Foreign modesty laws in Brooklyn.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

I'm sure all those people obsessing over Sharia "creeping" into the US also find ways to excuse Jews practicing Sharia like laws in the US.

What is your point, please? Are you saying that Americans are 'partial' to the Jews? That is just erroneous. Religious intolerance is not tolerated here.

Dude, aren't you a Canadian? Maybe I dreamed it. In any case:
For what reason did you make this thread?

reply to post by wildtimes

What is your point, please? Are you saying that Americans are 'partial' to the Jews? That is just erroneous. Religious intolerance is not tolerated here.

I 'm not going to comment on Americans being partial to the Jews...thats a different topic altogether as it can branch off into a separate tangent.

My point is that we clearly see different reactions towards what is pretty much the same thing.
Both conservative Muslims / Jews dress a certain way, eat certain foods, keep certain practices in accordance to their religions. Yet only one group is accused of bringing in a foreign religious laws into the USA whereas the other group is left alone.

If Muslim full body covering and Halal meat are definite signs that Shariah is gaining a foothold in the US - as claimed by anti-Sharia groups - then where does it leave Jewish full body covering and their Kosher meats? Not to mention, their modesty laws in Brooklyn and the Menorah in front of the white house?

Is that supposed to mean Jewish religious law (which is also middle eastern) are also taking over America?

What I don't understand is anyone complying. That should have sparked off thousands of young woman in bikinis biking circles around them.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


So these "morals squads" - what do they do to Brooklyn's 'noncompliant' women? Block a bike path? They aren't performing honor killings or lobbing bombs at the houses of those 'noncompliant' people.

I know you like to defend "Sharia", but it seems you simply won't acknowledge that American people have been horrified by what the MSM spreads. The VIOLENCE of Islam is not something that can be ignored.

No one is happy about the bank scandals and "capitalist" corruption either - but you persist in trying to point out everyone else's flaws rather than addressing Islamists' flaws and the very real, deadly danger that they DO want to spread.

In my view, they are equally bad news... could you explain why you have become a Muslim apologist? I gathered from other posts of yours that you are a convert. Why so invested?

Originally posted by mamabeth

Originally posted by WilsonWilson
Orthodox judaism is one of the most oppressive religions for women.
It is very hard for any criticism of judaism, because immediately you are accused of being anti semitic,

The most oppressive religion for women is islam!

Pretty much all of them are oppressive in one form or another.

reply to post by wildtimes

So these "morals squads" - what do they do to Brooklyn's 'noncompliant' women? Block a bike path? They aren't performing honor killings or lobbing bombs at the houses of those 'noncompliant' people.

You're looking for reasons to excuse one group of people... who are live exactly the same way as the other group thats being demonized.

The point of this thread was to demonstrate how a certain group has managed to enforce their foreign religious laws in the USA and gotten away with it quietly....WHILE there are movements spreading propaganda about another foreign religious law.

As for honor killings, that's an entirely different subject and are known to take place in Hindu and Sikh communities as well. Not going to waste my time addressing that one.

I know you like to defend "Sharia",

I was pointing out the hypocrisy when it comes to dealing with Shariah.
To illustrate.... all those people vilifying Halal meats as a sign of Shariah take over .... are silent as a grave about Kosher meats in the market - which are pretty much the SAME as Halal meats.

The hypocrisy is astonishing.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


It's amusing how you decide for me what I think and why I think it, what I want, and what my aims are. I've already acknowledged that the media distorts things.

Americans are used to kosher foods and Amish dress codes - we know that those people aren't trying to "convert" anyone and pretty much keep to themselves.

I've also acknowledged the U.S. "foreign policy" problem. What more do you want me to do? You are the one who is looking to vilify others ---->> ANYONE who isn't in love with Islam. I don't like ANY of the organized religions, sk0rp. Period. End of story. They ALL do damage to innocent people in one way or another.

Originally posted by MrSpad
If their were enough hard core Jews they could pass laws based on religion like Christians banning alcohol in certain towns and counties, making it illegal to buy achohol before a certain time or at all on Sundays, anti nudity laws. Look up Blue Laws in the US, these are religious based laws.

I don't know about nudity, but traditional alcohol prohibition is progressive, and to some extent anti-immigrant, not necessarily religious. Christian men in these areas drank all the time, until the progressives showed up and convinced them they should not. Prohibition was championed by women, and as churches in America are women's social clubs, their ideas infected some churches, but they did not originate with the religion. (If they were really motivated by religion, they'd ban alcohol sales on Saturday, so everyone would be sober Sunday morning ... the goal is to have them sober on the first day of the work week.)

Interesting thread.

The parallels between Judaism and Islam are also interesting. Like they're branches of the same religion split in the old days like two sects.

In any case, watched the video of the fat Hasidic and the cyclist and was completely disgusted.

Hitler made sure you could never say a negative thing about a Jew even if it's the truth. Sounds like another group we know.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Dear sk0rpi0n,

I just found your thread. I know that I get annoyed when supporters of Islam refuse to answer my questions or dodge issues, so it's only fair for me to answer your questions as well as I am able.

First, your main question seems to be;

So then, where is the outrage from all those Americans claiming Shariah — a foreign religious law — is gaining foothold in the USA?

This is the first I've heard of it, I suspect it's the first you've heard of it too. I don't go in much for instantaneous outrage, that kind of behavior leads to thoughtless violence, which while applauded in some parts of the world, is not to my taste.

You mention dress codes and kosher food preparation, and you point out what you see as hypocrisy by saying:

You're looking for reasons to excuse one group of people... who are live exactly the same way as the other group thats being demonized.

I think it's fairly safe to assure you that if the only things Muslims were doing, was enforcing dress codes on members of the own faith and preparing and eating food the way they want to, Muslims would be accepted world-wide with open arms.

Despite what you claim, ultra-Orthodox Jews do not live exactly the same as Muslims, and it is not reasonable of you to suggest it. Muslims have no difficulty in imposing their rules on outsiders and non-believers, by force or jail, if necessary. Ultra-Orthodox do not. Muslims kill to advance the sect of Islam they happen to belong to, ultra-Orthodox do not.

This business about the bicycle lane, that seems so important? It's a bit different than you might suppose. It's not about immodest bicyclists at all.

Satmar community members say the no-stopping, no-standing signage on Kent is hurting their businesses, and they're not the only ones objecting. Even goyem business owners like Justine Franko, owner of the furniture and home furnishings shop Om Sweet Home, say the bike lanes are discouraging customers who can't find parking. Franko tells Brooklyn Paper that during a typically strong week in mid-November—when she could usually count on between $1,500 and $2,000 in revenue—she earned only $200. She says she's "mortified. If things don’t change, I won’t last six months."

Abraham promises the protests will occur every morning from 8–10 a.m. and 4–7 p.m. and will be accompanied by rallies. Local resident Leo Moskowitz tells Brooklyn Paper, "I don’t like it, but if that is what needs to be done to get their attention, people are going to do it." Little Italy business owners opposed to the new Grand Street bike lane will surely be watching to see if this tactic works.

gothamist.com...

They protested five hours a day in order to keep on-street parking. If they really wanted to keep near-naked bicyclists out, it would have been 24 hours a day. Besides, bicyclists don't need to have a bike lane. Not having one doesn't keep bicyclists off the streets.

Now that I've had time to think about it, I don't think you'll be getting any outrage from me.

If, on the other hand, we're talking about killing artists who draw cartoons of Mohammed, then you'll get some outrage. Not as much as there should have been, but it upset me.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


It could be just a bunch of older Jewish people in the community making a big stink over social change they cannot get a handle on inside their heads. Still have to be careful with this kind of thing. It could gain ground but that is highly I think. There are the extreme Muslim groups who try the same thing and they never get very far with it.

reply to post by charles1952

I think it's fairly safe to assure you that if the only things Muslims were doing, was enforcing dress codes on members of the own faith and preparing and eating food the way they want to, Muslims would be accepted world-wide with open arms.

First, off this thread was about foreign religious laws in place in the USA....where Muslim dress-codes and diets have always been for Muslims.

Despite what you claim, ultra-Orthodox Jews do not live exactly the same as Muslims, and it is not reasonable of you to suggest it.

When it comes to full body coverings and a specific diets and monotheism, they are pretty much the same. You obviously have your reasons to deny this truth, but that's a personal thing I guess.

Muslims have no difficulty in imposing their rules on outsiders and non-believers, by force or jail, if necessary.

I was talking about foreign religious laws (of the Jews and the Muslims) in the USA.
Conservative Jews, as I have shown in the OP, have managed to impose their standards on outsiders, at least in a small way.... i.e - Sending threats over short skirts and blocking off bicycle lanes over shorts.

I bet if it were a group of Muslims who did this....

reply to post by wildtimes

Americans are used to kosher foods and Amish dress codes - we know that those people aren't trying to "convert" anyone and pretty much keep to themselves.

Americans are only used to kosher foods because of Jewish influence over many aspects of American life. Its the same reason Americans are used to values promoted by the Jewish media, as admitted by the American vice president.

Secondly, if Kosher isn't part of some grand scheme to bring in Jewish law for everybody in America, then the same applies to Halal as well. Both foods are for and by people who prefer a religiously sanctioned diet.

Originally posted by suz62
Interesting thread.

The parallels between Judaism and Islam are also interesting. Like they're branches of the same religion split in the old days like two sects.

In any case, watched the video of the fat Hasidic and the cyclist and was completely disgusted.

Hitler made sure you could never say a negative thing about a Jew even if it's the truth. Sounds like another group we know.

you can say negative things about jews....you just don't have to worry about getting killed for it like in the Islamic religion

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

reply to post by wildtimes

 

Americans are used to kosher foods and Amish dress codes - we know that those people aren't trying to "convert" anyone and pretty much keep to themselves.

Americans are only used to kosher foods because of Jewish influence over many aspects of American life. Its the same reason Americans are used to values promoted by the Jewish media, as admitted by the American vice president.

Secondly, if Kosher isn't part of some grand scheme to bring in Jewish law for everybody in America, then the same applies to Halal as well. Both foods are for and by people who prefer a religiously sanctioned diet.

you must live in a pretty isolated part of America...but nobody out here in California is "used to kosher foods"...nor in the northwest, in the central plains, in the southwest, in the southeast, in the great lakes area...New York city is not America, even though the people that live in New York city think so...you hate Jews, we get it.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Dear sk0rpi0n,

Thank you for your response. Whether we agree or not, I'm grateful that you post. You show me that there is another side to this subject with which I have to deal. Thanks.

First, off this thread was about foreign religious laws in place in the USA....where Muslim dress-codes and diets have always been for Muslims.

I'm confused by this. If we're adhering strictly to the wording of the topic and headline, there are no foreign modesty "laws" in Brooklyn. There are codes of behavior which the followers of the religion are expected to abide by, but there are no laws legally binding on anyone. In an Islamic system, these codes of behaviors are actually laws, violation of which may result in trial, fines, imprisonment, or judicial physical punishment.

When it comes to full body coverings and a specific diets and monotheism, they are pretty much the same. You obviously have your reasons to deny this truth, but that's a personal thing I guess.

Oh, I accept that truth, but you have difficulty accepting the idea that Orthodox Jews and Muslims live differently? One of the more prominent points of difference is how the two groups treat people of different religions. The Orthodox tend to be strict with their fellow believers, just as Muslims (although the Jews aren't big fans of stonings and beheadings), but the Muslims are also strict with anybody who just happens to be nearby, Muslim or not.

Conservative Jews, as I have shown in the OP, have managed to impose their standards on outsiders, at least in a small way.... i.e - Sending threats over short skirts and blocking off bicycle lanes over shorts.

And here, I must disagree with you. It's tough to read every post in the thread, but newspaper reports and interviews (which I cited a little earlier in this thread) show that the bicycle lane issue had nothing to do with shorts, but with the fact that putting in a bicycle lane would eliminate on-street parking for all the shops, Jew and non-Jew alike.

Nothing in the OP or the articles indicated there were even threats against outsiders by anyone, with the possible exception of a few extreme individuals but not the community.

I bet if it were a group of Muslims who did this....

If that's all they did, I would find nothing wrong with it.

With respect,
Charles1952