Toronto Police Kill 18 Year Old Alone On Streetcar. Caught on Video. I Am Speechless.

Originally posted by Stealthwatch
I just have to say this. It will cost me my log in but thats fine i will just make a new one.
Cops will keep pushing the limits till the consequences of their actions are too great. The force is full of mentally ill, murderous sons of bi@@@$ who is there for no other reason than exactly this. Bunch of jerks who find a legal way to kill and maim. So why not try the following. Those cops must be local thus people must know where they live. A bit of street justice goes a long way. You will not be able to take revenge on them but they must have a wive and kids or at least a pet. A eye for an eye. Go shoot his wife or kid or dog. Make sure to leave a note to say exactly why it happen. There is enough people out there that will be happy to do the dirty work on your behalf for a couple 100 $ am sure of it. Do that enough and those sob's will think twice before doing it again.

I can't say I quite agree with this view-- but I am certain that if things keep going like this (which in my view seems to be an escalation-- more and more of these incidents over time) eventually it is going to come to this.

reply to post by Caroline13456

I'm pleased to see that the Toronto Star is giving this good coverage. There's a vigil going on this evening, and an investigation is under way.

The police are now and forevermore on VIDEO!

And the average citizen has every right to record them so long as they are not actively obstructing justice.

More and more such things are having incredible blowback, and that's good to see.

Get them on video, from every angle and perspective.

He called them pussies, so they killed him, simply because he wouldn't drop his three inch knife and didn't let it go even when he was dying.

He could have been drunk, mentally ill, or a suicide by cop who knows, just a kid though with a three inch knife. I could have taken him down with my bare hands.

Turns out he was right, that they were pussies and cowards, sad irony though..

Best regards,

NAM

Cant say that i am not surprised Police in Toronto dont really care about you or your issues the majority of them, no offense are nothing but crocks.


CP24 still has no local coverage on it. CP24 to speak has its own former cop on the show giving viewers friendly lawless advices which may or may not apply here in Toronto.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by defcon5

 

Hmmm.... and here I was thinking their job was to de-escalate situations, not switch them straight up to a "Code Red Emergency/ cop's life in some level of danger - shoot to kill" level, at the ignoring of a verbal warning.

edit on 29-7-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)

great point that is really it in a nutshell..no reasoning or attempting to diffuse the situation
defcon5 kept bringing up this 21' crap which im sure is a guidline but is it a mandatory guidline?..did he have to shoot because of the 21' deal..of course not

That is obviously a bit of a trigger happy overreaction by the cop, a bad judgement call all around. The kid from what some said told everybody to get off the buss, that in itself says he may be looking for a suicide by cop situation or that he is not quite in his right mind. If he had totally lost it he would have not brought a knife to a gun fight and he would not be asking people to get off the bus, he would have been knifing them or shooting the place up, and then the police would arrive. Whatever his problems and any thing he may or may not have been on, the whole situation was handled poorly. Like SO said why shoot him a bunch of times then use the tazer. I know such situation are tense but I do believe that is the incorrect order of subduing a knife wielding individual.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by Hefficide

I counted nine shots, in two clusters. It is glaringly obvious that the first cluster ( three shots ) was more than enough to deal with a knife wielding man who did not even appear to be attacking or trying to attack. The next six shots, I can only assume, were to make sure that he never got back up. I cannot imagine him being a threat after already being shot three times and put down.

IE the last six shots were murder. Plain and simple.

Do I pull knives inside public places and scare the living crap out of everyone and force everyone out of public places under knife threat? No.

Quit forgiving criminals, blatant threats to society and people that dont contribute with anything but with fear and insecurity towards law abiding innocent citizens.

That being said... I seriously doubt much was lost besides 8 extra bullets since 1 well placed should have done its job.

18 year olds in Canada are just stupid kids...they are not criminals. This 18 yr old should have been tasered enough to let go of the knife and then immediately handcuffed and tossed into jail.

This is police brutality...and is plain disgusting for me to watch as a true Canadian citizen. *RIP* I feel sorry for his family...

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


Even still the cops had no right to murder him. Whatever or not the young man was whiling to kill himself where that can be debated, the extreme of force by the officers is out of the question.

As others have stated they should used an tazer.

reply to post by gosseyn


I agree to disagree.
Think of LEO's as Hunters.
License to kill.
Trained in the arts of death.
Looks like OPEN SEASON on all of us.
That is unless your a cop.
By the way i used to be one.

The enhanced videos unfortunately show very little detail about what was going on in the streetcar. I refuse to join the herd and condemn the officers before I have all the facts...
I asked a police officer who was attending the ER today with an accident victim what his thoughts were on the shooting and he said that he too had watched the video and suggested the possibility that when the man stepped back away from the door, it appeared that he bent down briefely and took a few steps back further into the bus. The video doesn't show what happened when he stepped forward just before he was shot, but the officer I spoke to said the one thing that would entice him to shoot was if the guy on the bus had pointed a gun, or something that appeared to be a gun. I thought this made perfect sense, and it's too bad no one in the media has presented this possibility to the public......
This is all unfortunate, and there is a family mourning their son, brother, etc...there is obviously much more to this story and once the SIU finishes it's investigation, hopefully we will know more. If they don't release the details, but find that the office did indeed act appropriately, and he is returned to full duty, I'll be ok with that....

Originally posted by defcon5

We've already been through this.
If the person is hopped up on drugs, 21 feet even with your weapon drawn may not be enough.
Its also designed to give the officer a chance to fire multiple shots in case one is not enough to knock them down.

Yeah... Try stopping someone on bathsalts coming at you in 21 feet, no matter how great of a shot you think you are.

edit on 7/29/2013 by defcon5 because: (no reason given)

I know quite a lot about "bath salts" and pharmacology in general. Far more than the "drugs make suspects superhuman" prohibitionist BS they teach dumb cops.

I will concede that a few drugs can make a resisting suspect more difficult to deal with. This comes in essentially two flavors:

1- Decreased pain response or awareness.

2- Increased levels of norepinephrine



The risk of having a suspect that can't feel pain is pretty obvious. A suspect with hyped up levels of norepinephrine and dopamine (the two do often go hand in hand with many drugs) is more dangerous for a couple reasons. It can make a suspect more aggressive, more incoherent / delusional, but especially can give a bit of a boost to strength and stamina. It is obviously this last factor that is among the most worrying for police encounters. (I believe there is another factor involved in the "druggie with superhuman strength" phenomenon, but that would take longer to explain and is not really relevant to our present discussion.)


One thing that drugs do not do to a suspect, is drugs do NOT turn a suspect into the Six Million Dollar Man.


No amount of "bath salts" in the world is going to enable a person to close a 21 foot gap in less time than you can squeeze a trigger. It's not only impossible, it's ludicrous to suggest, and you clearly either don't know what you're talking about, or you're insulting my intelligence, and everyone else', with highly implausible lies.


And I stand by my previous statement-- if you already have your weapon out and aimed, and you can't pull the trigger on someone advancing from 21 feet away, you have no business carrying a firearm.

reply to post by FraternitasSaturni


Yea, I can see how a 17yr old who was about 160lbs and stood 5foot nothing with a 3 inch blade was a serious threat to what about 9 LEO. In 1973 this man would have been subdued and taken away, more than likely un-harmed . In 1983 he would have been subdued and taken with a few extra bruise's to get their point across. In 1993 he would have gotten the taser & the nightstick, subdued taken away alive but hurting. This is 2013 and this is the new LEO across the board , Canada, USA, Britian etc etc. We are the bad guys now.....all of us, whether breaking down on a bus or just being pulled over for some crap reason. We need to understand if LE get's involved, your life is at risk. Hell that could even be when you call them for help. This was an outright un-lawfull shooting and the cops who pulled will probally be slapped on the wrist and let go.

One of two things happened in this video...

Either, the cop had zero weapons training, meaning he needed 9 shots to put down one kid... Or he used excessive force... its honestly one of the other, you pick.........

reply to post by jhn7537


No excuses he had training he used excessive force. You get training before you became an officer.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni

Originally posted by Hefficide

I counted nine shots, in two clusters. It is glaringly obvious that the first cluster ( three shots ) was more than enough to deal with a knife wielding man who did not even appear to be attacking or trying to attack. The next six shots, I can only assume, were to make sure that he never got back up. I cannot imagine him being a threat after already being shot three times and put down.

IE the last six shots were murder. Plain and simple.

Do I pull knives inside public places and scare the living crap out of everyone and force everyone out of public places under knife threat? No.

Quit forgiving criminals, blatant threats to society and people that dont contribute with anything but with fear and insecurity towards law abiding innocent citizens.

That being said... I seriously doubt much was lost besides 8 extra bullets since 1 well placed should have done its job.

You don't know if this guy was sick , like for instance if a person has blood poisoning they will be out of their mind. So your generalization shows the lack of willingness to even think the guy did not deserve to be shot.
Another thing is you taze the person first if that does not work then you use more force.

Better hope you don't find your self in such a predicament.

Sorry but I don't care for the holier than thou types, how's your walking on water going. You know wrong is wrong, some wrongs are bigger,worst wrongs, but wrong is wrong except for those perfect people that do no wrong, like you. Please teach us great one so we can kill all the evil things on Earth.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by jhn7537

 

No excuses he had training he used excessive force. You get training before you became an officer.

44

They were not aware that they were being videoed. Even though videoing is common these days...They wanted it to appear that the tasered the guy FIRST ...and with super human strength - the kid overcame the tasering and they had no option but to shoot...The tazer darts are left in the body...and if there was no video it would appear they did the right wing..They must have known that a taser was on the way - but someone got impatient.

reply to post by iwilliam


21 feet is the distance that you shoot from taking the CC permit test. No cop is gonna miss at 21 ft. Most LEO involved shootings take place at that distance or less..I could see two to three rounds being fired..not two bursts each over 4 rounds in length...overkill to say the lest.Murder at the best.

Hey, maybe the cop was that incompetent that he missed him with the first 8 shots...

Responding to recommendations from the Yu inquest and others, the Toronto Police Service has slowly been creating Mobile Crisis Intervention Teams, two-person teams that include a plainclothes officer and a psychiatric nurse. There are limitations to these teams: They’re available in some but not all police divisions. They work daytime hours (no later than 9 p.m. — too late to have been called to Saturday’s shooting). And police say they’re not equipped to respond to immediate threats of violence.

Sammy Yatim: Latest in a long line of Toronto police shooting deaths


Are you kidding me? Whats the use then?




Obviously there is a "problem" that isn't being solved in Toronto.

reply to post by openyourmind1262


21 feet should be good for a taser too. After all Leo's taser cartridges are 30ft but no that wasn't good enough. They wanted some blood!