just claim it to be a fraud? The same way many people claim UFO documents are dismissed as a fraud by the US government. Make sense? Basically I think this helps prove the whole UFO subject is a grand foul-up rather than a grand conspiracy cover-up.

Why? Maybe you're right-- and he had documents or something that could prove what he was saying. Perhaps they knew this, or anticipated it.

Or maybe other theorists are right-- those who have speculated that Snowden is actually operating on the CIA's payroll, making the NSA look bad because of some long-time rivalry and struggle for power between agencies.

Or perhaps Snowden's release has actually been sanctioned by someone at the top-- as a part of a controlled release of information that will serve some agenda we are yet unaware of.

Could be any number of things....



On that note-- I suspect a number of "UFO Whistleblowers" are frauds and attention-seekers. Some may be legit-- in which case I'd say deniability is much higher when you're dealing with something many people not only don't believe in, but see as silly, and worthy of ridicule.

Well for most of us, guys anyway, we were suspicious from the moment we saw the hot babe he left behind. There is definitely something wrong with a guy who leaves a great job in paradise while living with an exotic dancer.

That dropped a whole bunch of red flags for every red blood male, lol

He either a closet Gay or definitely some sort of Setup, lol.

What you think.

The Bot

Simply because its muuuch worse than Snowden has let on or probably even knows.

Originally posted by Xtraeme
Here's something I've been wondering. Why didn't the US intelligence community release a statement to the media simply saying Snowden's powerpoint slides were fabricated? The NSA could have easily told the press it was a lie constructed by a disgruntled employee. How would the public have been any bit the wiser?

Because then somebody else could have confirmed the factual information, reducing the NSA's credibility even more. There are thousands of cleared people who have some insight. A Congressmember on the intelligence committee could subpoena managers of the NSA and question them under oath. If the NSA still dissembles, they might hit the NSA's budget.

I find this to be curious because of the implications it has for the UFO subject. None of the leaked documents discovered by UFO researchers (MAJIC, Vannevar Bush letter to Truman, etc.) have ever been legitimized. So what does that tell us?

Most likely, that the UFO documents weren't actually leaks of legitimate documents and hence there wasn't any governmental interest.

Remember the NSA's operations are ongoing, and known and vast. There is a major institutional and financial footprint. Where is it for the supposed Men In Black, etc? I don't see it. In any case, covering up UFO's isn't illegal and doesn't bother millions of voters, but intrusive and pervasive domestic spying by an agency which is supposed to only work on foreign targets does anger many people.

reply to post by Xtraeme

You point can be only drawn if someone accepts your assumption that when there is a leak from the government files to the public, there is an immediate attempt by the government to cover it up - all that headed by the denial that such alleged material exists. But such an assumption is hard to take in the face of the realities that surround Snowden's singing. The reaction of the government has been clear as a crystal: Yes, we do spy on other folks by monitoring the cyberspace; yes, we do all the bad things that would make you upset. Now there is the good news: we are not such bad guys as you might think - we pleaded guilty by telling you the truth.

So where does your assumption of the government not telling the truth come from? From those UFO buffs who supplement their income by devising various UFO conspiracies to get that ET thrill moving?

Originally posted by iwilliam
On that note-- I suspect a number of "UFO Whistleblowers" are frauds and attention-seekers. Some may be legit-- in which case I'd say deniability is much higher when you're dealing with something many people not only don't believe in, but see as silly, and worthy of ridicule.

That is a great, succinct description of the problem. I would have to agree.

Originally posted by mbkennel
There is a major institutional and financial footprint. Where is it for the supposed Men In Black, etc? I don't see it.

Well it's good a few people caught my point.

This is why in the second post I said,

"Basically I think this helps prove the whole UFO subject is a grand foul-up rather than a grand conspiracy cover-up."

Originally posted by tremex
So where does your assumption of the government not telling the truth come from? From those UFO buffs who supplement their income by devising various UFO conspiracies to get that ET thrill moving? You point can be only drawn if someone accepts your assumption that when there is a leak from the government files to the public, there is an immediate attempt by the government to cover it up - all that headed by the denial that such alleged material exists. But such an assumption is hard to take in the face of the realities that surround Snowden's singing. ... Now there is the good news: we are not such bad guys as you might think - we pleaded guilty by telling you the truth.

First I'd like to dispel the notion that "Now there is the good news: we are not such bad guys as you might think - we pleaded guilty by telling you the truth." The official story has been all along that the NSA doesn't spy on American citizens. The media is in an uproar because no one believes that to be true (or as it is colloquially known a lie).

So where does your assumption of the government not telling the truth come from?

That is easy enough to answer ...

Hushed up for decades: How 749 U.S. troops died in practice for D-Day

Atomic Energy Commission and Downwinders

10 People Who Exposed US Government Secrets And Lies

(or, if you believe the Washington Post, see the previous paragraph)

The general pattern I see is that when declassified documents are properly released. There seems to be a hope that the public will avoid discussing the unpleasant aspects of what's unveiled.

Basically the formula works like this. Let whatever unpleasant situation you have sit for a couple decades, let all the people who would be uproarious about the documentation age to the point where they're no longer capable of revolting, and then say, "Woops!"

It's a great tactic.

However, my point, which you seemed to miss is that the majority of the documents about MAJIC were never legitimized. Which tells me the papers are probably chaff (most everyone already assumed this — I'm just using recent events to highlight the point).

I would be reticent to not point out though that the documents released by the USAF through NARA is whole 'nother kettle fish and is completely separate from what I'm trying to say about the more conspiratorial documents that have been published.

I think anyone who bothers to read through the Blue Book case files will quickly realize the USAF was frequently as clueless as the people seeing weird lights. All I am pointing out is I don't think there is a systemic coverup behind the UFO subject. It is just a bunch of people who have no idea what to do or what the hell is going on.

edit on 22-8-2013 by Xtraeme because: (no reason given)

I think Snowden probably had so many documents in his possession that they didn't want to risk a reaction from him resulting from denial. Better to stop before it gets worse.

Its probable that his "ufo" info was just written reports from people who have called in sightings, and someone like Snowden probably had some file or case. He may have been such a skeptic as well that it was apparently mind boggling to him that the government had interest in ufo's, which led him to believe they could be real.