My gay theory!!!

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by artemisminion

 

Good or bad, I just don't think gays are a very effective means of population control, since lgtb people are increasingly having children by some means.

Perhaps the theory could work if one could show an increase of people who are exclusively gay throughout life, and even here they could choose to have kids through surrogacy, insemination or communal arrangements (which many are).

Population control in some demographics (compared to rapid growth in others) seems to be more about cultural values, ideology, religion, gender roles, expectations of wealth and so forth.

In the US that seems true for both heterosexual and same-sex households so far, with the greatest increases amongst Hispanics.

The massive movement to urban gay "ghettos" of the 1970s (built around wider sexual revolution and liberation) doesn't seem to feature as significant to gay parenting.
It seems that more rural areas with a higher focus on families have the highest numbers of same-sex households with kids.
www.huffingtonpost.com...

I think in future the focus on gay households (rather than who is individually lgtb), and especially gay marriage will give clearer statistics on procreation trends and whether gay identities indeed form an efficient means of population control, or the opposite.

Until now it seems that other issues override both the gay and straight issue as to which population is increasing most.

Changes in racial demographics in a country can also come with vast social and religious changes, although I won't argue here whether that's good or bad in various countries.
That's a big question for some European countries, whose heterosexuals aren't increasing sufficiently to sustain an aging population, and the immigrants are having more children.

Suffice to say that simply being lgbt doesn't make one infertile, and statistically one could also generalize and say that being white currently seems an efficient (chosen) means of population control.

edit on 20-7-2013 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

The effect on population control would only have been necessary to have worked while we were still roving tribal bands. Like i said our technology beat out it's ability to have any affect on population by the time we picked up farming.

Originally posted by Haxsaw
all these comments people are acting as if gay people have no control over their actions, pfft, then many who hold this opinion go onto say that it is not a defect....welllllll, sorry to say but if you cant control yourself, then yeah you have got a real problem, do straight people say they have no control over who/what/or what gender they have sex with? if they do then they need some help. Can you imagine a paedophile saying sorry Im just born that way I have no control over who I have sex with? would they get any compassion? plssss, they are not born that way, they willing choose to have sex with children, so lets drop the "oh I was born gay" rubbish, no you weren't, you were born human and chose to give up your right to reproduce and have sex with people of the same gender, deal with it and stop telling others you cant control your sexual preferences, otherwise you are admitting you have a defect, take your pick, this isn't involuntary or a survival mechanism, like breathing or eating, you don't need to be gay to survive. You choose to be gay, and the problem is not in the way you were born but in your actions.

I'm not a Christian but yes I believe God doesn't want you to be gay, so those trying to say they were born that way need to firstly step up and take some responsibility for your actions.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

a pedophile and a homo are not at all the same.... i'm not gay but that's a ridiculous comparison.

Originally posted by Maxatoria
Given homosexuality is prevalent in many species its not just a human problem...it may be something more like when there are too many of one sex certain species can change gender so it maybe that part of sexual attraction can deliberately change due to some long lost ancestor in the primeval times who could go male to female and back again so the change in desire for the opposite sex would have to change and while in a lot of us we're wired to the correct orientation for biological reproduction there are those who perhaps have had a specific gene(s) switch on which is reading that theres too many people of gender x so i need to become gender y but due to millions of years the rest of the process has been lost so only the attraction part is still left encoded

boooo yaaaa.... my point exactly!!!

Hadn't thought about it being while we were fish or amphibians or some such step along the way. That's awesome!

reply to post by Haxsaw


How do you know? are you Gay? i can tell you i never selected to be Gay,

but lets pretend that we did, that would mean you selected to be Straight, do you remember when you made that choice? and that would mean that you can also select to be gay, which means you could actively have sex with men/woman.. if you wanted to of course correct? can you envision that? because i can't envision having sex with a female

Originally posted by SaturnFX
If crowd size determined "gayness" spreading, then India and China would be the mecca for homosexuality.

And they aren't.

So, the hypothesis basically fails.

Homosexuality is simply a different wiring of the brain and its attraction.
Homo-flexable may be more about environment however.

And not everything in nature has to serve a purpose. albinos, blue verses brown eyes, different hair colors, etc. just nature deciding to do curve balls fairly consistently.

Good call. Do we know the rates of homo sexuality in those countries? I'm sure in the US and abroad it's not the admitted rate.

Originally posted by artemisminion

Originally posted by Haxsaw
all these comments people are acting as if gay people have no control over their actions, pfft, then many who hold this opinion go onto say that it is not a defect....welllllll, sorry to say but if you cant control yourself, then yeah you have got a real problem, do straight people say they have no control over who/what/or what gender they have sex with? if they do then they need some help. Can you imagine a paedophile saying sorry Im just born that way I have no control over who I have sex with? would they get any compassion? plssss, they are not born that way, they willing choose to have sex with children, so lets drop the "oh I was born gay" rubbish, no you weren't, you were born human and chose to give up your right to reproduce and have sex with people of the same gender, deal with it and stop telling others you cant control your sexual preferences, otherwise you are admitting you have a defect, take your pick, this isn't involuntary or a survival mechanism, like breathing or eating, you don't need to be gay to survive. You choose to be gay, and the problem is not in the way you were born but in your actions.

I'm not a Christian but yes I believe God doesn't want you to be gay, so those trying to say they were born that way need to firstly step up and take some responsibility for your actions.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

a pedophile and a homo are not at all the same.... i'm not gay but that's a ridiculous comparison.

no its not, I don't think in any analogy what is being compared are exactly the same, so whats more ridiculous is your reply, and the fact you missed the point.

Originally posted by Haxsaw

Originally posted by artemisminion

Originally posted by Haxsaw
all these comments people are acting as if gay people have no control over their actions, pfft, then many who hold this opinion go onto say that it is not a defect....welllllll, sorry to say but if you cant control yourself, then yeah you have got a real problem, do straight people say they have no control over who/what/or what gender they have sex with? if they do then they need some help. Can you imagine a paedophile saying sorry Im just born that way I have no control over who I have sex with? would they get any compassion? plssss, they are not born that way, they willing choose to have sex with children, so lets drop the "oh I was born gay" rubbish, no you weren't, you were born human and chose to give up your right to reproduce and have sex with people of the same gender, deal with it and stop telling others you cant control your sexual preferences, otherwise you are admitting you have a defect, take your pick, this isn't involuntary or a survival mechanism, like breathing or eating, you don't need to be gay to survive. You choose to be gay, and the problem is not in the way you were born but in your actions.

I'm not a Christian but yes I believe God doesn't want you to be gay, so those trying to say they were born that way need to firstly step up and take some responsibility for your actions.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

a pedophile and a homo are not at all the same.... i'm not gay but that's a ridiculous comparison.

no its not, I don't think in any analogy what is being compared are exactly the same, so whats more ridiculous is your reply, and the fact you missed the point.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

Your assuming it's bad or evil... I'm assuming it's a natural proceed of some form or another. Your comparison is like me saying your no different the hitler cause he disagreed with people. Be honest... It's ok to assume others are evil for what they do with consenting adults in there own home. Until it's your kid..

reply to post by artemisminion


just another reason trying to justify gay's, disgusting. Gay's have always been there, simple as that. The population is not rising, we are simply (finally) at a time were it becomes normal for people to come out, instead of having to hide who you are, that's it, nothing more!

Originally posted by artemisminion

Originally posted by Haxsaw

Originally posted by artemisminion

Originally posted by Haxsaw
all these comments people are acting as if gay people have no control over their actions, pfft, then many who hold this opinion go onto say that it is not a defect....welllllll, sorry to say but if you cant control yourself, then yeah you have got a real problem, do straight people say they have no control over who/what/or what gender they have sex with? if they do then they need some help. Can you imagine a paedophile saying sorry Im just born that way I have no control over who I have sex with? would they get any compassion? plssss, they are not born that way, they willing choose to have sex with children, so lets drop the "oh I was born gay" rubbish, no you weren't, you were born human and chose to give up your right to reproduce and have sex with people of the same gender, deal with it and stop telling others you cant control your sexual preferences, otherwise you are admitting you have a defect, take your pick, this isn't involuntary or a survival mechanism, like breathing or eating, you don't need to be gay to survive. You choose to be gay, and the problem is not in the way you were born but in your actions.

I'm not a Christian but yes I believe God doesn't want you to be gay, so those trying to say they were born that way need to firstly step up and take some responsibility for your actions.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

a pedophile and a homo are not at all the same.... i'm not gay but that's a ridiculous comparison.

no its not, I don't think in any analogy what is being compared are exactly the same, so whats more ridiculous is your reply, and the fact you missed the point.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

Your assuming it's bad or evil... I'm assuming it's a natural proceed of some form or another. Your comparison is like me saying your no different the hitler cause he disagreed with people. Be honest... It's ok to assume others are evil for what they do with consenting adults in there own home. Until it's your kid..

clearly as a believer in GOD I do believe homosexuals are evil and have a serious problem they need to address, I want nothing to do with them and thank GOD they want nothing to do with me, but you're the one being biased here as that was not my point, let me spell out my point seeing as though you still dodged it in order to justify some homo's opinion that they were born like that, my point was that both a paedophile and a homosexual(and a straight person as I pointed out) all must take responsibility for who they have sex with as it is an act of free will, we don't do it involuntarily nor are we forced to do it. Therefore, a homosexual, peadophile, and a straight person cant blame who/what they CHOOSE to have sex with as an innate action.

In regards to your further attempt to side ball my point with your Hitler comment, I never said a gay person and a paedophile are "no different", don't be so obnoxious its not helping your cause or lack thereof, if you had of said that Hitler and I have something in common in that we both disagree with people then yes technicaly this would be an accurate statement(which you would also fall under), but unfortunately your ego seems to have surpassed your regard for any rationality on this matter, so try your theories on someone with not enough clues to see your forked tongue, leave me out of it.

reply to post by Haxsaw


So they are evil? I think your views are evil and backward, you and your ilks views are dying off I thank God for this, one day people will not care about other peoples sexuality and what a great day that will be.
It isn't about sex you know it is about love.
And you wonder why Religion is in decline.
Like the Beatles said.

Originally posted by Haxsaw

Originally posted by artemisminion

Originally posted by Haxsaw

Originally posted by artemisminion

Originally posted by Haxsaw
all these comments people are acting as if gay people have no control over their actions, pfft, then many who hold this opinion go onto say that it is not a defect....welllllll, sorry to say but if you cant control yourself, then yeah you have got a real problem, do straight people say they have no control over who/what/or what gender they have sex with? if they do then they need some help. Can you imagine a paedophile saying sorry Im just born that way I have no control over who I have sex with? would they get any compassion? plssss, they are not born that way, they willing choose to have sex with children, so lets drop the "oh I was born gay" rubbish, no you weren't, you were born human and chose to give up your right to reproduce and have sex with people of the same gender, deal with it and stop telling others you cant control your sexual preferences, otherwise you are admitting you have a defect, take your pick, this isn't involuntary or a survival mechanism, like breathing or eating, you don't need to be gay to survive. You choose to be gay, and the problem is not in the way you were born but in your actions.

I'm not a Christian but yes I believe God doesn't want you to be gay, so those trying to say they were born that way need to firstly step up and take some responsibility for your actions.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

a pedophile and a homo are not at all the same.... i'm not gay but that's a ridiculous comparison.

no its not, I don't think in any analogy what is being compared are exactly the same, so whats more ridiculous is your reply, and the fact you missed the point.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

Your assuming it's bad or evil... I'm assuming it's a natural proceed of some form or another. Your comparison is like me saying your no different the hitler cause he disagreed with people. Be honest... It's ok to assume others are evil for what they do with consenting adults in there own home. Until it's your kid..

clearly as a believer in GOD I do believe homosexuals are evil and have a serious problem they need to address, I want nothing to do with them and thank GOD they want nothing to do with me, but you're the one being biased here as that was not my point, let me spell out my point seeing as though you still dodged it in order to justify some homo's opinion that they were born like that, my point was that both a paedophile and a homosexual(and a straight person as I pointed out) all must take responsibility for who they have sex with as it is an act of free will, we don't do it involuntarily nor are we forced to do it. Therefore, a homosexual, peadophile, and a straight person cant blame who/what they CHOOSE to have sex with as an innate action.

In regards to your further attempt to side ball my point with your Hitler comment, I never said a gay person and a paedophile are "no different", don't be so obnoxious its not helping your cause or lack thereof, if you had of said that Hitler and I have something in common in that we both disagree with people then yes technicaly this would be an accurate statement(which you would also fall under), but unfortunately your ego seems to have surpassed your regard for any rationality on this matter, so try your theories on someone with not enough clues to see your forked tongue, leave me out of it.

edit on 21-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

You jumped your bigoted self in the thread. I didn't call you up and ask you to post lol.

And no a hormonal teenager barely has control over there selves sexually. Then there's the Sex addiction classes mainly filled with straight people. Just as examples of people who have a hard time chooseing who they have sex with because of chemical imbalances in the brain. I mean it's not like sex is a natural process for us like breathing or eating... wait oh yes it is. Add that in with the fact that just a couple days ago a study came out on CNN. Saying that apparently marriage is a pretty new concept for humans. The study showed based on our biology we were probably roving tribes or swingers.

Originally posted by artemisminion

So if it is decided before birth. Then it must have some benefit to mankind. Nothing else in nature is really wasted. So what other reason could it really be?

Why must it have a benefit or even why must it have been "decided". If someone is born with a low IQ do we say that we need low IQ people to fill the jobs that take little brain power? Do we also say that very high IQ people must be the result of need too?

Is there a benefit or need to a large number of abnormalities out there that people are born with? Gay is just one of these, and I don't call it abnormality in a negative sense since an IQ of 170 would also be one, but it is just a abnormality that affects a small percent of the population as a whole.

Is it a debilitating one, no, and we all see benefits to society from this in the form of gay characteristic that manifest to makeup what one would call a gay person.

In the end though to suggest there was some kind of decision, or an evolutionary purpose that we need is kind of far reaching.

reply to post by artemisminion

OK, I'm starting to see your point now between all the other robust opinions.

It seems to suggest some evolutionary function reinforces homosexuality and perhaps non-gender conformist behavior in a few individuals
I cannot argue against it as such.
Science is proposing such theories too.
For example, theories that a gay man has highly fertile female relatives.

Of course the most direct form of population control in some hunter-gatherer societies was infanticide, especially in leaner seasons.
Conceivably a man with a slightly feminized brain, but the potential strength of a man, might have been of great value while accompanying women and children on gathering forays.

Unfortunately, anthropology only took an interest in homosexuality or cross-gender behavior very recently.
By then many of the cultures were altered according to the whims of the anti-gay penal codes and missionaries, or even the hetero-sexist adventurism and expectations of the researchers themselves.
The fact that Balboa threw forty transvestites to his dogs when he entered Panama gives us an idea of how cultures were quickly taught to become "exclusively heterosexual".

Therefore it's very difficult to prove or disprove your theory.

I suppose in the past people performed some duties to their culture regardless of their personal wishes.
People were also married according to parental arrangements, not love or attraction.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by Haxsaw

 

So they are evil? I think your views are evil and backward, you and your ilks views are dying off I thank God for this, one day people will not care about other peoples sexuality and what a great day that will be.
It isn't about sex you know it is about love.
And you wonder why Religion is in decline.
Like the Beatles said.

edit on 21-7-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

yes I do think homosexuality is evil and I'm sure you have to think I'm backwards to reconcile your views on homosexuals, that's a given, unless you've totally lost your marbles.

"it isn't about sex you know its about love" ....tell that to your CREATOR on judgement day and see how you go, I look forward to hearing how you go with that one.

"and you wonder why religion is on the decline" .... ummmm lol, small reality check for you, islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and on top of that muslims have the highest birth rates in the world, so obviously math also is not one of your strong points, but I'm sure you wont let those facts get in the way of your dreams. zzzzz. Thank GOD homosexuals cant reproduce, GOD decided that for them long ago.

"like the beatles said" ........ ummm, i'll let you know when I care about a bunch of drug addicts.

sorry you had nothing of value to offer

You jumped your bigoted self in the thread. I didn't call you up and ask you to post lol.

And no a hormonal teenager barely has control over there selves sexually. Then there's the Sex addiction classes mainly filled with straight people. Just as examples of people who have a hard time chooseing who they have sex with because of chemical imbalances in the brain. I mean it's not like sex is a natural process for us like breathing or eating... wait oh yes it is. Add that in with the fact that just a couple days ago a study came out on CNN. Saying that apparently marriage is a pretty new concept for humans. The study showed based on our biology we were probably roving tribes or swingers.

edit on 21-7-2013 by artemisminion because: (no reason given)

the same can be said for yourself in regards to being a bigot towards those religious folk who believe homosexuality is a sin, but I'm sure you missed that too.

say what? "a homosexual teenager can barely control themselves sexually"....... wow, so they don't have control over themselves in regards to what straight people and peadophiles are held totally accountable for, then you need to 'fess' up and admit they have a real problem.

Those sex addiction classes filled mainly with straight people you are talking about are clearly people admitting they need help(not to mention the % of sodomites to straight people, anyway I'll bite), but under your misguided theories no sodomite would seek help if they were addicted to sex(sodomy addiction) because its "barely in their control"....you cant have your cake and eat it too, your head is spinning I'm sure.

As I stated, but you insist on trying to twist reality to suit your bigoted view point, sex is not an involuntary action, and eating is a necessity for survival, you're scooping the barrel by trying to equate sodomy as a necessity like eating or breathing, and I know you used the word "natural", but what's natural to one is not natural to another, that's mere perceptions there, would you say that killing is natural too, as many animals do it, and if not, are you are vegetarian or are you allowed to kill anything not human, and if so can you only kill for consumption of for territory and competitive reasons as animals naturally do too?. don't answer these as it will only bring you further form the points I've made, and considering you've basically missed them all even though they've been spelt out for you then it would be best to concentrate hard on the circles you've gone in so far. These points were merely an attempt to help you see that mentioning what is "natural" is null and void.

nothing but a big LOL, to anything CNN says, and apeism(theories that we came from apes) now faith in that is more backwards than most of the religions I've heard of.

all the best

reply to post by Darth_Prime


He's just jealous because he can't walk in heels! Hahaha!

I respect your theory but i think reasons of homosexuality are some thing else. beyond the religion & evolution.

[

the same can be said for yourself in regards to being a bigot towards those religious folk who believe homosexuality is a sin, but I'm sure you missed that too.

say what? "a homosexual teenager can barely control themselves sexually"....... wow, so they don't have control over themselves in regards to what straight people and peadophiles are held totally accountable for, then you need to 'fess' up and admit they have a real problem.

Those sex addiction classes filled mainly with straight people you are talking about are clearly people admitting they need help(not to mention the % of sodomites to straight people, anyway I'll bite), but under your misguided theories no sodomite would seek help if they were addicted to sex(sodomy addiction) because its "barely in their control"....you cant have your cake and eat it too, your head is spinning I'm sure.

As I stated, but you insist on trying to twist reality to suit your bigoted view point, sex is not an involuntary action, and eating is a necessity for survival, you're scooping the barrel by trying to equate sodomy as a necessity like eating or breathing, and I know you used the word "natural", but what's natural to one is not natural to another, that's mere perceptions there, would you say that killing is natural too, as many animals do it, and if not, are you are vegetarian or are you allowed to kill anything not human, and if so can you only kill for consumption of for territory and competitive reasons as animals naturally do too?. don't answer these as it will only bring you further form the points I've made, and considering you've basically missed them all even though they've been spelt out for you then it would be best to concentrate hard on the circles you've gone in so far. These points were merely an attempt to help you see that mentioning what is "natural" is null and void.

nothing but a big LOL, to anything CNN says, and apeism(theories that we came from apes) now faith in that is more backwards than most of the religions I've heard of.

all the best

edit on 22-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

Your right i am bigoted against racists, bigots and really bullies of all shapes and sizes.. I personally consider it a quality of mine. Once someone has shown there views to be based on bigotry its pretty much a switch that flips to where i ignore there opinion on the subject they are obviously biased toward. If you instantly go into a situation thinking other races, people, or groups are "off the top " inferior it blows your credibility on at least that subject.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by artemisminion

 

his is just speculation, but i'd be willing to bet money on it.

That would be because of population density. The average would be the same if that's taken into account.

Is homosexuality a form of popular control? Well a few studies have shown that homosexuality does increase as the population of any given species that exhibit does, but that could be again, proportional to the amount of whatever species is in the area.

Considering I don't think Nature knows how many humans are on the planet at any given time, I can't imagine it pre-selecting folk to be gay.

~Tenth

It might be interesting to look back through your family tree if you can, it could be generations back, and see if there was any kind of economic strife. For instance if you are Irish, African or Indian you may have had an ancestor that suffered through a famine.

I believe (I should verify but I'm being lazy) that studies have been done on how energy from food is stored and utilized in people who had ancestors affected by famine or too little to eat. This was an obesity study I believe but I wonder if there are other things that get encoded genetically during a person's lifetime. Anything encoded can be passed down. Why not some kind of population control. Food or water stressed female animals go into heat less, I don't think it's unreasonable that another biological function can happen where should there be offspring something happens to make sex non reproductive.

In other words, nature may not know how many humans are on the planet but our bodies know when our needs aren't being met, when that happens a gene might switch on or off.

Originally posted by artemisminion

[

the same can be said for yourself in regards to being a bigot towards those religious folk who believe homosexuality is a sin, but I'm sure you missed that too.

say what? "a homosexual teenager can barely control themselves sexually"....... wow, so they don't have control over themselves in regards to what straight people and peadophiles are held totally accountable for, then you need to 'fess' up and admit they have a real problem.

Those sex addiction classes filled mainly with straight people you are talking about are clearly people admitting they need help(not to mention the % of sodomites to straight people, anyway I'll bite), but under your misguided theories no sodomite would seek help if they were addicted to sex(sodomy addiction) because its "barely in their control"....you cant have your cake and eat it too, your head is spinning I'm sure.

As I stated, but you insist on trying to twist reality to suit your bigoted view point, sex is not an involuntary action, and eating is a necessity for survival, you're scooping the barrel by trying to equate sodomy as a necessity like eating or breathing, and I know you used the word "natural", but what's natural to one is not natural to another, that's mere perceptions there, would you say that killing is natural too, as many animals do it, and if not, are you are vegetarian or are you allowed to kill anything not human, and if so can you only kill for consumption of for territory and competitive reasons as animals naturally do too?. don't answer these as it will only bring you further form the points I've made, and considering you've basically missed them all even though they've been spelt out for you then it would be best to concentrate hard on the circles you've gone in so far. These points were merely an attempt to help you see that mentioning what is "natural" is null and void.

nothing but a big LOL, to anything CNN says, and apeism(theories that we came from apes) now faith in that is more backwards than most of the religions I've heard of.

all the best

edit on 22-7-2013 by Haxsaw because: (no reason given)

Your right i am bigoted against racists, bigots and really bullies of all shapes and sizes.. I personally consider it a quality of mine. Once someone has shown there views to be based on bigotry its pretty much a switch that flips to where i ignore there opinion on the subject they are obviously biased toward. If you instantly go into a situation thinking other races, people, or groups are "off the top " inferior it blows your credibility on at least that subject.

edit on 22-7-2013 by artemisminion because: (no reason given)

good to see you missed most of the points once again, or have now seen the light and aren't stupid enough to bury yourself deeper, but you still felt obliged to reply with some random rubbish to get further away from your misconceptions. Anyway, so you fight bigotry with bigotry, you lower yourself to the level of those you accuse of bigotry, that's fine with me if its fine with you, and your a bigot to all religious folk who think homosexuals degrade the society along with other sinners, but that's all warranted because you're right, and no-one else is right unless they totally agree with you, so you are as bad as those you accuse, but you unfortunately cant see it.

Getting back on topic, let me know when you can deal with the fact that homosexuals are clearly not born that way, they take that active choice at some stage of their life to give up their right to reproduce and go against almost every religion on earth, and attempting to pull the card of "its out of my control" is beyond lame. I'm 'straight' and I choose to have sex with the opposite sex, and actively choose NOT to have sex with men, animals, trees, and whatever else, yes its my choice, im responsible for my own actions, im not a pre-programmed drone trying to blame something else for my actions.