John Mack's Abduction

reply to post by FireMoon

That's a pretty bold statement to make given the unbelievably wide experiences people have. Then there's are we talking "distortion" or are we talking, full on another world? I've had both and believe me they are completely different experiences and not really related to each other at all save for lazy analysis

Each experience is unique but there are some commonalities. I'm not following you. Are you saying that if you see other worlds and aliens that they are not hallucinations? That is a common theme as are religious experiences. Are they different subjectively? Of course.

The point I'm making is that, reality is wholly subjective and as yet, science cannot show it as anything else. Most religious experiences are not as "full on" as some of my experiences and I'd say I was far more aware, if that's the right term, of what was occurring. I was reacting to a wholly different reality and a different time scale. I was trying to grasp how long the experience was lasting during it and was totally unable to find anything I could relate to, as a base to figure it out by. In this reality it might well have been mere seconds to a few minutes, in the other reality it seemed like a good hour or so.

There's the kicker, lets say it was 5 minutes just for the sake of argument. Then my brain in the space of five minutes was working so quickly and assimilating information so fast then it was,in terms of experience, the equivalent of reading a whole novel in that 5 minutes. What really tickled me at the time and still does. I was aware I was sending a "projection of myself through this reality and that there was another core me that was in control of this. I was was watching myself travel effortlessly through another reality by means of flight and having an internal discussion with myself about how that might work in practical terms. I was also aware that, my projected self flying through another reality was cocooned in some kind of energy plasma that, from a distance to another observer would have appeared as "classic saucer" shape in a bright greenish yellow colour.

There really wasn't anything religious about it at all. There was a spiritual element in that, I was what a shaman would call, "gifted a vision" at the end of the experience however, even that is, to this day, still a conundrum to me. Neither did I, at any time during or for that matter since, deem myself "special" in anyway whatsoever. My abiding impression was and still is that, that sort of experience is open to every last sentient creature.

One other thing that struck me was this. That there were "other intelligences in that reality that were not human. Nothing intrusive into my experience on a personal level rather, just a sense of almost amusement as if they were aware of my presence and almost chuckling thinking.. "Aye up kidda,, one of the monkeys has found their way through"... The oldest adage in the field of esoterica is the phrase.... As above so below".. that was what a brought back from that experience a sense of, ahhhh yes, indeed it is....

So how does this fit with UFOs? Well I do have friend who claims during his experience the "alien" told him that, his "Ship" which he photographed was nothing more than a thought projection. When you read about the Aviary and their experiments and what happened at say Rendlesham there's a tantalising possibility there. Could many UFOs actually be manifestations of those experiences by humans, from now, from our past, from our future as well as projections from other intelligences? Sadly, you can see why any bunch of control freaks would wish to try and contain the experience and then weaponise it.

reply to post by FireMoon


I understand where you are coming from... I think. I will have to read that again. But really, I agree with what you are saying. Reality and the human perception of it is a tricky thing and not at all as cut and dry as most think it Is. We can talk about hallucinations. But what is a hallucination? By definition it's something we perceive that isn't there in the external world. If we keep going with this definition we could say that everything we perceive is a kind of hallucination. That is what we perceive normally is a distortion of reality already. There is no science that can fully explain this.

To further complicate things, we have memory. Memories are further distortions of our perceptions.

But what we are talking about here is a whole reality projected as if it exists out there with no real way to explain the content. Interacting with other intelligences in landscapes that we have no personal reference for. When we explore this subject, inevitably you come to this impasse. Skeptic or believer you have to entertain both possibilities. Either it's a hallucination generated from within people's heads or it's an alternate reality that is being perceived. Either of those seem rather unpalatable I imagine.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
Either it's a hallucination generated from within people's heads or it's an alternate reality that is being perceived.

Under the philosophy of Idealism, all of reality (alternate, or not) is generated by "mind", so perhaps a third possibility, which I am sure some will find even more unpalatable than the first two

Originally posted by Bluesma
Please forgive me, I did not read all the previous responses.

When I and my family were having these experiences and I went looking for information and research on it, Dr. Mack was the only one I found who seemed to have a good comprehension of what the experience is like for the experiencer, and the longer term effects upon the mind. We ended up getting into contact with his Institute to get help for our son who was two at the time and traumatized, and we didn't know how to deal with it.

There was a huge spiritual type of "awakening" that happened during/after, but I cannot claim to be sure that that was the goal or motivation of these beings, or the interactions. -Which is what Mack sometimes tends to lean towards.

What seems very clear to me is that having an experience which puts into question my most base beliefs about reality is what touched off a sudden spiritual crisis. I did not believe in ETs, was not into UFO stories, and yet was having very clear experiences in full daylight and conscious awareness that simply could not exist.

So this made everything crumble in my mind. Suddenly I realized I know nothing, I can trust nothing, I cannot find any grip on "knowledge" of reality or even my own existence, much less anyone elses.

My point being, a spiritual crisis can be set off in natives coming into contact with other people from totally unknown civilisations, that doesn't mean the newcomers MEANT to have that effect on them.

It could be an unintentional, beneficial, side effect.

I also experienced a "remembering" of having agreed to this much earlier- like before my physical birth in this manifestation. A lot of "memories" about the nature of the universe and consciousness seemed to "awaken" in me.... but now, in retrospect, I find myself putting those into question.

I have studied the effect of integrating, or identifying with, things or beings, and how it empowers one subjectively. How, in any situation, if you choose to percieve that you "chose" this, then that gives one much more power to change it- both psychologically and physically.

My perceptions could have been a coping mechanism. They were certainly effective in that usage, as my perception that I had the power to choose this or choose otherwise was the root of how I put an end to the experiences. It is that which gave me the self confidence and will to decide it will stop.

I am somewhat glad now that I did not get hypnotized or anything, or had any therapist who would have encouraged the terrorized victim characterization (I went to a psychiatrist and a psychoanalyst, neither had any interest, or knowledge of the UFO or abduction phenomena). Because if they had encouraged such a view, it would have been more detrimental to me, I suspect.

In the end, I still don't have any beliefs about the ultimate nature of the experience. There are various possibilities, and at this point I just don't care.

Thanks for sharing Bluesma.

John Mack made some interesting points in his Passport to the Cosmos, basically implying that just interacting, or even being in the presence of an advanced consciousness, could have an "enlightening" effect.

He mentioned how Whitley Strieber asked some "guru" about this and he said "15 seconds with them, or 15 years of meditation .... you got lucky".

Kind of like with the Dalai Lama. You always here about how people love to be in his presence, that it has some effect on them and they can literally feel the "goodness", etc, etc.

So, it may be that it is not an intended effect, but just an outcome of any interaction with them.

As I mentioned in my blog post, this could be why they haven't "landed on the White House lawn", as the popular phrasing goes. There is no reason that effect HAS to be positive on a mass scale, Perhaps opening people's psyche (via interaction with an advanced consciousness) to things they're not ready for would be dangerous.

As I mentioned in my blog post, this could be why they haven't "landed on the White House lawn", as the popular phrasing goes. There is no reason that effect HAS to be positive on a mass scale, Perhaps opening people's psyche (via interaction with an advanced consciousness) to things they're not ready for would be dangerous.



Than makes sense. Things are done or not done for logical reasons. It seems that the ETs and our governments do agree on some level.

Originally posted by ZetaRediculian
reply to post by FireMoon

 

But what we are talking about here is a whole reality projected as if it exists out there with no real way to explain the content. Interacting with other intelligences in landscapes that we have no personal reference for. When we explore this subject, inevitably you come to this impasse. Skeptic or believer you have to entertain both possibilities. Either it's a hallucination generated from within people's heads or it's an alternate reality that is being perceived. Either of those seem rather unpalatable I imagine.

edit on 5-8-2013 by ZetaRediculian because: (no reason given)

Hmmm! You may be on to something there - - although it's another possibility - - that it is indeed a projection, but that does not mean it's a hallucination. The great psychic Edgar Cayce often stated that
"Thoughts are things." The projections may indeed have some physical reality, and we, the gods,
create them. That's why in scientific research we have double blind experiments, because the thinking
of the researcher can influence the results.

...anyway, right in the middle of this discussion, I had this very weird migraine and reading this was causing me to go into some very bizarre spaces...almost hallucinatory. I had to actually put the computer down and walk away. It made me apprehensive enough to not even look at this thread until now.

But I did have some very good insights about false memories as I seemed to have had a flood of them. It was very late maybe 2 or 3 in the morning and despite my migraine, I kept working on a programming project and wham! It occurred to me that I have had several recurring false memories while I was dreaming but I couldn't be certain that they were recurring because they were false to begin with. That is the feeling that they were recurring was false also. It was like this dream world that I kept separate somehow merged with my waking reality. I really had to focus to know what was real for a few minutes.

This was the time I should have been asleep and my brain decided it was going to dream anyway.

Since many of the abduction events do occur at night, I do wonder how much of those abduction memories retrieved from hypnosis are memories of dreams. It would be like retrieving this dream world full of bizarre imagery and false memories and kind of merging that with waking reality. That cant be good.

Originally posted by EthanT
an NDE would just be a complete shutting off of the filter (i.e. brain) allowing total "unconstrained cognition"

Good point. See this link - www.rifters.com...