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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by schadenfreude
The state of the world is not the church's fault, it's man's fault.
Greed has not prevailed over the church, for no matter how much greed has taken over the world, it doesn't change what Jesus Christ did, nor it's ability to save souls (even though you may be seeing more greed than souls being saved, it doesn't change the fact that souls are being saved every day in spite of it.)
Considering that the Bible told us that the world would come to it's end this way, there's nothing you can do to stop it. You can only keep doing that which you've been called to do and if you want to call out the unrighteous, fine, but you can't blame the church. We're all responsible for our own salvation, regardless of false prophets and fallen churches. Not all Christian churches and pastors are poor role models.
This is perhaps the attitude I detest the most. "The Bible told us" - ?????? That is such a LAME scapegoat. There IS something we can do to "stop it." But many people don't WANT TO - for idiotic reasons like believing they will escape in "the rapture".
Originally posted by schadenfreude
Originally posted by theRhenn
reply to post by schadenfreude
A "christian" countering his own religion? I dont think so. You've watered down the term quite a bit in your post.
A christian is more than someone who believes in Christ. It is someone taking up the cross and being CHRIST LIKE. That's hardly the case here.
You're taking scripture and arguing against it. How can you be a christian if you're calling the bible, the origin of your "faith" a lie?
That's like me saying "I'm not a racist, but all black people are criminals".
And I never said the bible is a lie, only our attitude towards what the bible SAYS.
Originally posted by Krazysh0t
Originally posted by schadenfreude
reply to post by Krazysh0t
When Christians were acting Christ-like, they brought Rome to it's knees. When they went WILLINGLY to the lions, ppl jumped out of their seats when they saw it AND JOINED THE CHRISTIANS. iirc, it was 7 romans, for every one christian martyred.
Christianity today no longer has that influence, least in America. But to deny that influence ever happened, well that's just disingenuous, don't you think?edit on 8-8-2013 by schadenfreude because: (no reason given)
I'm gong to deny it because I don't see a source on any of it. Considering that executions in ancient Rome were considered a public spectacle I find your claims rather dubious. In fact of all the times I've heard mention of Christian persecution, this is the first time I've heard mention of Romans sacrificing themselves along with the Christians as a means of protest. This source even goes on to mention how boring it was for the crowd to watch.
Roman executions typically were considered a form of public spectacle. When coinciding with a game day, they usually took place during the midday break between the morning animal hunts and the afternoon gladiator matches. A favored method was exposing an unarmed criminal to lions or bears. Since it’s pretty clear that Christians were at times sentenced to death by beast (see 1 and 2 above), one may surmise that some of them met their end via lion in front of a Colosseum crowd, but we have no sure knowledge of this. The entertainment value of executions was apparently low due to their sheer number — many people found them boring, either leaving for lunch or sticking around and writing letters to friends about the tedium.
www.straightdope.com...
Originally posted by StoutBroux
Originally posted by schadenfreude
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I guess there's lots of people going to hell. But I have questions about this verse:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
There's too many contradictions in the bible. We are told in Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man.....
Absolutely there are too many contradictions because there are many that follow it to the letter..which the scriptures themselves says kills...and there is the "dichotomy not contradiction.The scriptures are not a rule book or a guideline.It is a testimony of one thing only.... God is salvation.Yahoshua those that many call "Jesus".
The Truth is right in front of them and they can't see it.The scriptures are not the "living word" of God... Yahoshua is.The words(the letters of the law) are not alive they are dead .
Originally posted by schadenfreude
Originally posted by Krazysh0t
Originally posted by schadenfreude
reply to post by Krazysh0t
When Christians were acting Christ-like, they brought Rome to it's knees. When they went WILLINGLY to the lions, ppl jumped out of their seats when they saw it AND JOINED THE CHRISTIANS. iirc, it was 7 romans, for every one christian martyred.
Christianity today no longer has that influence, least in America. But to deny that influence ever happened, well that's just disingenuous, don't you think?edit on 8-8-2013 by schadenfreude because: (no reason given)
I'm gong to deny it because I don't see a source on any of it. Considering that executions in ancient Rome were considered a public spectacle I find your claims rather dubious. In fact of all the times I've heard mention of Christian persecution, this is the first time I've heard mention of Romans sacrificing themselves along with the Christians as a means of protest. This source even goes on to mention how boring it was for the crowd to watch.
Roman executions typically were considered a form of public spectacle. When coinciding with a game day, they usually took place during the midday break between the morning animal hunts and the afternoon gladiator matches. A favored method was exposing an unarmed criminal to lions or bears. Since it’s pretty clear that Christians were at times sentenced to death by beast (see 1 and 2 above), one may surmise that some of them met their end via lion in front of a Colosseum crowd, but we have no sure knowledge of this. The entertainment value of executions was apparently low due to their sheer number — many people found them boring, either leaving for lunch or sticking around and writing letters to friends about the tedium.
www.straightdope.com...
Sadly, it would appear that you are correct. Either I read what I wrote wrong, or (more likely) I believed what what someone told me to be true, and it turns out they were completely full of it. I spent all day yesterday looking up a source for you, and couldn't find one supporting what I said. Having said that, I retract that statement, and do apologize to you for saying something (I thought) was true.
My apologies.