Will GMO supporters enroll their families in a five-year exclusively GMO-only-diet program?

reply to post by Kurius


I like the idea, and for meats that aren't created using GMO's feed them (the contestants) meat fed exclusively with GMO's.
Then do the same thing with a family eating organically and compare health results, preferably with families that have similiar age/health stats.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by dominicus

 

The bet is 100k 12 months GMOs foods with every meal I eat no law suits involved on my end I am not concerned. I get tumors I pay I don't then you pay it is that simple.

Are you in or out?

Only Monsanto/DuPont/Dow based GMO's????? HELL YEAH I'm in for 100k!!!!!!

How do we keep all the checks an balances in check? WHo's funding it? MRI's, Monthly checkups, blood tests, CT-scans......

Also your 26 years of past smoking concerns me that you may already have some lurking issues.

reply to post by dominicus


Are you trying to find yourself an out. You keep bringing up checks past smoking and such after all if at the end of 12 months I have tumors you win but if I don't then I win and you owe me 100k. It doesn't really make sense for you to be concerned for my health unless you want to lose.

It could all be done as easily as the super size me vid was done except I would video tape myself eating portions of GMOs every day for 365 days and at the end get a checkup for any tumors and if none are found you owe me $100,000 if some are then I owe you $100,000 of course this would all be covered in a binding contract.

reply to post by Kurius


Sorry I didn't check your reply until after I posted. Either way the control guranteeing I am eating my GMOs can be figured out pretty easy. BTW do you think Corn flakes are made with GMOs I pretty much eat those when I have breakfast anyway.

Funny thing about this whole thing is if I ate three meals a day containing GMOs it would mean I would be eating far healthier than I have since I was in the ARMY and I guarantee they fed us stuff with GMOs in it have you ever read the ingredient packages for an MRE. An experiment like this will probably leave me in better shape than I am now.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by dominicus

 

Are you trying to find yourself an out. You keep bringing up checks past smoking and such after all if at the end of 12 months I have tumors you win but if I don't then I win and you owe me 100k. It doesn't really make sense for you to be concerned for my health unless you want to lose.

It could all be done as easily as the super size me vid was done except I would video tape myself eating portions of GMOs every day for 365 days and at the end get a checkup for any tumors and if none are found you owe me $100,000 if some are then I owe you $100,000 of course this would all be covered in a binding contract.

I'm not trying to find an out, but you must be either deaf, blind, or dumb..........I said it about 3 times now that your 26 years of smoking is HUGE issue to any double blind study with control groups.

Also, the fact that I don't want you to die, means i'd feel safer if there were monthly Ct-Scans/MRI's/Blood work. Who's going to fund that and who's going to be around you like a hawk 24/7 to make sure you're eating all the poisons as part of the bet?

There's too many loose ends at this point. If we were both early 20's/30's, good health, never smoked, then I'd be all for it.

If we are going to set this up, we might as well make it count and add more people. Though our little personal bet would still stand. If just you did it, then all the pro-gmo commies will blame your tumors on smoking or other facors, and say it was one person which does not equal and double blind study

reply to post by dominicus


You are under the impression I would be doing it for a study?


Only the anti-GMO group thinks they are poison. I consider the hole thing as credible as the fluoride in the water group just slightly higher than the chemtrail group. Sorry I was good with the free food bills but this is a side bet. Maybe you didn't know but people have been eating GMOs for 20 years or more without an outbreak of tumors.

If you are basing your ideas off of the lab rat study that was extremely flawed and in case you didn't read it they were also putting roundup in their water. Other than that study I have no idea where you are basing the idea of tumors from. Oh yeah I have probably been eating them regularly for nearly 20 years to me this is a suckers bet I am not worried. Let others worry about a study this is about money.

Anyway U2u me from here out so we can set it up the OP wants to keep the thread about a study which I doubt he would get investors.

reply to post by Grimpachi

Sorry I was good with the free food bills but this is a side bet. Maybe you didn't know but people have been eating GMOs for 20 years or more without an outbreak of tumors

AMerica is number one country for cancer, and is the only country where GMO's are pretty much in just about everything......if you don't see a correlation then you will start seeing it soon, as more new numerous studies are just now coming out and on the verge of coming out. There's a new pig study fed only gmo's showing how torn up and destroyed their stomachs get. There's the study showing the gmo groups specifically alter human dna.......it's all on its way out.

We are today, where big tobacco was in the 60's/70's where everyone thought it was normal/cool/healthy to smoke and not a single brainwashed moron knew better. Then little by little, all the studies started coming out showing the truth about smoking, all the while being squashed/silenced by Big Tobacco who was funding their won medical studies showing that smoking is beneficial.

History repeats itself in cycles. Study Big Tobacco and you'll see where Monsata/BASF/DuPont/Dow is headed with their crops

Anyway U2u me from here out so we can set it up the OP wants to keep the thread about a study which I doubt he would get investors.

Tho whole reason I am willing to bet, is because I am looking forward to a documentary along side a double blind control group study with over-sight and monthly check-ups. Considering I work full time and don't trust you doing this by yourself without oversight, there's too many holes in solidifying the bet.

reply to post by dominicus


Have you read the study about the pigs I have and it was extremely flawed but if there is another one under way then great I will read the study then.

The old study on pigs reported that pigs fed GMOs had severely inflamed stomachs, "the authors note that pigs fed non-GMO diets also had inflamed stomachs, but failed to mention in their conclusion that there were more pigs with inflamed stomachs that had eaten non-GMO diet. Such inflammation is common in animals with high feed intake or feed that has been finely ground. If that was the study you were talking about I still have no worries.

BTW you do realize there are many factors that are involved with cancer in the US. Being a surfer and scuba diver has made me concerned about skin cancer especially being in tropical regions. Sunblock is a must.

Hey guys (esp Grimpachi & dominicus), there is no real point of bickering on the same details over again (you could PM each other instead including your bet discuassion). There is no easy way of telling 100% what study is legitimate or flawed unless you were personally involved or have spoken to someone whom you can believe in who was in the research projects themselves. Were you/have you? However, on the subject of credibility, who would most people likely to believe: the French scientists who risk their reputation (plus that of the organization they work for) and career (probably lives too) or faceless someone who came out with the "flawed" theories without any evidence that support their claims nor a clear effort to replicate the study? A minority few would still believe the latter for reasons unknown to others but themselves. Are they right? I'm certainly not in the position to make judgement.

Again let me stress my two primary major concerns with regards to GMO's food if anyone missed those in my previous posts:

1. Why has there been no proper five-year study on human subjects under stringent controlled test environment but we were instead deceived to consume SOME GMO products disguised and slipped in the very food we eat? Why were we not informed (no public awareness campaign nor [big] mainstream media reports and no debate when it first started)? Without the Internet, I think I would have been in the dark all this time! Thanks to Al Gore (who claimed to have invented the internet).

2. Why should anyone support few corporations who clearly are striving to monopolize all food productions? When it comes to sources of primary consumables, we shouldn't be at all comfortable with this idea. Personally, I would much prefer a freer market with individual farmers allowed to sell their produce directly to consumers. On the contrary, from the report below, the government who seems to be in a cozy relationship with these corporate giants, is trying to curtail this option instead on the pretext that they could be dangerous (discounting the fact that they have a dodgy track-record keeping the food they "inspected" safe). And we have read, heard, seen many online videos of similar first-hand cases of controlling direct farmers sales also.

"For the USDA and its sister food regulator, the FDA, there’s a problem: many of the farmers are distributing the food via private contracts like herd shares and leasing arrangements, which fall outside the regulatory system of state and local retail licenses and inspections that govern public food sales. In response, federal and state regulators are seeking legal sanctions against farmers in Maine, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and California, among others. These sanctions include injunctions, fines, and even prison sentences. Food sold by unlicensed and uninspected farmers is potentially dangerous say the regulators, since it can carry pathogens like salmonella, campylobacter, and E.coli O157:H7, leading to mild or even serious illness. Why are hard-working normally law-abiding farmers aligning with urban and suburban consumers to flaunt well-established food safety regulations and statutes? Why are parents, who want only the best for their children, seeking out food that regulators say could be dangerous? And, why are regulators and prosecutors feeling so threatened by this trend? Members of these private food groups often buy from local farmers because they want food from animals that are treated humanely, allowed to roam on pasture, and not treated with antibiotics. “I really want food that is full of nutrients and the animals to be happy and content,” says Jenny DeLoney, a Madison, WI, mother of three young children who buys from Hershberger."

Link

Originally posted by Kurius

Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by dominicus

 

No, simply common courtesy is just fine.

The problem is, the US is not number one in all cancers, and there is yet a cause and effect link.

"Cancer" is not a monolithic disease but a set of a hundred or so different diseases all with different causal factors. Anything that is purported to cause everything is just as suspect as anything that is purported to cause everything.

Sure, I'd take the bet proposed by the OP just like I received all of my vaccinations. Sometimes belief systems take on a certain fanatical bent, absent the evidence, just because people "feel" that it must be so.

Ok, we have Grimphaci, NavyDoc, Phage and LucidDream and their family members so far who are willing to be the guinea pigs for GMO food.

You have brought up a good point...and that is the very issue that is extremely mind-blowing to individuals like myself. Why the "fanatical bent"? Since when has it become a religious jihad? Why would anyone willingly sacrifice themselves and loved ones for Monsanto, etc plus their shareholders? Are these giants so poor and helpless they they need you and your children's protection? Shouldn't you really insist on proper acceptable-to-all system in place to really control test GM food instead? Saying we have been consuming it for 20 odd years is certainly not a controlled test (aren't you furious no one warned you of this covert "experiment" in the first place?). The question you should ask yourselves is: why would you side with these corporations...not the general population? What are you/family to gain or already profiting from GMO's? We are certainly not running out of food tomorrow, are we? Of course, the longer we wait, the more power given to these already-powerful corporations, the more likely the entire system will be held hostage at some point in the future. By then, no one will be able to insist on anything...much less a long-term study without risking the entire food production shut down causing massive panic and possible collapse. Do you really want this to happen? Similar situation is already happening with the western banking system, if you don't already know or learn from.

It would probably be wise for us to have an in-depth reflection, evaluation and healthy skepticism (probably on both sides of the issue) before sacrificing or pledging our allegiance to Godsanto. C'mon, seriously? Our children too?

It has nothing to do with "siding" with a corporation and everything to do with an evidence based decision making process, not a fear driven, paranoid one.

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Kurius

Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by dominicus

 

No, simply common courtesy is just fine.

The problem is, the US is not number one in all cancers, and there is yet a cause and effect link.

"Cancer" is not a monolithic disease but a set of a hundred or so different diseases all with different causal factors. Anything that is purported to cause everything is just as suspect as anything that is purported to cause everything.

Sure, I'd take the bet proposed by the OP just like I received all of my vaccinations. Sometimes belief systems take on a certain fanatical bent, absent the evidence, just because people "feel" that it must be so.

Ok, we have Grimphaci, NavyDoc, Phage and LucidDream and their family members so far who are willing to be the guinea pigs for GMO food.

You have brought up a good point...and that is the very issue that is extremely mind-blowing to individuals like myself. Why the "fanatical bent"? Since when has it become a religious jihad? Why would anyone willingly sacrifice themselves and loved ones for Monsanto, etc plus their shareholders? Are these giants so poor and helpless they they need you and your children's protection? Shouldn't you really insist on proper acceptable-to-all system in place to really control test GM food instead? Saying we have been consuming it for 20 odd years is certainly not a controlled test (aren't you furious no one warned you of this covert "experiment" in the first place?). The question you should ask yourselves is: why would you side with these corporations...not the general population? What are you/family to gain or already profiting from GMO's? We are certainly not running out of food tomorrow, are we? Of course, the longer we wait, the more power given to these already-powerful corporations, the more likely the entire system will be held hostage at some point in the future. By then, no one will be able to insist on anything...much less a long-term study without risking the entire food production shut down causing massive panic and possible collapse. Do you really want this to happen? Similar situation is already happening with the western banking system, if you don't already know or learn from.

It would probably be wise for us to have an in-depth reflection, evaluation and healthy skepticism (probably on both sides of the issue) before sacrificing or pledging our allegiance to Godsanto. C'mon, seriously? Our children too?

It has nothing to do with "siding" with a corporation and everything to do with an evidence based decision making process, not a fear driven, paranoid one.

edit on 15-8-2013 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

And how can you be 1!0% sure that you have been fed the right evidence yourself? Are you involved personally in these projects or know someone who is? How do you know you are not given the so-called "poison"? Has there been a strong reason for you to "side" with these corporations or willingly be made tool of to highlight the "poison" in order to confuse the general public further?

Do not confuse "fear" and being careful. Most of us are just being careful. There is no reason to be fearless and careless.

[SNIP]

Originally posted by Kurius

Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by Kurius

Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by dominicus

 

No, simply common courtesy is just fine.

The problem is, the US is not number one in all cancers, and there is yet a cause and effect link.

"Cancer" is not a monolithic disease but a set of a hundred or so different diseases all with different causal factors. Anything that is purported to cause everything is just as suspect as anything that is purported to cause everything.

Sure, I'd take the bet proposed by the OP just like I received all of my vaccinations. Sometimes belief systems take on a certain fanatical bent, absent the evidence, just because people "feel" that it must be so.

Ok, we have Grimphaci, NavyDoc, Phage and LucidDream and their family members so far who are willing to be the guinea pigs for GMO food.

You have brought up a good point...and that is the very issue that is extremely mind-blowing to individuals like myself. Why the "fanatical bent"? Since when has it become a religious jihad? Why would anyone willingly sacrifice themselves and loved ones for Monsanto, etc plus their shareholders? Are these giants so poor and helpless they they need you and your children's protection? Shouldn't you really insist on proper acceptable-to-all system in place to really control test GM food instead? Saying we have been consuming it for 20 odd years is certainly not a controlled test (aren't you furious no one warned you of this covert "experiment" in the first place?). The question you should ask yourselves is: why would you side with these corporations...not the general population? What are you/family to gain or already profiting from GMO's? We are certainly not running out of food tomorrow, are we? Of course, the longer we wait, the more power given to these already-powerful corporations, the more likely the entire system will be held hostage at some point in the future. By then, no one will be able to insist on anything...much less a long-term study without risking the entire food production shut down causing massive panic and possible collapse. Do you really want this to happen? Similar situation is already happening with the western banking system, if you don't already know or learn from.

It would probably be wise for us to have an in-depth reflection, evaluation and healthy skepticism (probably on both sides of the issue) before sacrificing or pledging our allegiance to Godsanto. C'mon, seriously? Our children too?

It has nothing to do with "siding" with a corporation and everything to do with an evidence based decision making process, not a fear driven, paranoid one.

edit on 15-8-2013 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

And how can you be 1!0% sure that you have been fed the right evidence yourself? Are you involved personally in these projects or know someone who does? How do you know you are not given the so-called "poison"? Has there been a strong reason for you to "side" with these corporations or willingly be made tool of to highlight the "poison" in order to confuse the general public further?

Again, please read...

OMG, I know this is ATS, but not everyone is a disinfo agent.

I've read the stuff and the science is not sound and has the same fanaticism as the fluoridation and chemtrail crowd.

reply to post by Kurius

You and logic are not well acquainted. Do you do your own experiments to prove that GMO foods are harmful or do you rely on testimony of other "faceless" experts? You don't? Oh, so you rely on the word of other people to make a decision...a decision that is driven more than ideology than science it seems.

I get it...corporations are evil and "genetically modified" sounds scary.


Luddites.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
reply to post by Kurius

 

You and logic are not well acquainted. Do you do your own experiments to prove that GMO foods are harmful or do you rely on testimony of other "faceless" experts? You don't? Oh, so you rely on the word of other people to make a decision...a decision that is driven more than ideology than science it seems.

I get it...corporations are evil and "genetically modified" sounds scary.


Luddites.

C'mon....if you read all my posts carefully, I have not once asserted that GMO food is harmful (I wouldn't propose this experiment otherwise. ). Unlike you, I don't know 110% one way or another. I certainly wouldn't risk my loved ones' lives over it. As I said, I have two primary concerns. In case you miss them:

1. Why has there been no proper five-year study on human subjects under stringent controlled test environment but we were instead deceived to consume SOME GMO products disguised and slipped in the very food we eat? Why were we not informed (no public awareness campaign nor [big] mainstream media reports and no debate when it first started)? Without the Internet, I think I would have been in the dark all this time! Thanks to Al Gore (who claimed to have invented the internet).

2. Why should anyone support few corporations who clearly are striving to monopolize all food productions? When it comes to sources of primary consumables, we shouldn't be at all comfortable with this idea. Personally, I would much prefer a freer market with individual farmers allowed to sell their produce directly to consumers. On the contrary, from the report below, the government who seems to be in a cozy relationship with these corporate giants, is trying to curtail this option instead on the pretext that they could be dangerous (discounting the fact that they have a dodgy track-record keeping the food they "inspected" safe). And we have read, heard, seen many online videos of similar first-hand cases of controlling direct farmers sales also.

Originally posted by Kurius

 

 

The "off-topic" posts were meant to deter other "off-topic" posts and bickering.
I'm not sure why they are removed and without warning? But that's ok.

Ok, I think it is time to wrap this thread up, Folks.
As I stated in the OP, it was a hypothetical experiment. It would have been a logistical nightmare for a real experiment like this to recruit their subjects from the ATS forum. For it to be plausible, participants should ideally be living in close proximity [to the physical test center for regular monitoring].

As the thread progressed, some suggestions were made with regards to how this could possibly be implemented effectively. I thank those who shared their thoughts and inputs.

While this was never going to materialize as I certainly wouldn't possess the right background and expertise to carry out this GMO experiment, the idea certainly wasn't far-fetched. If the GMO giants and regulators had the interest of public safety at heart, this would have been the first thing done. Quietly adding it to the food that people eat has been immoral to say the least. We, as individuals should be have been informed from day one and proper long-term tests should have been implemented in aspects not only concerning health and environment but also the long-term projected social/political implications should few be protected and allowed to control the rights to seeds (which look no different from normal seeds but aren't the same). Are corporations evil? Not necessarily so, but the saying "power corrupts" certainly isn't without merits. There have already been precedents and various signs this is happening that we can learn from (if we choose to open our eyes).

In this thread, we have witnessed a few ATS members who expressed their willingness to be subjects in the program. I thank them for their participation in this exercise and apologize if my remarks have offended anyone concerned. I am certainly learning more not only about GMO issues and people's belief construct, but importantly about my own self through this thread. I hope too most would take the time to retreat and reflect their own stance on the issue (or any issue) and avoid getting emotionally attached to a belief system which may or may not be true. Along with this, I would recommend caution (as oppose to fear). Do we really know ourselves for certain (without the slightest doubt) what is fact, what is fiction? If the answer is a resounding 'no' and all we have is a leap of faith, that means this belief has morphed itself into a religion for us. And we know what those extremism's do to societies. The way to avoid the pitfall is to constantly question everything without jumping into definite conclusions (esp prematurely). In the case of GMO, the real fat lady hasn't sung....and she probably won't be allowed to for a long time.

I hope it will one day soon with independent, publicly-funded resources, a long-term experiment like proposed here be implemented for the sake of future generations, if not our own. If they read this thread, I hope they will contact Grimpachi as he is in sincere need of free food. This will be my last post on this thread. I wish everyone a cautious, healthy life.