Humanity Unconsciously Creates Thought-Forms (tulpas) and then Projects Them "Out There": UFOs

Do we even know what these things are? Besides the fact that they fly, disappear, we know nothing of it. And why would our collective unconscious create something like a saucer? Why not a flying tank, Why a saucer shaped thing?

The most reasonable answer is the most simplest one too- that these are actual crafts..either nuts and bolts tech or something different from being physical. I tend to go with the latter given its mysterious nature.

Tulpas..yeah could be.. but we are ignoring the facts at hand and running along with our own imagination.

@Earth23
I'm sorry that I have to disagree, because I believe that what you say 'should' be so, but I've traveled the part of 'the journey' you are now on, and though I continue to live Gandhi's admonishment, I have discovered that no amount of 'self' empowerment is enough to 'change' this world...children are still tortured to death, people still starve, the earth continues to die more and more, every hour of the day...

If we, like Archimedes, would "move the Earth", i.e. change the world, there is still the problem of needing "a place to stand"...I can "know that I am able to CHANGE THE UNIVERSE" until the cows come home, but no matter how thoroughly I 'know' that...well, it hasn't happened so far...

How can we cross a boundary that we have "collectively set up for ourselves", when the collective majority are the ones who dictate the limits?
I just don't see how the "Small can [ever] overcome...the Great" when the ratio between the two becomes more problematic by the year...
-------Sorry all for going off topic, being new, did not know how to reply to this without doing so------
P.S. Don't stop believing, Earth23. Despite what I've written, I am trying to 'keep the faith'...

reply to post by lostgirl

Hey LostGirl,
I understand your frustration about how this works, I have been there also, but do think that you need to reconsider exactly what you are saying. It is as if you expect for the world to FLIP instantaneously, when an Aware person reaches the point of Objective awareness. This is not the case, or after the first Enlightenment of a single soul, we would have all been Transformed immediately into Aware beings.

Each person is on a seemingly Separate Journey, and their PERCEPTION LOCKS them into the Rules of Engagement for their own UNIVERSE. Your statement:

I have discovered that no amount of 'self' empowerment is enough to 'change' this world...children are still tortured to death, people still starve, the earth continues to die more and more, every hour of the day

Is self defeating only if you think that some Super Climatic Rapture of all that is Evil is supposed to happen, as opposed to Gradual Self Transformation that builds up the Soul and causes an Evolutionary speed to occur as a greater number of souls arrive at an enlightened state of Being.

I suggest a reading and study of the TIBETAN BOOK OF THE DEAD. This will make things more understandable if you look into how Tulpa actually RULE humanity by consent of humans.

Again, you miss the point about how this works in ''Real Time",, now if we wish to speak of the ETERNAL NOW, it is a different story. But as most are locked into world views that only hinder viewing what is ahead, it is understandable.

When we talk about "Changing the Universe" it again is self referential and one can only STAND where ONE IS at the Present Moment and use the LEVER to MOVE THE EARTH for themselves FIRST.
Many people miss the point about Jesus and Buddha,,, both had to visit the Desert, sit under the Tree, before being Filled with the "Holy Spirit" or Enlightenment, and Both KNEW that they could FORCE NO ONE to Accept this Model of Belief,, it had to be done individually and by one's self WITHIN FIRST.

Thanks for the thoughts,, don't worry. I am very secure in my own Journey, and haven't the slightest worry about 'losing faith'.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen23
thanks for reminding me of some of my Favorite things about Jung. he has always been a Way Shower for me, and I am looking for some of my favorite writings of his to reread.

No prob. And yup, I'm a heyoka of sorts and a UFO contactee and a member of a peyote church.

And yup, I do frequent the astral mall college. I don't know if you've noticed or not but there has been a lot of conflict there lately. If indeed we are talking about the same place.

Have you read Jungs autobiography?

www.amazon.com...

Consider the implications as far as religion are concerned and deity worship, are these God's just Tulpa that feed off there followers and are they inherently vampiric requiring the continued energy of those that believe and worship them.
What of politicians (sorry I could not resist).

Originally posted by LABTECH767


Consider the implications as far as religion are concerned and deity worship, are these God's just Tulpa that feed off there followers and are they inherently vampiric requiring the continued energy of those that believe and worship them.
What of politicians

(sorry I could not resist).

edit on 11-8-2013 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)

The gods have always had an appetite of sorts. They rely on us to feed them. When they are too pure, too far removed from us, they can get a kind of hunger. That's when they need tricksters to cross or re-make boundaries that they can't and break taboos and shake things up and fling poo into the sacred meadow, so to speak, so that fertility returns to the spiritual soil and then God can be reborn.

Hence, Jungs vision of God taking a dump on his stale, infertile, sterilized Church, shattering the roof.

reply to post by BlueMule

BlueMule, I had thought you might have been a fellow Class Member of the Mall World, and Yes, I have noticed as others the change that has taken place in the past few months. I wonder about it very much, any thoughts you could PM if you like or hit the thread and answer there, I would be interested in your insights.

Memories, Dreams and Reflections!! I read it so long ago, and like some of his other works am looking into rereading for a followup, as I find sometimes a second look gives one a better view towards understanding,,, as does age..lol

reply to post by BlueMule


I've read Jung and McKenna, and some of the variations in concept like the Vallé/Hynek EDH theory. I believe that there is a collective consciousness, but don't necessarily ascribe to the interpretation that the individual is innately endowed with what is being called psychic ability, either knowingly or otherwise.

So, my understanding of a collective consciousness (CC) is tied to a quantum phenomenon that presumably records and plays back thoughts and emotions (desires?) through various life scenarios, but not in the sense that Jung or McKenna described. I also understood the Trickster as a sort of thought based medium for teaching and learning wisdom. In such a case the Trickster is a contrived third party of nature entity - representing the mystique and wonderment of life lessons and of pure wisdom from a higher plane, as opposed to its mythocentric exposition, given the reference points of modern thinking. The Trickster in this sense might be the most ancient human conception of deity, combining some of the attributes of modern day religion.

Getting back to the (CC), I mentioned a theoretical quantum force which holds information about the universe, from the structure of all matter, even the matter of thought, hopes, dreams etc.. Since it (material of thought) is everywhere presumably, like air (in fact we may be breathing and thinking within it) our thoughts, emotions, desire, hopes, dreams and fears are suspended and strung as complete units sort of like a folder of documents existing as zeros and ones on a hard drive. Every thought is constructed as a matrix of subatomic particles with numeric value.

We are talking about matters of "belief", rooted in the assimilation of reality perception, culture, tradition and the brain's attempt to explain things that generally disturb us with great wonder. The human mind has an inherent propensity for grabbing at resolutions that can satisfy what we "think" of as elusive, semisolid. Resolutions can become religious in nature and are mixed with some fact, science and imagination of the time.

These days it almost appears that some things we believed were much more mundane than assumed, once some of the facts were known, while other things we took for granted or were unclear have become scientifically more fantastic than the mystique our belief systems conjured.

I wondered if the theoretical epithelium where thoughts coalesce is also a medium for the existence of the three dimensional universe. If it is also the fabric of thought which contains the numerical information of the third dimensional structure we seem to exist in, this means that we also exist within the underlying structure that supports our (physical) universe. In essence, there would be the physical universe and its underlying intelligent driver which carries the structural information sustaining it. Our minds exist in both environments, while our bodies allow us to operate as expressions of thought in the three dimensional world. It could mean that we are the conception of thought matter originating from a procreative dimensional platform, albeit a sister universe unto itself. Whatever exists in the so-called physical world, solar systems, plants, people, also exists as a substructure on the thought plane or perhaps existed there first (I.E. a premortal existence?).

It is an infrastructure of thought matter, also serving the function of revelation (wisdom) which allows the consciousness on any level of evolution to tap in and "realize". Every individual feeds into his folder the information of his thoughts and experience, his reasoning, whether good or bad. The other intelligent element of the thought plane is the reaction to our thoughts. Desires we call dreams, things hoped for or needed - come back to us in the form of scenarios. I think we can see this information in self help and motivational books dealing with how positive thinking (thoughts, believing) leading to the fulfillment of desires.

As for applying UFOs, ETs and such to this idea, it is not a stretch to say that there are many beings who like us, live and operate much as we do, and are thus tied to the same dual system of thought and materiality. I believe we all (universally) create our scenarios of life unconsciously by what is foremost in our minds. But in historical context there is a body of documentation describing the ET abduction scenario of today, going back centuries. If greys in silver saucers are a psychic phenomenon of modern days why do they appear in documented descriptions of the medieval times? What were the greys of today doing abducting Europeans in public places in daylight 600 years ago?

Originally posted by BlueMule
Radar can't bounce off a dream... you can't take a photograph of a psychic object, can you?

"Oh yes, this is an important point to make, which the flying saucer people are forever misunderstanding, and that is that saying the flying saucer is a psychic object does not mean it is not a physical object. Jung in Mysterium Coniunctionis is at great pains to say that the realm of the psychic and the realm of the physical meet in a strange kind of never-never land that we have yet to create the intellectual tools to explore. This is where the mystery of synchronicity is going to come to rest, the mystery of all kinds of paranormal activity on the part of human beings, and the mystery of the flying saucer." -Terence McKenna

At the 2 hour 53 minute mark McKenna makes an interesting observation about how the human mind tends to want to insert an explanation when faced with something the brain can't explain. He argues this is an intractable problem because when we witness something new. The mind has a hard time appreciating the object for what it is since we have no model for it in our worldview. This is why the UFO subject is so damn difficult. People have to say, "It's all bunk and misidentifications." Or, "It's all ETs." Or, "It may be a new natural phenomena." There's very little wiggle room for a tentative, non-explicit middle-ground.

The direct quote is,

When there is cognitive dissonance the mind rushes forward to provide explanation. ... Cultural expectations are inextricably woven in to these strange encounter scenarios. There was an interesting UFO theory a few years ago that I thought was kind of cute. I didn't exactly believe it, but these people Michael Persinger and Lafreniere (sp?) they wrote a really amusing book called "Space Time Transients and Unusual Events" and one of the things they came up with was along earthquake faults you get the grinding of enormous masses of rock together and if these rock masses have a high percentage of quartz in them you can get what is called piezoelectric phenomena. Now piezoelectricity is simply a peculiar form of static electricity, but what it would do is create ball lightning in the sky which would follow these stress lines in the earth. And you know there is a connection, not understood, between earthquakes and the appearance of UFOs, but one of the interesting things Persinger discovered about piezoelectricity is that if you in the laboratory build piezoelectric generators that generate fields of enormous strength. Then as a person is exposed to these things they actually mess with your mind. They actually crea.. People become more and more confused and uneasy and ultimately panic stricken in the presence of these piezoelectric fields. Well once you pass the panic moment. Then your mind is going to start telling you what's happening. It's gonna say. You're having an encounter. Something weird is going on. And then out of the unconscious comes the projection. The flying saucer. The virgin Mary. The elf invasion. The manifestation of Maitreya. Whatever it is. So it's that mind goes to meet the unknown, but not without a hell of a lot of baggage of its own. Which it immediately tries to unpack and put into the drawers of the other as soon as it arrives.

Sociology Professor Robert Hall expressed a similar line of thinking in his '68 congressional panel report when he stated, "Lacking well-verified facts and explanations, people always seem to generate the news and the explanations that will reduce the ambiguity, thereby reduce the anxiety they have about uncertain situations."[1] I find it interesting that McKenna sees this as the "mind going to see the unknown." Where the traditionalist psychological viewpoint sees the interpretation as being induced by fear and therefore that's why the mind "immediately tries to unpack and put into the drawers of the other as soon as it arrives." I disagree with this in part because it assumes the person lacks curiosity and an ability to conceptually appreciate what it is they're observing for whatever it is. I see this as being no different than primitive man feeling wind and wondering. "Who's blowing?" It's the wrong question. Sure. But they were trying to come up with an explanation for the cause.

The point being I am not sure we're ready to answer certain questions.

Did everyone see the Ezekiel's space craft thread? Solid stuff.

Now, how does that info jive with this thread? Surely man wasn't thinking of space craft back then. Heck, he didn't really even have the proper words to describe what he was seeing. There is another element at play in all this.

Originally posted by JayinAR
Did everyone see the Ezekiel's space craft thread? Solid stuff.

Now, how does that info jive with this thread? Surely man wasn't thinking of space craft back then. Heck, he didn't really even have the proper words to describe what he was seeing. There is another element at play in all this.

I took a look at the OP. I didn't see any info. Just speculative illustrations.

One certainly can interpret religion in terms of ET orthodoxy.

Or one can interpret ET in terms of religious orthodoxy.

No way to know which is better than the other. I think both are missing something vital. All orthodoxy is structure, and structure is ephemeral. Sooner or later, anti-structure comes along.

I prefer a third option - a middle way. A road less traveled. That's what this thread is about.

reply to post by BlueMule


I think those illustrations are pretty solid.

If we assume that Ezekiel saw ANYTHING similar to what those illustrations show, it should argue to the point that not ALL of these events are psychological manifestations.

But as I said earlier, I agree with the basic premise of this thread as well. I just think there is more to it.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by BlueMule

 

I think those illustrations are pretty solid.

Well, they are pretty I'll give you that.

If we assume that Ezekiel saw ANYTHING similar to what those illustrations show, it should argue to the point that not ALL of these events are psychological manifestations.

The universe itself is a psychological manifestation!

We think there are things and stuff and that its solid and real, and we think there is a barrier between inner and outer, between subjective and objective. We think we are a plurality of discrete entities in a universe that is "out there". None of that is true.

"The plurality that we perceive is only an appearance; it is not real. Vedantic philosophy... has sought to clarify it by a number of analogies, one of the most attractive being the many-faceted crystal which, while showing hundreds of little pictures of what is in reality a single existent object, does not really multiply that object...

Multiplicity is only apparent, in truth, there is only one mind..." -Erwin Schrödinger

"All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind (consciousness), besides which nothing exists." -Huang Po

Originally posted by St Udio






here is where you seem to be introducing the idea of creating ~Elementals~

which can be very much like the ~Tulpas~ the OP introduced


i have long stated that UFOs are 'spirit things' generated in our brains/psyches into a physical manifestation

how timely this link is...

seems in Norfolk VA a object fell from the sky...

the two reports say the mass object was like styrofoam and another reports that the object was just a weather-baloon...(i guess with a plastic helium bag)


i suggest that this is a dead UFO entity... projected into life by a type of psyche conscienceness and unknown to natural/elolutionary science


when i was growing up back in the 50s & 60s.. there were incidents of a super-light foam that was found in big clumps on the ground, termed Angel-Foam it was just an anomaly that did not fit in the animal or plant kingdom paradigms


i continue to suggest that this weird stuff is fallen UFOs, perhaps life forms or spirit forms of matter created by thoughts of humans... or something in-between


link:


www.theregister.co.uk...

..."Mystery object falls from sky, area sealed off by military: 'Weather balloon', say officials...

there are links to the two TV reports from virginia TV stations at the end of the linked article...


it seems the official solution is to grab all the anomalas material, declare the stuff 'normal' then misinform the public by hiding the facts from public knowledge... styrofoam weather balloons INDEED

reply to post by St Udio


Yeah, it was called "Angel Hair" actually... foam is just as apt. I like your interpretation, first time I've heard that.

Patrick Harpur's "Daimonic Reality" brings up some neat points about all this and posits that the Daimonic realm is just as real as ours, but more malleable and sometimes stuff bleeds over as it is tied, directly, to our consciousness -both overt and sub.

It is a catch-all idea that explains all sorts of Fortean phenomena and treats it as more of an concrete actuality than Jung's collective unconscious. He feels it's been neglected of late and might be more demanding of attention the further away we move from it, say from a purely scientific mindset, for example.

Apparently, Harpur feels it wants existence and as daimons need us to "believe" in them to exist, then they'll manifest to promote their own existence... if I get his idea right, that is. So Tinkerbell might put on her boots and demand some clapping.

Perhaps we need them, too, in a symbiosis. Perhaps...

reply to post by Baddogma
I'm not Catholic, so don't get me wrong here. However, if anyone has, actually, encountered "other-worldly beings"…then a chief Vatican exorcist is probably one of them.

IF these "others" exist--and these days I tend to think they do--then we might be wise to listen to our mystics as to "their" existence.

I, myself, have much less willingness to trust their advanced spirituality than Corrado Balducci seemed to. (Certainly, at the very least, Balducci was an experienced and educated man.)

But I do find the following interview snippet--along with the fairly recent announcements by the Vatican--to be worthy of consideration as regards this topic.

Originally posted by Baddogma

Perhaps we need them, too, in a symbiosis. Perhaps...

Yeah I've read Patrick Harpur's book, it's well worth reading.

It could very well be a symbiotic relationship. When I successfully completed my peyote ingestion ceremony at my peyote church in AZ, it felt like I and the peyote spirits entered a symbiotic relationship. It's a very profound thing. I don't know if you've ever watched ST: DS9 but it was kind of like the trill character, Dax.

reply to post by The GUT


Could very well be, and lots of run-ins with these "beings" are not ...um, cool. But maybe it IS subjective? Maybe they manifest as a reflection of expectations? Hard to say because we don't really know what's happening in our own heads.

There are angels and demons that pop up every now and again and also just plain weird things that defy categorization.... It may very well be that people shouldn't fool with them if they're not consciously experienced, so that means that most might be wise to avoid them (beyond putting milk out at night so their cows aren't barren).

The odd, evil seeming thing I once (or thrice) ran into was scary as hell, but in it's "defense" I was in a poor mind state at the time, so I don't know which of us to blame, really. Chicken or egg?

I just think it's way, way more complex than white hat black hat. Maybe on some levels the exorcists are spot on, in that positing incorporeal life, there must be all sorts of it... and some nasty beasties for sure... but there must be more to it is all I'm saying -like the gentleman says in that clip you provided.

And Blue... where in AZ you at? That church sounds like one I'd actually like to attend someday... again, despite the taste of cactus. Tucson, here.

Heh, but as far as symbiotic relationships, my head is crowded enough with odd people, some I've never been properly introduced to, and letting ol' green face in on a permanent basis might lead to him taking over my bed and relegating me to the couch or a different house entirely, if you get my metaphor.

I'd guess caution isn't a bad idea in these territories that we are just discovering and most don't even think exist.

reply to post by Xtraeme


In a nutshell: geophysically induced hallucination. A 100% materialist explanation.

Originally posted by Baddogma

And Blue... where in AZ you at? That church sounds like one I'd actually like to attend someday... again, despite the taste of cactus. Tucson, here.

I used to live in Tucson. Say hi to it for me.

It's near Phoenix.

www.peyoteway.org...