Pope Francis on Gays "Who Am I To Judge?'

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

So, what, he just decided to ignore what the Bible teaches about the issue? We can love the sinner, and not approve of the sin. Apparently, he thinks we can't. That's disappointing, and I actually thought he'd be alright.

Where exactly did he 'decide to ignore what the bible teaches?' Answer - no where.
He stated EXACTLY what the bible teaches. We are not to judge souls. That's God's job.
He never said to approve of sins. NOT ONCE. NO WHERE.
Did you actually read what he said? If you had, you wouldn't be posting what you did.
It's "disappointing" (to use your word) that you posted this without actually reading what he said.

It's a shame more Christians don't take this approach to homosexuality and other issues.
It's certainly what Jesus taught, don't judge, leave the judging for after death and just treat everyone equally ans with respect.

I'm glad the Pope said what he did, good on him

Originally posted by Fraudfinder
It is valid but isn't the Pope to also remind us of what God's law is within the old testament. To correct the errors of our ways?

Sure. He could do that. He can also remind people not to hate others and not to judge their souls.
What he said was for the consumption of people out there 'hating' on those who have
same sex attraction. What he said was for the consumption of the people out there who
are arrogant enough to judge the souls of those who are homosexual.

AGAIN .. for you folks out there who can't seem to actually read the exchange between
the pope and the reporter ...

HERE IS THE FULL EXCHANGE OF WHAT THE POPE SAID

The crimes are something else: child abuse is a crime. ....

... I have yet to find on a Vatican identity card the word gay. They say there are some gay people here. I think that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby, because lobbies are not good. They are bad. If a person is gay and seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge that person? The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this point beautifully but says, wait a moment, how does it say, it says, these persons must never be marginalized and “they must be integrated into society.”

The problem is not that one has this tendency; no, we must be brothers, this is the first matter. There is another problem, another one: the problem is to form a lobby of those who have this tendency, a lobby of the greedy people, a lobby of politicians, a lobby of Masons, so many lobbies. This is the most serious problem for me. And thank you so much for doing this question.

HE IS VERY CLEAR THAT CHILD ABUSE IS A CRIME.
He is very clearly answering a specific question and stating it's not a crime to be gay.
He is very clearly stating that we are not to judge souls or 'marginalize' gay people.
All accurate. All within scripture and christian teaching.

Originally posted by Fraudfinder
So if the Pope speaks out and it is against God's spoken word what is this called? I forget? Can anyone tell me?('

')

Fortunately he hasn't done that so it's irrelevant. Can you show us how speaking about and telling people not to judge souls is somehow going against scripture? Nope. Didn't think you could.

Originally posted by Fraudfinder
God spoke out against homosexuality and he finds it detestable. He even took it a step further and stated they both should be killed. These are the words of the one true God JEHOVAH.

More likely they were the words of the ignorant superstitious peasants who wrote the Old Testament instead of the actual words of a creator God. A lot of what is in the bible is 'human' rather than 'divine'. Especially the old testament .. which some of the new testament feeds off of. IMHO

Originally posted by JohnnyJohn4578
Yesterday there was this news on TV about cardinals and priests dancing or something, I think it was in Brasil, not sure exactly anyway that doesn't matter. So my mother was next to me and I asked her this: "How many of those priests you think are pedophiles?"

So, because in the culture of Brazil the people sing and dance ... they are now pedophiles? :shk:

Brazil's Priests Use Song and Dance To Stem Catholic Church's Decline

The charismatic Catholic movement has been active in Brazil for years, but Rossi and others are pushing it into the mainstream. Today, the up-tempo Mass can be found in churches far more buttoned-down than Rossi's, where some solidly traditional priests have begun offering periodic charismatic services. In the process, they have learned to be more expressive with their hands and voices, to sing modern gospel songs instead of classic chants and recitations, and to avoid wincing when applause breaks out.

"The charismatic movement is now being institutionalized, just in the past two years or so," said Antonio Flavio Pierucci, a sociologist at the University of Sao Paulo. "The bishops now support it. They have found they can point to it as an alternative to those who want the church to be more politically liberal and leftist."

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by JohnnyJohn4578
Yesterday there was this news on TV about cardinals and priests dancing or something, I think it was in Brasil, not sure exactly anyway that doesn't matter. So my mother was next to me and I asked her this: "How many of those priests you think are pedophiles?"

So, because in the culture of Brazil the people sing and dance ... they are now pedophiles? :shk:

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said that.Not the people of Brazil, but the people who are part of the church ex. priests, cardinals etc.(from anywhere in the world). It doesn't matter if they are from Brazil, USA, Italy, France, basically anywhere in the world. And as an answer to some of your previous posts, I didn't make this reference to the Pope's speech as much as I did to the general situation with the church.


I believe in God but I don't believe the Church, nor I believe or say "accept" the whole concept of Christianity.
Because lets not forget that God is not a religion but a spiritual bond.

I love the passive aggressiveness by the Pope.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Fraudfinder
God spoke out against homosexuality and he finds it detestable. He even took it a step further and stated they both should be killed. These are the words of the one true God JEHOVAH.

More likely they were the words of the ignorant superstitious peasants who wrote the Old Testament instead of the actual words of a creator God. A lot of what is in the bible is 'human' rather than 'divine'. Especially the old testament .. which some of the new testament feeds off of. IMHO

Flyersfan, you took the words out of my mouth. The books of Leviticus are all around the expected conduct of the time and basically were a huge chunk of Jewish Law at the time of writing.

Atheists revel in their distortions - No one said God Himself was the writer - God inspired men to write truthfully in the Old as well as the New.........Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."

Jude 7 "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

Romans 1:26-27 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion"

Originally posted by Phoenix267
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

It's weird how a new leader can change the face of the Catholic church.

Maybe it isn't as 'weird' as it is contrived? Call me jaded, but when it comes to the Vatican, I take anything they do with a rather large grain of salt.

P.S. (I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic, and left the church a LONG time ago after comparing the Catechism with the Bible)

How has this thread been so derailed that its now a pedophile versus homosexuals thread?

A religious person who doesn't judge other people? You have to be joking, do those people even exist?

My aunt is really religious, she believes I'm a witch. Once she heard I didn't believe in the christian God she basically cut me off called me a devil worshipper and a bunch of stuff, I always thought the bible taught people not to judge other people that only god can do that. Hypocrites.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
How has this thread been so derailed that its now a pedophile versus homosexuals thread?

Because a lot of people don't understand the difference between the two.
And a lot of anti-Catholic folks don't want to bother learning the difference.
And still others didn't bother reading the entire statement by the pope.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
A religious person who doesn't judge other people? You have to be joking, do those people even exist?

The pope is trying to remind Christians that they aren't supposed to judge souls of others.
Gotta' give him kudos and a for trying to remind people of that.

Originally posted by FreedomEntered
How has this thread been so derailed that its now a pedophile versus homosexuals thread?

The people we share this planet with are bigoted, small minded, and ignorant.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
AGAIN .. for you folks out there who can't seem to actually read the exchange between
the pope and the reporter ...

HERE IS THE FULL EXCHANGE OF WHAT THE POPE SAID

The crimes are something else: child abuse is a crime. ....

... I have yet to find on a Vatican identity card the word gay. They say there are some gay people here. I think that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby, because lobbies are not good. They are bad. If a person is gay and seeks the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge that person? The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this point beautifully but says, wait a moment, how does it say, it says, these persons must never be marginalized and “they must be integrated into society.”

The problem is not that one has this tendency; no, we must be brothers, this is the first matter. There is another problem, another one: the problem is to form a lobby of those who have this tendency, a lobby of the greedy people, a lobby of politicians, a lobby of Masons, so many lobbies. This is the most serious problem for me. And thank you so much for doing this question.

Thank you very much for these translated quotes. The first reports that many of us heard were, in essence, "who am I to judge/condemn homosexuality?" and that is clearly not what was said. My respect for this Pope has returned.

reply to post by Evanzsayz


Actually not all Christians are this way. For example, I have Christian family who are quite understanding and tolerant of others differences.

Its just the extremist intolerant Christians make a bad name for the rest. And if they had their way you would be lynched as a witch.


There are modern Christians now a days, and lets not forget there are gays who are also Christian .

The Pope has signed the death warrant for humanity by going against Jehovas will.

Leviticus 20:
13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Leviticus is thought to have been written by Moses, who was Jehovas (Yaweh) right hand man. Jehova was not to be messed with, and the story of Sodom and Gomorrah will now be repeated, perhaps on a global scale. Behave all you sinners, and we may yet regain favour with the Boss, but I doubt it. The time of the Killshot approaches!