Religion & Vanity

RELIGION & VANITY

The Religion of Silence—whereby one never speaks of what he cannot know and keeps his convictions to himself—is obviously the most rational religion. If it was understood by all that the likelihood of discovering absolute truth is practically none, he wouldn't be so convicted. If practiced, it would eliminate all suspicion of others and end the irrational debates over nothing. There would be no dogma, proselytizing and bullying of any sorts. No politicization; no theocracy; no xenophobia. People would think how and what they want to think, out of joy and with a small sense of freedom.


You laugh, no doubt. Such an ideal is impossible. We can't do that, can we friends. We need to let others know how it is, since we are always right and they are always wrong—even if we fail to confront ourselves and ask in all honesty if someone can actually be right. Does it even matter?

For some reason, however, many have the need to display their convictions, even manifesting them in a physical way with such rituals as the lord’s prayer, salah, mudras, mantras and pilgrimages. Some even wear the proposed costumes of their faith for no other obvious practical reason. Others take long pilgrimages to kneel at a wall, or bow to whomever’s ass is directly in front of them, in an orgiastic display of sweet sweet piety. Religion is loud.

Why is this? Do they do it for health reasons? Praying and ritualizing can only be lucrative if prayers are answered. How often is that?

In all cases where the pious are praying, wearing religious garb, or performing some ritualistic display—whether anyone is listening or not—they do it because they think someone is watching. It could be themselves, it could be God, it could be priests, it could be the members of their culture—but every time they are only offering what amounts to a sort of theatrical display, like an actor or a man of stage and show might do—or a peacock. They are selling themselves. They are consciously trying to appear a certain way to appease whatever audience they are trying to reach. Why is this?

Why does he want us to see him this way? Why does he see himself this way?...maybe so he can stomach the sight of himself? His motive here is elusive, but it seems that this display is also the manifestation of of our good friend vanity, who likes to show his face in the strangest of places.


Is it no wonder that people often gather in churches and congregations to worship? What better place to appear pious but in front of the pious? Alas, the perfect audience! They wish to have the chance to appear spiritual in front of others, to appear spiritual to themselves—pure vain spirituality—as those who dogmatize over what they nor anyone else can never know, yet insist upon, do. They wish to appear a certain way, dressed up, seen kneeling beneath their idols agape, clothed in a costume for all to gaze upon.

Clever.

Isn’t that so?

Thank you for reading,

Though you might be right about some people, I also think there some elements you are ignoring here, when it comes to people sharing their faith or rituals with each other.

That is, the same reason the misanthrope searches to stay out of collective movement- the way it causes the body and mind to escape the individual ego! It is a way of escaping self and losing control, becoming part of a larger, undefined power.

The influence of "the herd" upon the body and mind, both biological, chemical, and psychological, leaves one with a variety of internal experiences, which are not controlled by the individual, sometimes cannot even be predicted. The state of powerlessness, as fearful as it is for the ego, can also be extremely pleasurable, as the emotional and physical energies are unleashed in the body, causing a feeling of elation.

I suggest that vanity also, lies behind the misanthropes search to avoid losing their individuality in a ocean of humanity. Vanity dictates that to stay separate, individualized, is to be superior.

People who are part of a religion have their identity expand, to being the larger group instead of the individual, and a sort of vanity exudes ("WE" are superior , instead of "I").


In very down to earth physical terms, I think the collective vanity is a bit more accurate, as the force of many will always beat and conquer one.
But spiritually, or mentally, the one can experience a sort of victory over collective consciousness each time they resist joining.

Your post proves a wonderful major point of vanity. Humans in general are social or exterior seeing individuals, taking a religion quite extensively, as long as it makes them look good socially or among their peers. Many individuals will use this as a substitute to feel good about themselves.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


It always makes me laugh when I read your opening posts.

We need to let others know how it is, since we are always right and they are always wrong—even if we fail to confront ourselves and ask in all honesty if someone can actually be right. Does it even matter?

It seems you have to let people know that they are wrong so it seems you know what is right.

For some reason, however, many have the need to display their convictions, even manifesting them in a physical way with such rituals as the lord’s prayer, salah, mudras, mantras and pilgrimages. Some even wear the proposed costumes of their faith for no other obvious practical reason. Others take long pilgrimages to kneel at a wall, or bow to whomever’s ass is directly in front of them, in an orgiastic display of sweet sweet piety. Religion is loud.

Ridicule is also loud. For some reason it seems you have to display your conviction. The usual ritualistic display performed because there may be someone watching - like an actor or a man on stage - are you not just selling yourself and your beliefs?
Is it no wonder that people often gather on Ats? What better place to appear clever but in front of the pious?

reply to post by Itisnowagain

It always makes me laugh when I read your opening posts.

Gratitude. I aim to entertain. If I can make you laugh then surely I have made you smile.

It seems you have to let people know that they are wrong so it seems you know what is right.

I did say "we", after all. "We" would include myself, after all.

Ridicule is also loud. For some reason it seems you have to display your conviction. The usual ritualistic display performed because there may be someone watching - like an actor or a man on stage - are you not just selling yourself and your beliefs?

Is it no wonder that people often gather on Ats? What better place to appear clever but in front of the pious?

I couldn't have wrote it better myself. Flattering. But how you display your wounded vanity in the process is more than flattering enough.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

But how you display your wounded vanity in the process is more than flattering enough.

So I have displayed 'wounded vanity' in your opinion?
How so?

I have questions...Do thousands of people gather at a music concert to be seen?
Or do they attend to savour the experience...personally? Perhaps both?
Is the basis for their attendance vanity? I would say no.

Do people attend church to be seen? Or do they attend because they get something more personal out of the experience? Maybe both reasons are true, but the motivation is unique to each individual.

Are we not bombarded with the belief that we are always being judged? Even the non-believer can acknowledge that a large percentage of the population believes that God is always watching us. And judging us.

Do we behave ourselves to obey the laws? To stay out of Hell? Or because we are indeed upstanding moral citizens? Again, I believe the answer is unique to the individual.

I have known religious people with true faith, whose belief in a higher power gives them strength to continue living...when their own personal world is crumbling around them. I have known atheists who have prayed, when all other alternatives are gone...a last resort perhaps, to ask for help....or salvation.

I am not religious, but do have beliefs of my own. I also live as though I am always being watched and judged, but indeed it may only be MYSELF doing the judging. I won't take something that isn't mine...even if I can get away with it...because it's wrong to do so. I feel a moral obligation to always help another if at all possible.
I don't attend church, but do pray. The only thing I ever (pray) ask for myself, is strength to get through whatever crisis I'm immersed in. I will however pray for others....asking that they do not suffer.

Is there a 'vanity' aspect to religion? Yes indeed...there are cliques and judgemental hypocrites within every group of people. But I believe there are also people whose religious/spiritual involvement is coming from a deeper place. I've seen it...and I respect that. (zealots who murder, etc. not included).

Once again, it is my own personal belief that all-encompassing statements about any group of people is wrong. We are unique individuals, with our own reasons and motivations.
jacygirl

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


And then we're at the catch-22 where someone recognizes performance in others or the possibility of it, and therefore becomes cynical about all actions.

Someone isn't wrong or mistaken, they're pushing an agenda or in your face. Someone isn't religious, they're after money. Even something as basic as gender and biology has an element of performance to it or the possibility of vanity or false nature. At the end of the day, unless you want to practice strict buddhism you have to dare to be wrong, dare to try and reach for the stars and go for it. Part of that is working with people and communicating and some of that is to do with appearance. Even if you delibrately tried not to dress like a Christian or Muslim but associated with like minds who were studying the same subject ... oddly enough, you would create a 'look' for your group and someone would emulate you to join the group and bang ... game over.

Its the issue with the philosophy of performance is that it requires access to everyone else's brain to confirm or deny its findings, so I suspect its best to not fall into the trap of second guessing everyone and just get on with it.

We're social animals and I accept this.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


When one reaches a certain level of religious development, one taps into the collective unconscious. There one must deal with the negative energies, the primordial energies, the pain and the evil... the semi-autonomous patterns of thought and instincts (archetypes) of incredible psychic power which take on symbolic, culture-bound, poetic (mythological) forms.

That's when it helps to have a community at your back... a community connected by shared ritual.

To an outsider it might look like mere vanity but there is more going on under the hood than the eye of an outsider can see.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Such things could be similar to a placebo effect. Let just say if I don't have a giant cross in my hand, or beads, the lord thy God won't hear you as well. So you throw on those things, and somehow they will get a +5 bonus to faith stat. Also such religious events/ceremonies allow such stronger communities to be built up. That's one thing I've noticed with Islam, you mess one them, you mess with all of them.

However, such things are definitely vain considering that most of the prayer junk has to be bought from some commercialized retail store. At least most people won't have a messiah complex, which I think its vanity incarnate.

Also you ever seen the ending of "Devil Advocate". "Vanity my Favorite Sin".

reply to post by jacygirl

I have questions...Do thousands of people gather at a music concert to be seen?
Or do they attend to savour the experience...personally? Perhaps both?
Is the basis for their attendance vanity? I would say no.

I'm not sure how concerts are like praying. I would say your analogy might not work in this instance. There is something primal about music and dance. There is nothing primal about getting on one's knees and praying.

Do people attend church to be seen? Or do they attend because they get something more personal out of the experience? Maybe both reasons are true, but the motivation is unique to each individual.

I would also agree both are true. They want to be seen, and out of the experience they achieve pride in themselves, self-devotion, self-regard, and the off-chance that by performing such a ritual they have appeased whoever they pray to.

Are we not bombarded with the belief that we are always being judged? Even the non-believer can acknowledge that a large percentage of the population believes that God is always watching us. And judging us.

Do we behave ourselves to obey the laws? To stay out of Hell? Or because we are indeed upstanding moral citizens? Again, I believe the answer is unique to the individual.

I have known religious people with true faith, whose belief in a higher power gives them strength to continue living...when their own personal world is crumbling around them. I have known atheists who have prayed, when all other alternatives are gone...a last resort perhaps, to ask for help....or salvation.

I am not religious, but do have beliefs of my own. I also live as though I am always being watched and judged, but indeed it may only be MYSELF doing the judging. I won't take something that isn't mine...even if I can get away with it...because it's wrong to do so. I feel a moral obligation to always help another if at all possible.
I don't attend church, but do pray. The only thing I ever (pray) ask for myself, is strength to get through whatever crisis I'm immersed in. I will however pray for others....asking that they do not suffer.

Is there a 'vanity' aspect to religion? Yes indeed...there are cliques and judgemental hypocrites within every group of people. But I believe there are also people whose religious/spiritual involvement is coming from a deeper place. I've seen it...and I respect that. (zealots who murder, etc. not included).

Once again, it is my own personal belief that all-encompassing statements about any group of people is wrong. We are unique individuals, with our own reasons and motivations.
jacygirl

These are fine words. Very admirable. I only have one question in regards to this statement:

"The only thing I ever (pray) ask for myself, is strength to get through whatever crisis I'm immersed in. I will however pray for others....asking that they do not suffer."

Who are you so politely asking for strength and ease of suffering? Do you think this individual cares about ritual or what one is wearing while praying?

reply to post by BlueMule

When one reaches a certain level of religious development, one taps into the collective unconscious. There one must deal with the negative energies, the primordial energies, the pain and the evil... the semi-autonomous patterns of thought and instincts (archetypes) of incredible psychic power which take on symbolic, culture-bound, poetic (mythological) forms.

This is simply untrue.

reply to post by Pinke

And then we're at the catch-22 where someone recognizes performance in others or the possibility of it, and therefore becomes cynical about all actions.

Someone isn't wrong or mistaken, they're pushing an agenda or in your face. Someone isn't religious, they're after money. Even something as basic as gender and biology has an element of performance to it or the possibility of vanity or false nature. At the end of the day, unless you want to practice strict buddhism you have to dare to be wrong, dare to try and reach for the stars and go for it. Part of that is working with people and communicating and some of that is to do with appearance. Even if you delibrately tried not to dress like a Christian or Muslim but associated with like minds who were studying the same subject ... oddly enough, you would create a 'look' for your group and someone would emulate you to join the group and bang ... game over.

Its the issue with the philosophy of performance is that it requires access to everyone else's brain to confirm or deny its findings, so I suspect its best to not fall into the trap of second guessing everyone and just get on with it.

We're social animals and I accept this.

There's honesty here. Vanity is natural. I fully agree. Showmanship, selling oneself, and pride are what we do. Humility is usurped with every vanity.

reply to post by Bluesma

Though you might be right about some people, I also think there some elements you are ignoring here, when it comes to people sharing their faith or rituals with each other.

That is, the same reason the misanthrope searches to stay out of collective movement- the way it causes the body and mind to escape the individual ego! It is a way of escaping self and losing control, becoming part of a larger, undefined power.

The influence of "the herd" upon the body and mind, both biological, chemical, and psychological, leaves one with a variety of internal experiences, which are not controlled by the individual, sometimes cannot even be predicted. The state of powerlessness, as fearful as it is for the ego, can also be extremely pleasurable, as the emotional and physical energies are unleashed in the body, causing a feeling of elation.

I suggest that vanity also, lies behind the misanthropes search to avoid losing their individuality in a ocean of humanity. Vanity dictates that to stay separate, individualized, is to be superior.

People who are part of a religion have their identity expand, to being the larger group instead of the individual, and a sort of vanity exudes ("WE" are superior , instead of "I").


In very down to earth physical terms, I think the collective vanity is a bit more accurate, as the force of many will always beat and conquer one.
But spiritually, or mentally, the one can experience a sort of victory over collective consciousness each time they resist joining.

Good thoughts Bluesma.

And yes, he who, by choice, stays out of the collective is doing so to feel better about himself. He is appeasing himself, like the one who prays is appeasing another. In order to be able to live with ourselves, away from shame, there must be pride in oneself. I think religion offers this pride in some form, just as escaping from it might also do.

In very down to earth physical terms, I think the collective vanity is a bit more accurate, as the force of many will always beat and conquer one.
But spiritually, or mentally, the one can experience a sort of victory over collective consciousness each time they resist joining.

This is interesting. We know that there are animals who live sometimes solo, sometimes in packs and sometimes as a herd. Maybe we, as a species, are still in the process of making a choice in that matter.

I think you're correct when you say one can experience a victory over the collective consciousness. I'd be weary of using the term "collective consciousness" myself, but it is apparent that when one begins to question the culture of the day, one begins to produce his own.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by BlueMule

 

When one reaches a certain level of religious development, one taps into the collective unconscious. There one must deal with the negative energies, the primordial energies, the pain and the evil... the semi-autonomous patterns of thought and instincts (archetypes) of incredible psychic power which take on symbolic, culture-bound, poetic (mythological) forms.

This is simply untrue.

That is simply a pathetic response. A waste of space. If that's all you can muster up the energy to say just don't say anything.

reply to post by BlueMule


I agree. But it is all your post warrants as a response. You're simply making stuff up.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by BlueMule

 

I agree. But it is all your post warrants as a response. You're simply making stuff up.

edit on 20-7-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)

lol

Making stuff up? Oh I do so love it when you lay your cards down revealing an ignorant losing hand. Thanks. I love the feeling of knowing stuff that ignorant skeptics think is made-up. It makes me feel like a big man. It's a good feeling.

reply to post by BlueMule

lol

Making stuff up? Oh I do so love it when you lay your cards down revealing an ignorant losing hand. Thanks. I love the feeling of knowing stuff that ignorant skeptics don't. It makes me feel like a big man.

Most liars and charlatans believe they are big men. Quite fitting if you ask me.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by BlueMule

 

lol

Making stuff up? Oh I do so love it when you lay your cards down revealing an ignorant losing hand. Thanks. I love the feeling of knowing stuff that ignorant skeptics don't. It makes me feel like a big man.

Most liars and charlatans believe they are big men. Quite fitting if you ask me.

So do people who know things that smug know-it-all skeptics don't.

reply to post by BlueMule

So do people who know things that smug know-it-all skeptics don't.

Well, if one was to be more honest, claim they know things is all they can ever do. It's quite easy to make claims one cannot back up. I guess the path of least resistance appeals to the spiritually weak.